MO - Grand Jury Proceedings in the shooting case of teen Michael Brown#2

[reedus23]

I disagree that if he was arrested at this point, it would not violate his due process rights.


Se Below, from wiki:


[edit]
Main article: Due Process Clause
The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a Due Process Clause. Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the Due Process Clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the Government outside the sanction of law.[17] The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the Clauses as providing four protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings), substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws, and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.



If the rumors are correct about the forensics backing his story, then it would be a violation of his due process if he were arrested at this point.

The only 'evidence' that Crump and the family keep pointing to are the various witnesses who say his hands were up. But they only saw the end of the incident, and not the start. So they missed the context and the initial attack. jmo

Ok, let me restate it...based only on the evidence that we are aware of as fact, there would be no due process concerns with an arrest. If they have other evidence that negates guilt, it could obviously change that story. You may disagree with the witness statements but we don't have much more known evidence at this point beyond the witness statements, some video after the fact at the scene and I suppose the robbery video. Going only off of what we know, I don't think it comes any where even remotely close to a due process violation. I just don't think it's necessary at this point and they obviously likely do have other evidence that does negate guilt.

 

[reedus23]

"The Cardinals spokesperson says authorities will do what is necessary to make sure everything stays peaceful and not disruptive. As part of that effort, a tighter security perimeter is being established along Clark Street in front of Ballpark Village. People will need a ticket to the game to be in that area starting four hours before the game. That was also in effect for the World Series last year and will be the norm for the playoffs this year Fans will also face wanding, bag checks and some magnetometers going into Busch tonight. The Cardinals also tell us bomb sniffing dogs will be at the stadium as well." [fox2-StL]

So other than possibly some additional officers, it sounds like security is no different than it ever is for post season play.

 

[reedus23]

IMO they knew that they were violating people's constitutional rights and knew this ruling was coming. That's why they preemptively (before this ruling) came out and said they would not be enforcing any "5 second" rule and the County told them recently that they could stand there as long as it's not in the street.

I am sure some of the claims will end up lacking merit, but this ruling makes me believe that there will also be some claims that do have merit in the lawsuit that was filed over the arrests.

 

[katydid23]

Ok, let me restate it...based only on the evidence that we are aware of as fact, there would be no due process concerns with an arrest. If they have other evidence that negates guilt, it could obviously change that story. You may disagree with the witness statements but we don't have much more known evidence at this point beyond the witness statements, some video after the fact at the scene and I suppose the robbery video. Going only off of what we know, I don't think it comes any where even remotely close to a due process violation. I just don't think it's necessary at this point and they obviously likely do have other evidence that does negate guilt.

If there were no other evidence that corroborated the officers story, imo, he would be in :jail: already.

 

[BJS]

So you would agree that FPD, County PD and the State Patrol should be held accountable for violating basic constitutional rights? If so, I am 100% in agreement.

I think everyone needs to be held accountable. Me. You. Michael Brown. FPD. And on and on. Our society changed in such a way that we no longer hold anyone or any entity accountable or responsible for much of anything. We've lowered our standards across the board. Does this mean I think FPD/Wilson was/is irresponsible in this incident. No, I do not! But, if that police department or that officer did something wrong, then they do need to be held accountable for it. However, the same is true for Michael Brown, and for those protestors who have decided Michael Brown will be their excuse for the acting out and violence we've witnessed the past 58 days.

 

[SwampMama]

Nyquil contains diphenhydramine, which is tested for in tox reports.

Nyquil also has DXM which is usually tested for as well since many people use it recreationally.

 

[BJS]

Latest post from Dissonant Winston Smith, a StL metro police officer:

https://dissonantwinstonsmith.wordpress.com/2014/10/05/topical-3-0/

This is always so well done! Bravo, again, Dissonant! And for anyone out there who thinks LE are nothing more than <mod snip>....LOL. This person is wonderful!

 

[krimekat]

So other than possibly some additional officers, it sounds like security is no different than it ever is for post season play.

well, it's the 1st year for BallPark Village expecting >35K people -- it is a spectacular place IMHO -- and there's extra security down there

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/06/ballpark-village-prepared-for-cardinal-playoff-crowd/

 

[BJS]

well, it's the 1st year for BallPark Village expecting >35K people -- it is a spectacular place IMHO -- and there's extra security down there

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/10/06/ballpark-village-prepared-for-cardinal-playoff-crowd/

Good luck to your Boys In Red! Ya'll need some serious football back in the Lou! And rhyme
with that: Go Boys In Blue!
LOL

OT/Missouri folks just jawin some!

 

[BJS]

Does Websleuths ever do any polls in the threads? Something members can log in and vote on?

 

[katydid23]

Does Websleuths ever do any polls in the threads? Something members can log in and vote on?

yep. There are polls.

 

[teedie2]

I believe the worst thing for a parent is to bury a child, but I hope MB connections get zero $ if/when they file civil suits. They have done next to nothing to calm tensions, condoning unrest. Their attorney knows the law (I hope) and calling for special prosecutor isn't legal at this time and would open a whole can of worms re:some past cases prosecuted by present office. I have a low opinion of how he is advising his clients.

I feel Ferguson has handled this so poorly. They are getting hit with brutality lawsuits regardless-that doesn't mean they overstepped their boundaries. There are two ways to be arrested, the easy way and the hard way and it's your choice depending on how YOU react. I wish city had nipped all civil disobedience acts in bud earlier. Protesters have gotten ticket clemency, disrupted events, affected businesses , terrorized locals and threats of you ain't seen nothing yet.

Absolutely right. And no one making these decisions saw it coming!! ? Where are their brains?

Chit, they should have asked us. We could have told them!

 

[Lovejac]

"The Cardinals spokesperson says authorities will do what is necessary to make sure everything stays peaceful and not disruptive. As part of that effort, a tighter security perimeter is being established along Clark Street in front of Ballpark Village. People will need a ticket to the game to be in that area starting four hours before the game. That was also in effect for the World Series last year and will be the norm for the playoffs this year Fans will also face wanding, bag checks and some magnetometers going into Busch tonight. The Cardinals also tell us bomb sniffing dogs will be at the stadium as well." [fox2-StL]

Another article said Metrolink would be adding additional trains and officers on board, at stations, and at parking lots fans use.

Wow, yep, it seems like they are taking heed to the rumors of protesters. I'm glad!

 

[Lovejac]

So he's another armchair quarterback that is trying to insert himself into the case. He can get the you know what out of my state and city as well. I really wonder how this would have all played out if outsiders weren't allowed in (means CNN too) and only real media reported on this instead of internet wannabe's like this guy.

The beauty of it is that he's not even in that state. :giggle: that's one of the reasons everyone is so mad. He has much better video than all the self proclaimed Iphone media folks.

 

[reedus23]

I think everyone needs to be held accountable. Me. You. Michael Brown. FPD. And on and on. Our society changed in such a way that we no longer hold anyone or any entity accountable or responsible for much of anything. We've lowered our standards across the board. Does this mean I think FPD/Wilson was/is irresponsible in this incident. No, I do not! But, if that police department or that officer did something wrong, then they do need to be held accountable for it. However, the same is true for Michael Brown, and for those protestors who have decided Michael Brown will be their excuse for the acting out and violence we've witnessed the past 58 days.

Well I'd say MB has been held accountable by OW in the most serious way possible. I do agree though that all need to be held accountable. FPD. OW. County. State. Looters. Rioters. Instigators. I'm not going to say protesters because protesting is legal, but if they cross the line into criminal behavior, then yes. Although even there, the punishment should fit the crime and be consistently applied across the board. If any single person was arrested for being in the street and held for 24 hours then every single person that is in the streets IF the Cards clinch in St. Louis need to be arrested and held for 24 hours. Once laws begin being applied arbitrarily and unevenly, that's where problems arise like those present in north county.

 

[BJS]

Wow, yep, it seems like they are taking heed to the rumors of protesters. I'm glad!

Any cellie <mod snip> over there doing video?

 

[reedus23]

Good luck to your Boys In Red! Ya'll need some serious football back in the Lou! And rhyme
with that: Go Boys In Blue!
LOL

OT/Missouri folks just jawin some!

We got serious football here. It's the Missouri Tigers though. haha

As for the boys in blue, I'm pulling for the Royals too. My favorite AL team.

 

[BJS]

Well I'd say MB has been held accountable by OW in the most serious way possible. I do agree though that all need to be held accountable. FPD. OW. County. State. Looters. Rioters. Instigators. I'm not going to say protesters because protesting is legal, but if they cross the line into criminal behavior, then yes. Although even there, the punishment should fit the crime and be consistently applied across the board. If any single person was arrested for being in the street and held for 24 hours then every single person that is in the streets IF the Cards clinch in St. Louis need to be arrested and held for 24 hours. Once laws begin being applied arbitrarily and unevenly, that's where problems arise like those present in north county.

Mostly, I agree with you. To clarify, I say protestors because to say what I'd really like to call them would get me back into the dog doo-doo. I was a protestor at one time. And we were legal. I'm not against that at all. these guys? Not so legal. You don't win the game or get people to listen to your cause by pizzing on café windows (or pizzing into bottles and throwing it at people), random shooting, issuing death threats and some of this other stuff that is way off the rails. You can call street prowlers yelling threats anything you want to call them, I call them terrorists....and not legal protestors.

 

[reedus23]

The beauty of it is that he's not even in that state. :giggle: that's one of the reasons everyone is so mad. He has much better video than all the self proclaimed Iphone media folks.

I tried watching him once (if it's the guy I'm thinking of) but it had like 3 screens open on it. I could mute him so I didn't have to hear him, but the 3 screens annoys me. Kind of like I bough a dang TV with PIP back in the day but then never used it because all it does is end up in me not watching either one. Guess I need to learn to multi task better. lol

 

[BJS]

We got serious football here. It's the Missouri Tigers though. haha

As for the boys in blue, I'm pulling for the Royals too. My favorite AL team.

You betcha! We're 4-1 in the SEC....Who woulda thunk it? LOL