MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #3

[EyesofTheSouth]

I do not believe JW made drugs in high school. Where on earth would he make them? In the school lab?

I wonder if Caleb has a drug history.

JMO

Agree. And I can’t really figure out how they think he is getting his hands on illicit chemicals now, much less when he was in high school.

I can’t even imagine what materials and knowhow you would need to manufacture coke and fentanyl at home, much less the cost to do so. Unless you were running a distribution empire or working with one, how would it make sense versus hitting up your closest dealer?

 

[Rigatoni999]

I've read that it is laced with fentanyl to add to the weight.

JMO

No.

 

[Curious Me]

I appreciate your thoughts, @StarRemy8. I just don't believe if someone had coke on them that they wouldn't do it sooner, and not wait. They were partying, and if someone had coke, then they'd do it during the partying. People don't wait to do some coke until the party is over, IMO.

Of maybe they didn't have any coke until it came into their possession later, and that's when and why they did it so late in the night. Perhaps someone brought it over late? Or one went out and got some late? ​

Moo..no you are wrong there. Coke is expensive-ish. People are often very picky about who they share with.....moo

Ah, I'm not wrong, @nao. lol
MOO, nobody I ever knew sat around partying with coke in their pocket and didn't do it until after the party. I didn't say a thing about sharing or expense. My post is about the late night seemingly deadly lines or drugs that seemed to have shown up very late in the partying. All MOO though

ETA-- I also don't think the three men intended to go home right away, or were on their way home, and then did a bump of coke to drive home because they'd be all hyped up when they arrived home and wouldn't want that to be noticed by their families. Just a thought and that is definitely MOO.​

 

[10ofRods]

How much is 2 gm? More than a few grains of salt

My handy dandy digital kitchen scales say... (Products on hand)

•Mortons Table Salt - slightly less than a dime (one layer)
•Walnuts - 3 very tiny pieces
•Pepper- less than 1/2 dime size

Moo...mixed with Cocaine, easily a small "line" could be deadly, solid form a small piece.

In that example, it means that 2 mg of fentanyl would occupy the space of 5-7 individual grains of salt (it was given by the author as a visual metaphor, not a weight metaphor). Fentanyl and salt have different weights.

Fentanyl is powdery (and apparently, if even a little of the powder gets in one's nose, it can be quite dangerous - as in, invisible particles flying around a drug house could result in real problems for someone who breathes it in - even though it would be unlike salt - which btw, has big grains).

Fentanyl has very small grains. I have no clue how many actual molecules (basic unit) of fentanyl would equal 5 grains of salt in terms of visibility or weight, only that if you picture crushing a mere 6-7 individual grains of salt (the shape, not the scientific measurement), that's how much fentanyl MIGHT kill a person (some people obviously would take more).

If I crush 7 grains of salt, I get way less than an 1/8th of a teaspoon - barely enough to lightly coat the end of my little finger. If it were fentanyl (think of it as looking like powdered sugar), it would cover the same area of my finger - but it would not weigh the same as salt.

Your kitchen experiment is excellent. If you had a teaspoon of cocaine (I don't think there's a typical "line size" for cocaine, but a teaspoon is certainly an amount that I've seen cut out for use at parties) and you had the results of your crushed Morton salt, and you mixed the two - the salt would seem nearly invisible and probably not tastable either.

2g of fentanyl by weight is a LOT of fentanyl (and would be slightly less than half a teaspoon). From all this I conclude that people who do cut cocaine with fentanyl probably have no clue how much they're actually mixing in - but if they're putting 2g into a powder that will be consumed approximately 4 grams at a dose...sheesh...it could be 50/50 (is fentanyl really that cheap??)

 

[branmuffin]

Detectives are combing through the phones of the victims to reveal possible crucial clues from photos and exactly who each of them called in their final hours.
HIV scientist was known as 'The Chemist' in high school

The DM revels in accusing individuals based on spurious accounts from questionable sources.

 

[10ofRods]

I’m fairly confident that they all thought they were only getting coke. Being laced with fentanyl is always a risk, of course, but I really think most people figure it won’t happen to them.

It’s also likely that they have a regular source that they buy from. If there’s never been a problem up until that point, they probably wouldn’t really think there was a risk.

Although 850 fentanyl deaths in Kansas City (population of the city itself is 150,000, I think - and this data was for the region, which probably has around 500,000 people). You'd think people would be aware. I think that many of these decisions take place in an alcohol-suffused environment, as well.

That data is apparently from 2020 onward (I posted the Kansas City Star link a couple of hours ago).

Whew - was able to find it again:

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article281002308.html

 

[branmuffin]

They ALL came after the game was over, according to everything I'm reading. The 3 friends arrived just after the game was over (time for celebration!) Then the fifth guy came over somewhat later.

Cocaine *does* help with alertness/acuity. My first study of the drug was among surgical residents and surgeons at a major hospital (and I have interviewed other doctors who specialize in the treatment of cocaine-addicted doctors). Indeed, many of these doctors continued to use under supervision of other doctors (cocaine is, after all, a prescribable drug). It's schedule II.

I don't think the four men watched the game together (they may have watched segments of it that were recorded, of course). I've known many people at parties where they did a bump right before going out the door to drive, actually.

If your theory is right, then the men probably didn't know their coke was laced with fentanyl (in which case it is indeed question about who brought it, when it began to be used, etc - maybe they did several lines of coke at around midnight - and it was laced with tiny amounts of fentanyl - either through cross-contamination by drug dealers packaging and weighing or for some other purpose).

So many weird things to think about - but fentanyl is definitely a major death-dealer in the US.


If so, since it only takes an amount equivalent to a mere 5 grains of salt to produce death (and the weight of that amount if tiny), people must be adding HUGE amounts of fentanyl (but why? why not...cornstarch? arrowroot powder? Like in the good old days? even crushed salt! none of those would be lethal or psychoactive and would be way less expensive and add weight).

I too keep turning that question over and over. So far, I like the addiction theory (get people inadvertently addicted to opiates). Since only some people respond (but respond strongly) to the addictive/high aspects of opiates, they might go back to the same dealer to get the cocaine that suddenly they want even more of, than usual. Maybe it makes people take more lines? Chasing the opiate high?

I really have no clue.

What is the logic behind cocaine being a Schedule II drug in the US but cannabis is Schedule I?

 

[MyBelle]

No.

Yes. I have no reason not to believe this source.

JMO
Link:

Fentanyl-Laced Weed: What You Should Know | Avenues Recovery

Fentanyl-laced weed can be a silent killer. Avenues Recovery explains what it is and how to tell if weed is laced with fentanyl.

www.avenuesrecovery.com

Fentanyl laced weed is a term used for marijuana that has been mixed or ‘laced’ with some fentanyl. People want to know why drugs are laced with fentanyl. The answer is that this is commonly done to heighten the short-term pleasures that are felt after ingesting marijuana, or in order to profit more from the amount of marijuana sold, when it is sold by the weight.

 

[Curious Me]

One thing we don't know is that the three were actually going directly home. We've heard they "left" at midnight or 2am. Who's to say they weren't planning to hang out somewhere else for a while? Bar, one of their homes, someone else's home, etc. It makes more sense to me that they weren't done partying then if they took a hit to wake up to drive home.​

That's what I think too. They weren't done partying. I just want to know why the deadly drugs showed up so late or how it came to be they were able to do some without succumbing to the toxicity earlier? I realize there's no way we can know at this time. ​

 

[MyBelle]

Although 850 fentanyl deaths in Kansas City (population of the city itself is 150,000, I think - and this data was for the region, which probably has around 500,000 people). You'd think people would be aware. I think that many of these decisions take place in an alcohol-suffused environment, as well.

That data is apparently from 2020 onward (I posted the Kansas City Star link a couple of hours ago).

Whew - was able to find it again:

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article281002308.html

Kansas City has a metro area of 2.2 million people.

JMO

Kansas City metropolitan area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[10ofRods]

What is the logic behind cocaine being a Schedule II drug in the US but cannabis is Schedule I?

I guess that somehow (despite major recognition that cannabis does have medical uses), it's the "lack of medical use" that got cannabis in Schedule 1. Our two houses of legislators in D.C. have promised to address this, but, well, I am not optimistic that I'll live to see them do that.

Cocaine and morphine have a long history of medical use, so are schedule II (along with oxycodone and fentanyl). Meth is Schedule II as well. Apparently their "potential for addiction" was perceived as less, back when the schedule system arose. Makes no sense, of course.

Heroin and cannabis have "no known medical use and high potential for addiction." So odd, really.

 

[MyBelle]

Ah, I'm not wrong, @nao. lol
MOO, nobody I ever knew sat around partying with coke in their pocket and didn't do it until after the party. I didn't say a thing about sharing or expense. My post is about the late night seemingly deadly lines or drugs that seemed to have shown up very late in the partying. All MOO though

ETA-- I also don't think the three men intended to go home right away, or were on their way home, and then did a bump of coke to drive home because they'd be all hyped up when they arrived home and wouldn't want that to be noticed by their families. Just a thought and that is definitely MOO.​

The reason could be that JW did not want illegal drugs used in his home or in his presence.

JMO

 

[StarRemy8]

Ah, I'm not wrong, @nao. lol
MOO, nobody I ever knew sat around partying with coke in their pocket and didn't do it until after the party. I didn't say a thing about sharing or expense. My post is about the late night seemingly deadly lines or drugs that seemed to have shown up very late in the partying. All MOO though

ETA-- I also don't think the three men intended to go home right away, or were on their way home, and then did a bump of coke to drive home because they'd be all hyped up when they arrived home and wouldn't want that to be noticed by their families. Just a thought and that is definitely MOO.​

No one I ever knew did either...it would only be later if you couldnt get it until then or decided to later but again who knows just an observation. And yes, I agree they might not have been on their way home but if they were to just do a small amount that could just cut the 12+ hours drinking/smoking down a bit at that point it would not hype them up as much as make them feel/appear not as drunk or high for a quick ride home. TMK we also still dont even know if these men lived with roommates, significant others or alone.

Another poster mentioned similarly saying they would do a small amount before driving home from late night bar shifts just to "sober" up a bit so my mind went there considering they were said to allegedly had left JWs and that JW was going to bed. So many ?s that I feel we will never have answers to other than three men, most likely having a grand old time with their team winning and plans to go with JW to the next wild game are no longer with us. Such a shame.

 

[fsngruv]

Yes. I have no reason not to believe this source.

JMO
Link:

Fentanyl-Laced Weed: What You Should Know | Avenues Recovery

Fentanyl-laced weed can be a silent killer. Avenues Recovery explains what it is and how to tell if weed is laced with fentanyl.

www.avenuesrecovery.com

Fentanyl laced weed is a term used for marijuana that has been mixed or ‘laced’ with some fentanyl. People want to know why drugs are laced with fentanyl. The answer is that this is commonly done to heighten the short-term pleasures that are felt after ingesting marijuana, or in order to profit more from the amount of marijuana sold, when it is sold by the weight.

"in order to profit more from the amount of marijuana sold, when it is sold by the weight"

Marijuana is heavier than a powdery substance like fentanyl. That's why it is weighed in pounds. It would take a lot more fentanyl to equal the volume vs the weight of marijuana.

 

[NCWatcher]

What is the logic behind cocaine being a Schedule II drug in the US but cannabis is Schedule I?

I don't know why cannabis hasn't been taken off Schedule 1 except that it's still illegal federally and not officially recognized as medically useful at that level. It makes sense cocaine couldn't be on Schedule 1 as it does have accepted medical uses (like nasal surgery.)

The schedules used in the Controlled Substances Act are problematic anyway IMO.
MOO

 

[10ofRods]

Kansas City has a metro area of 2.2 million people.

JMO

Kansas City metropolitan area - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not sure if they used "metro area" or not. But probably. I think the article says "parts of 9 counties."

When I try to google it, I get different numbers of counties (up to 15). So I have no way of knowing what population produced the data in that article - but it does seem to be based on some kind of Drug Task Force/DEA project based in and reported in Kansas CIty (where I assume most residents have heard of the Star and some must surely have heard of the fentanyl issue?)

Which was my point. My guess is that the data are solely from the MO side of Kansas City (still can't figure out how many counties that is - but article says "parts of" 9 counties in MO were analyzed.

Article was written in Fall 2023 - so the number is higher now.

 

[MyBelle]

"in order to profit more from the amount of marijuana sold, when it is sold by the weight"

Marijuana is heavier than a powdery substance like fentanyl. That's why it is weighed in pounds. It would take a lot more fentanyl to equal the weight of marijuana.

That's even scarier. Isn't the point of lacing so the dealer can reduce the amount of marijuana so that the profit is greater? I think it also is a moot point in this case because I believe all the men smoked the marijuana and it was the cocaine that was laced with fentanyl.

JMO

 

[Leilei]

I doubt those who lace the drugs know what amount is lethal. Those who use them recreationally are taking a very large risk. I hope your friends reconsider their choices.

JMO

BBM. If LE doesn't have 5's phone they most certainly know his number. And the phone provider will provide call detail but sometimes that can take a couple of weeks.

JMO

Wouldn't they need a warrant for that, though? Number 5 pretty much went off the grid once he was named, and hired an attorney IIRC, which has me side-eyeing him somewhat. IMO.

 

[Peppery]

Wouldn't they need a warrant for that, though? Number 5 pretty much went off the grid once he was named, and hired an attorney IIRC, which has me side-eyeing him somewhat. IMO.

If there are texts or calls between #5's phone and either of the three or JW discussing drugs or purchases, I think that would be enough to get a warrant for #5's phone. IMO.

ETA: I believe LE has JW's phone but if not the same would apply to getting a warrant for it.

 

[fsngruv]

That's even scarier. Isn't the point of lacing so the dealer can reduce the amount of marijuana so that the profit is greater? I think it also is a moot point in this case because I believe all the men smoked the marijuana and it was the cocaine that was laced with fentanyl.

JMO

It only takes trace amounts of fentanyl to be deadly, it just really wouldn't make sense mathematically to use it to weigh anything down.

You're absolutely right it's a moot point! I agree with your point and it is a great reason to move on from the subject!!

Ebm: also, just because they all had thc in their system doesn't necessarily mean they all consumed it that evening, after all, it stays in the system (blood ,urine, hair) much longer than the other drugs found in their system. Though it's not a leap to assume they did.