MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #10

[Ladylub]

Well, personally I don't think MB is "completely innocent." He made some bad choices. I just don't think he deserved to die from them. Police should only shoot a suspect as a last resort. Given this and the other recent incident nearby with the guy who stole the snacks and was also shot to death, I think police in that area are too quick to shoot suspects rather than using other methods to subdue/arrest them.

Are you talking about the guy who had a knife? When we watch the video we get to see how the man is acting right before police get there. We have extra seconds to look at the situation and we do not have a man standing right in front of us holding the knife. Police have seconds to decide if this is a real threat. Police had been threatened nearby so they were already on high alert. Watching the full video I think he may have been able to be talk down but I had the luxury of those seconds leading up to police arriving to help make my decision.

 

[krimekat]

wait, I thought former F'son mayor Bosley (the guy on the right) was DJ's atty ("MB's friend's atty")

Freeman Bosley Jr was the mayor of the City of StL, not Ferguson

and yes, he is representing DJ

 

[jmcgladr]

In the second incident, I believe the suspect had a knife. I've seen the video and the officers and the suspect are within feet of each other. Are you familiar with the Tueller Drill? 21 Foot Rule - The 21 foot rule states that the average person with a knife or sword can get to and cut a person in about the same time that the average person can draw and fire a handgun.

I watched the whole video. The man who supposedly had a knife (not visible in the video) was threatening no one. He was walking fairly close to/parallel to the police car and was ignoring commands, but he was on the other side of a low concrete barrier and was not advancing on police or threatening them in any way. He told police to shoot him with his hands in the air. He clearly seemed mentally ill to me.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

That's no reason to not even TRY the taser, IMO! It sounds like the officer in the case you described acted properly. MB did not have a gun, edged weapon or anything else pointed at OW.

Officers are trained to never lose possession of their gun; for the safety of themselves & the community. It is a huge infraction if it is "lost" not even in the line of duty.
If a suspect attempts to gain control of an officer's gun (as it has been alleged in MB's case) that is a game changer.....no officer in their right mind during that type of altercation would think to use a TASER in the heat of the moment. Remember also, MB weighed almost 300lb and had illegal substance(s) in his blood.
A TASER would have been an extremely poor decision & probably cost the officer his life at that time.
Moo

 

[bettybaby00]

I didn't save links, I'll try and google again, but a search for "when use of deadly force is justified," there were references that even the threat of an unarmed person can be justified depending on the circumstances at that particular moment.

Also, links have previously been posted re: the Supreme Court decision on this, and Rehnquist's ruling speaks to this and also adds how 20/20 hindsight can't be a contributing factor when determining whether or not a shooting is justified.

I'll look for links again.

Quoting myself

The Graham decision found that an officer's use of force should be considered on the facts of each case. Officers are to weigh the seriousness of the crime, whether the suspect poses a threat to the safety of police or others and whether the suspect is trying to resist arrest.

"The 'reasonableness' of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight," Rehnquist wrote.

Officers are to be judged by those standards even if things look different to people who weren't involved.

"What a police officer, what she perceives at the moment of application of force, may seem very different in the hard light of the following Monday morning," said Ken Wallentine, a recently retired police chief and former law professor in Utah. "And there's the rub."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ORCE?SITE=MOSTP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

 

[jmcgladr]

I believe the poster is referring to the threats on Officer Wilson's life, such as:

"Bacon is the only justice I get...that's pig in a frying pan."

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/filmthepoliceportland

Um, that's a rather off-color comment, but it's not a direct threat on anyone's life!

 

[LambChop]

Stand Your Ground Laws:

Many states have enacted so-called stand your ground laws that remove the duty to retreat before using force in self-defense. Florida passed the first such law in 2005, generally allowing people to stand their ground instead of retreating if they reasonably believe doing so will "prevent death or great bodily harm." - See more at: http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimina...nd-your-ground-laws.html#sthash.OOtry85z.dpuf


http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/states-that-have-stand-your-ground-laws.html

 

[krimekat]

I don't live anywhere NEAR Ferguson and I'm peeved at this. I'm a nonviolent person though, no worries! However, please explain why a police officer who shot an unarmed suspect to death should be commended and generously monetarily rewarded by the public? If the shooting is found justified, he should be able to live his life, but as of now, he has his job and his pay and the police force and union defending him - why does he need a windfall of cash too? Why should he be able to buy a freaking HOUSE because he took someone's life? If he was an ordinary citizen, people would find that outrageous!

I donated due to the enormous legal bills he's going to encounter

I support Officer Wilson & every LEO sacrificing their time & energy to serve & protect us

 

[popsicle]

I watched the whole video. The man who supposedly had a knife (not visible in the video) was threatening no one. He was walking fairly close to/parallel to the police car and was ignoring commands, but he was on the other side of a low concrete barrier and was not advancing on police or threatening them in any way. He told police to shoot him with his hands in the air. He clearly seemed mentally ill to me.

Did we watch the same video?

 

[Alison]

I was reading the witness statement (MB's friend I forget his initials). He states that the officer reached out the cruiser window and grabbed MB by the throat. I have trouble imagining the physics of this. MB is what 6 foot 3 (I think this is what I read). How can someone sitting in a car reach out and grab someone that tall by the throat? It seems impossible unless you are literally hanging out the window, which wouldn't make much sense as it would be uncomfortable/unsafe and you wouldn't be able to get a good hold. He could possibly grab him by the throat if he was bent down at the window but it would still seem to me that it would be the person in the vehicle that was at the disadvantage as the person outside the vehicle could use the vehicle as leverage to pull away. Anyways that's my 2 cents.

 

[jmcgladr]

Officers are trained to never lose possession of their gun; for the safety of themselves & the community. It is a huge infraction if it is "lost" not even in the line of duty.
If a suspect attempts to gain control of an officer's gun (as it has been alleged in MB's case) that is a game changer.....no officer in their right mind during that type of altercation would think to use a TASER in the heat of the moment. Remember also, MB weighed almost 300lb and had illegal substance(s) in his blood.
A TASER would have been an extremely poor decision & probably cost the officer his life at that time.
Moo

My understanding is that MB MAY have touched the officer's gun earlier, in the patrol car. At the time he was shot, there is no indication that MB was trying to take away OW's gun. He was not near enough to OW at that time to do so.

 

[jmcgladr]

I was reading the witness statement (MB's friend I forget his initials). He states that the officer reached out the cruiser window and grabbed MB by the throat. I have trouble imagining the physics of this. MB is what 6 foot 3 (I think this is what I read). How can someone sitting in a car reach out and grab someone that tall by the throat? It seems impossible unless you are literally hanging out the window, which wouldn't make much sense as it would be uncomfortable/unsafe and you wouldn't be able to get a good hold. He could possibly grab him by the throat if he was bent down at the window but it would still seem to me that it would be the person in the vehicle that was at the disadvantage as the person outside the vehicle could use the vehicle as leverage to pull away. Anyways that's my 2 cents.

Well, I have heard the patrol car described as "a truck" so it may have had a fairly tall profile, making him more at the height of MB.

 

[jmcgladr]

I donated due to the enormous legal bills he's going to encounter

I support Officer Wilson & every LEO sacrificing their time & energy to serve & protect us

Won't his police union cover his legal bills?

 

[krimekat]

I was reading the witness statement (MB's friend I forget his initials). He states that the officer reached out the cruiser window and grabbed MB by the throat. I have trouble imagining the physics of this. MB is what 6 foot 3 (I think this is what I read). How can someone sitting in a car reach out and grab someone that tall by the throat? It seems impossible unless you are literally hanging out the window, which wouldn't make much sense as it would be uncomfortable/unsafe and you wouldn't be able to get a good hold. He could possibly grab him by the throat if he was bent down at the window but it would still seem to me that it would be the person in the vehicle that was at the disadvantage as the person outside the vehicle could use the vehicle as leverage to pull away. Anyways that's my 2 cents.

somewhere in the threads there are videos comparing DJs statements & how they differ each time he's interviewed . . . not to mention DJ stated he hid behind a car & is wanted in Jefferson City IMHO not a credible witness

 

[cady]

Grrrrrr..

Someone posted this link earlier...sorry, didn't hold the spot to reply with quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...c796f0-2a45-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

Interesting....

I think it might have been right after the convince store vid was put out, one of the Brown's lawyers made a comment about "why did OW leave his previous job," implying it was for negative reasons IMO

Then the other night Parks, in response to MBs alleged juvenile record, starting saying how they were thoroughly investigating Wilson's past, and you'll be hearing about that. (I'm paraphrasing, so MOO)

I'm sure there will be an attempt to connect Wilson's attitude/behaviors with the problems associated with his previous dept., much like this article is trying to do in a not so subtle way. JMO

Good article. IMO it does not disparage Wilson's police record, but it does shine some light on why there is a Federal Investigation about policing tactics in and around St. Louis County. If i'm not mistaken, St. Louis CO. police are handling the investigation for Ferguson. This is from where the " unnamed sources, close to the investigation" leaks are generated. Fortunately, there is some Federal oversight here. And a Federal autopsy. I will not assert that Wilson is a bad cop. I have no reason to believe that he was. But he started his career at the young age of (22?) with what was discovered to be a very corrupt PD...........whose operations were shut down. It makes me wonder if he just went from one corrupt agency to another. That is a formative experience. What's ok and what's not ok is blurry. And here we are. He's a young guy, and I hope that he gets out of the policing business. JMO

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Rachel Lippmann
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Maxine Waters ‏@MaxineWaters Aug 22
This weekend, I will travel to my hometown of St. Louis to attend the funeral of Michael Brown on Monday. http://waters.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=391408 …
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[krimekat]

And nobody should be suggesting that this particular jury was "hand picked" for this particular incident either. Good.

the GJ in StL County sits for 4 months at a time & meets on Wednesdays so no, this GJ was not cherry-picked specific for this case

http://www.stlouiscopa.com/Divisions.aspx?ID=151

 

[jmcgladr]

Did we watch the same video?

No way of knowing that, but probably. Unless there was another black man shot to death by police on video in that area recently (let's hope not!). The man's name was Kajieme Powell.

 

[krimekat]

Cop who killed Michael Brown started his career at disgraced unit that was DISBANDED over racial tensions - after officers opened fire on fleeing mother and child and beat up another woman

Darren Wilson was a rookie cop in Jennings, Missouri

The small city had a majority of black citizens but an almost completely white police force

The entire department was dismissed amid allegations of racial prejudice, unnecessary use of force lawsuits and corruption

Wilson's next job was in Ferguson, from which he's on leave pending the investigation into the death of Michael Brown

Wilson shot Brown, 18, six times on August 9

There have been mass protests and demonstrations in Ferguson since


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ism-corruption-allegations.html#ixzz3BJssoFXm
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

here's what London MSM is reporting

and NOTE: if you are not from this area (StL metro) it may prove to be advantageous to try & understand how/why these suburbs which once were flourishing are now tanking . . . IMHO it's the political structure, the public school system & the lack of supervision by parents (or whomever is responsible for the children)

Can't wait for MBs juvie record to be public knowledge

 

[krimekat]

I just can't figure this protesters out. 1 minute it's "F the police" "any good cop is a dead cop" then throwing things and taunting.
I was watching the other night where some protester shot a gun in the middle of the scene and a protester got shot in the hand.
Somone wrapped it with a gas mask scarf and what did they do next? Ran this guy to the police FOR HELP. Good grief,
FU then please help us? That's mighty hypocritical!

I'm totally embarrassed to say I live in StL -- Ferguson is not indicative to the entire area, Promise! It used to be a great place to live . . . not so much anymore