MO - Grief and protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown

[liljim]

IMHO there are never going to be clear answers in this case. The police can't back off of their statement that he struggled for the gun. I would expect all of the eye witnesses won't back off of their version that there was no struggle for the gun. It will be a case of which side does each individual choose to believe.

what is unfortunately going to happen in this case is in my opinion what you see happen in most cases, a small amount of people will try to get to the facts of the case and their opinion can and will change about the details as they come out. large numbers of people will have their minds made up very early on and their opinion will never change no matter what evidence may surface.

rinse/repeat.

 

[JeannaT]

the friend has never said there was no physical confrontation, what he has said is;

the officer put his hands on michael thru the window.
michael aggressively tried to get free of the officer.
at no time did he see michael try to get the officers gun.
in short order the officers gun was out and he threatened to shoot and then actually shot seconds later.

other than the officers statements that we have heard so far do you have any single other thing to suggest there was a physical confrontation other than what witnesses have described?

Do you believe that? When you look at Michael Brown's size, do you believe a cop could have had access, while sitting in his car, to grab Michael by the neck if Michael weren't engaged in a confrontation of his own initiative? I can't picture a cop, seated in a cop car could have access to the neck of that very tall young man if the man wasn't already virtually inside his car. He wasn't walking down the street when that altercation happened - he was leaning into the car.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

The police say the officer shot Brown after the teen shoved the officer and tried to wrestle the officer’s gun from him. But a number of witnesses, including Johnson, refute those claims. And in the wake of the shooting, the Ferguson Police Department has asked the St. Louis County police to step in and take over the investigation.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

the friend has never said there was no physical confrontation, what he has said is;

the officer put his hands on michael thru the window.
michael aggressively tried to get free of the officer.
at no time did he see michael try to get the officers gun.
in short order the officers gun was out and he threatened to shoot and then actually shot seconds later.

other than the officers statements that we have heard so far do you have any single other thing to suggest there was a physical confrontation other than what witnesses have described?

RBBM I wonder if that statement means that MB hit the officer in the face.

Chief: Officer in fatal shooting sustained facial injuries

http://www.kmov.com/special-coverag...oting-suffered-facial-injuries-271079471.html

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Dorian Johnson said he was standing inches from Brown when the shooting occurred around 1:40 p.m. Saturday. He gave his account of the shooting to KSDK-TV.

"The officer is approaching us and as he pulled up on the side of us, he didn't say freeze, halt or anything like we were committing a crime. He said, 'Get the F on the sidewalk.'

After Johnson said the officer thrust open the door of his patrol car, hitting the pair, Johnson said the officer grabbed Brown around the neck and tried to pull him through the window. He said Brown never tried to reach for the officer's weapon.
"The second time he says, 'I'll shoot,' a second later the gun went off and he let go," Johnson said. "That's how we were able to run at the same time. The first car I see, I ducked behind for because I fear for my life. I'm scared. I don't know what's going on. I don't understand why this officer is shooting his weapon at us."

According to Johnson, the officer pursued Brown and fired another shot. which struck Brown in the back. He said Brown turned and faced the officer with his hands raised.

"My friend started to tell the officer that he was unarmed and that he could stop shooting (him)," Johnson said. "Before he could get his second sentence out, the officer fired several more shots into his head and chest area. He fell dramatically into the fatal position. I did not hear once he yell freeze, stop or halt. it was just horrible to watch."

Johnson said he could tell Brown was in pain after the shooting.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...uson-missouri-teen-shooting-witness/13992387/

Video of Dorian Johnson speaking at the link..

 

[Sonya610]

“Get the **** on the sidewalk.” That is how it all started.

Not sure about the rest of you but I have received a couple of traffic violations (speeding tickets) in my life.

I would have been VERY happy if the officer had SCREAMED out the window of his cruiser "Slow the Fu** down!!!"

I would NOT have thought "That police officer just disrespected me, who is he to tell me to slow down!".

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

The police say the officer shot Brown after the teen shoved the officer and tried to wrestle the officer’s gun from him. But a number of witnesses, including Johnson, refute those claims. And in the wake of the shooting, the Ferguson Police Department has asked the St. Louis County police to step in and take over the investigation.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Not sure about the rest of you but I have received a couple of traffic violations (speeding tickets) in my life.

I would have been VERY happy if the officer had SCREAMED out the window of his cruiser "Slow the Fu** down!!!"

I would NOT have thought "That police officer just disrespected me, who is he to tell me to slow down!".

That is not how they are to approach citizens, you might not be offended by it but I certainly was..

it's all in the approach, if they can't come up to me in a respectful manner, I too am not respectful. maybe all need better communication skills when dealing with the public..

 

[reedus23]

The quote I was reading this morning said a bystander (I believe an older black gentleman) said there was a physical confrontation with the officer within the car and Michael Brown was outside of the car, (then presumedly is when the gun went off inside the car) and then Michael Brown was backing away with his hands in the air when he was shot multiple times. I think that's how it's going to turn out, in the final analysis. The verbal confrontation telling the young men to get out of the roadway, then Michael Brown went for his gun, the gun went off, and in the rage of the incident the cop shot him several times even though at that very moment he was no longer wrestling for the gun. The friend who was walking with him indicated that there was no physical confrontation whatsoever, which I believe is a lie.

Do you know where I can read that? I don't think I've seen that. Just based on what you are saying, I don't know if it's consistent with Brown going for his gun. If he's outside of the car it's more consistent with the other witnesses that say the cop opened the door, door hits Brown and closes back on cop, cop reaches through window to grab Brown, Brown struggling to break free as cop shoots him from inside the car, Brown freeing himself and flleeing 35 feet away before more shots are fired and he stops, puts hands up, turns around and is shot more.

The only way I can see it construed as a struggle for the gun is, I guess if the cop pulled the gun on Brown as he was holding him, and while in the process of trying to break free also tried to grab the gun or knock it away but that begs the question of why did he pull the gun in the first place. I guess I was just always under the impression that the struggle for the gun occurred while holstered still. It's possible I guess that the cop felt that jaywalking and whatever words were said required him to pull his gun out. Help me out. I'm truly trying to picture a scenario that makes sense where there is a struggle for the gun if Brown is outside the vehicle.

 

[liljim]

Do you believe that? When you look at Michael Brown's size, do you believe a cop could have had access, while sitting in his car, to grab Michael by the neck if Michael weren't engaged in a confrontation of his own initiative? I can't picture a cop, seated in a cop car could have access to the neck of that very tall young man if the man wasn't already virtually inside his car. He wasn't walking down the street when that altercation happened - he was leaning into the car.

there is an suv on scene in the immediate aftermath, do you know that it was a car and not an suv?
the witness says the cop pulled up right next to them almost hitting them, the car door could barely open before hitting them and closing, so they are very close to the vehicle.
how big is the cop?
if michael did lean towards the car could it have been to simply speak to the officer?
is there any reason to speculate that this is the kind of kid who would attack a police officer and try to take his weapon from him?
is there any evidence he was a very passive, friendly, peaceful kid?
how about the cop, what is his history?
is a claim of "he tried to get my weapon" known to be a get out of charges free card for any officer involved shooting?

i got a million of 'em...

the evidence that is avaiable right now casts much doubt on the officers version of what happened. maybe that will change when they decide to release more information...

 

[popsicle]

It was stated on CNN that tox was being done on the Officer which is standard op procedure.

 

[reedus23]

I bet no tox was done on the officer..

It was. I don't say that because I know in this case, but I feel safe in saying it would go against what has happened in most every other officer involved shooting in the area. Whether we ever find out is another story.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

RBBM I wonder if that statement means that MB hit the officer in the face.

Chief: Officer in fatal shooting sustained facial injuries

http://www.kmov.com/special-coverag...oting-suffered-facial-injuries-271079471.html

It could have been the car door. He flung it aggressively open only to fling back to him...I think this is what angered him even more...he walked up to Mike Brown while his hands were up and emptied his weapon into his body...

And all this is to justify the officers actions...I do hope DOJ/FBI see the inconsistencies and this officer could find himself under arrest..

 

[liljim]

RBBM I wonder if that statement means that MB hit the officer in the face.

Chief: Officer in fatal shooting sustained facial injuries

http://www.kmov.com/special-coverag...oting-suffered-facial-injuries-271079471.html

it definitely could mean that, whether it was intentional or unintentional is unknown.

what a strange situation that would be tho no? a cop tells two kids to get out of the street then comes back to confront them and the kids response, who by all accounts is a particularly peaceful kid, his resposne is to attack the officer and try to take his weapon.

how common is that by the way, unarmed teens attacking police officers and trying to take their guns... even in the worst crime areas i would imagine this situation is exceedingly rare.

 

[liljim]

It could have been the car door. He flung it aggressively open only to fling back to him...I think this is what angered him even more...he walked up to Mike Brown while his hands were up and emptied his weapon into his body...

And all this is to justify the officers actions...I do hope DOJ/FBI see the inconsistencies and this officer could find himself under arrest..

if this officer sticks to his story that michael assaulted him and tried to take his weapon there will be no charges filed unless they can patently prove those things false (unlikely, witnesses wont cut it) or if michael was shot in the back.

my opinion. will be happy to be wrong if in fact the officer is guilty of something here.

 

[liljim]

It could have been the car door. He flung it aggressively open only to fling back to him...I think this is what angered him even more...he walked up to Mike Brown while his hands were up and emptied his weapon into his body...

And all this is to justify the officers actions...I do hope DOJ/FBI see the inconsistencies and this officer could find himself under arrest..

good point, could have been the car door, possibly forensics can help in determining that.

 

[reedus23]

Not sure about the rest of you but I have received a couple of traffic violations (speeding tickets) in my life.

I would have been VERY happy if the officer had SCREAMED out the window of his cruiser "Slow the Fu** down!!!"

I would NOT have thought "That police officer just disrespected me, who is he to tell me to slow down!".

I have a basketball hoop set up so my kid can shoot baskets in the street. He walks in the street. He runs in the street. He rides his bike in the street. He rides his scooter in the street. He plays catch in the street. If a cop came by and told him to "Get the Fu** out of the street!" I would be pretty pissed off that the cop spoke to my kid like that. I can't say that I would have gone down to city hall to file a complaint, but yes, not only would I think the cop was being disrespectful to my kid but was abusing the power that comes with a badge. I would suggest that that cop needed classes on how to interact with citizens. I would suggest that he is not acting in a manner that is consistent with how I would like to see our civil servants acting.

 

[popsicle]

It will be telling to see how consistent all these stories are.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

if this officer sticks to his story that michael assaulted him and tried to take his weapon there will be no charges filed unless they can patently prove those things false (unlikely, witnesses wont cut it) or if michael was shot in the back.

my opinion. will be happy to be wrong if in fact the officer is guilty of something here.

I read from the witness DJ that he was shot in the back. Then as the officer emptied his weapon, he was also shot in the head. They have not released how many times this officer shot Mike Brown, his mother claimed she was told 8 times. Now, if someone is putting their hands up, getting down on his knees, why the need to empty his weapon and kill this young man? He should've arrested him and take him into custody. I still dont' understand why walking in the street made this officer so damn angry and aggressive in the first place..

 

[Sonya610]

it's all in the approach, if they can't come up to me in a respectful manner, I too am not respectful. maybe all need better communication skills when dealing with the public..

Uhhh...really?

Good luck with that.