MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #10

[tlcya]

The fatal shot was not fired as he was running away uless he was runing backwards.

One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.
Mr. Brown, 18, was also shot four times in the right arm, he said, adding that all the bullets were fired into his front.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html

“While the shot could have come from the back,” Parcells said. “The arm is a very mobile part of the body, so it also could have occurred when he was putting his hands up ... We don’t know.”

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_f9904f19-dba5-58b4-ac4b-56b9bda29646.html

Both gentleman's credentials are public record and have been discussed at length in these threads. Frankly I believe Dr. Baden's original findings sans the spin added by Mr. Parcells. Others are opting to take the more creative explanations provided by Mr. Parcells. Shrug. You can lead a horse to water.

 

[cady]

I'm curious.. no one has answered this for me.. what would be a circumstance where killing would be justified?

JMO I Believe that you have answered that question for yourself here multiple times for the last two days. You have stated that without a doubt in your mind, the killing was justified. That's OK. You have a right to your opinion. We all look at this with different lenses. I am not a lawyer and I do not study Missouri law. I do think that if there isn't one, there should, in the future, be a Uniform Federal Code for policing procedure so that all police academies in the country teach the same course. That's just my opinion, to which I am entitled. JMO

 

[bettybaby00]

It seems to me that most (that I have heard) statements are from those who heard the tires noise and the "tussle" at the car window of the cruiser claim to see that much. And most state that they left the window, or the room, went downstairs after getting their cell phones to record it. By the time they got the phone and started recording, it was over. The shooting and chase had happened. So rather than to witness and possibly take notes and times everyone would rather have the video for the 5:00 news. I believe in the very first moments and minutes the 911 dispatcher was getting calls from the media more than witnesses.

JMO's

It seems no one saw the full incident, and I'm beginning question whether or not DJ did, b/c he states, as does Brady "he hid behind a car."

No way to know if he ever raises his head above the sight line of the car, and actually watches and based on many of the inaccuracies in his early recounting of events, he either....

A) didn't really see, and stated what he thought likely happened or
B) saw what he wanted to see.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Ok, so if you can bear with me, I would like to look at this logically.

He was shot. Then he ran away from OW, after being shot.

Then he turned around.

He was unarmed.

He was shot.

OW was out of his car and pointing the gun at him and shooting away.

WTH would he turn around to "charge" OW????????????? I cannot put enough incredulous question marks after that question.

That makes ZERO sense. ZERO.

Does it not make infinitely more sense that he KNEW OW WAS GOING TO SHOOT HM MORE, and he turned around to try to tell OW that he was unarmed and to STOP SHOOTING HIM.


JMO.

That is the conclusion I come with by looking at it logically. MOO.

If MB did turn around and charge officer Wilson it wasn't a logical or smart thing to do. It got him killed. I don't think it's ever a good idea to assault an armed police officer but it happens. JMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

JMO I Cannot speak for others, nor can others speak for me. I just want to know if the killing was justified by law, according to actual facts, or not. There are circumstances where killing is justified, I agree with that. And if the facts and circumstances do not meet justification, in a COURT OF LAW, then I expect the defendant to be dealt with fairly and equally. That's all. JMO

IMO the prosecutor didn't even have a good faith basis for presenting this to the grand jury.


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[bwt42]

'As Officer Wilson got out of his car, the men were running away. The officer fired his weapon but did not hit anyone, according to law enforcement officials."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/us/shooting-accounts-differ-as-holder-schedules-visit.html

"Witnesses have given investigators conflicting accounts of what occurred. The biggest differences have arisen in describing what happened after Brown ran away from Wilson’s car, as the New York Times reported:
"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-said-happened-when-michael-brown-was-killed/

It is clear that MB ran away from the car and that DW fired at him while he was running away. That seems to be an undisputed fact.

Don't think anyone disputes he was shot at as he ran away.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Don't think anyone disputes he was shot at as he ran away.

People are disputing that MB ran away.. On a few pages back.

 

[bwt42]

Ok, so if you can bear with me, I would like to look at this logically.

He was shot. Then he ran away from OW, after being shot.

Then he turned around.

He was unarmed.

He was shot.

OW was out of his car and pointing the gun at him and shooting away.

WTH would he turn around to "charge" OW????????????? I cannot put enough incredulous question marks after that question.

That makes ZERO sense. ZERO.

Does it not make infinitely more sense that he KNEW OW WAS GOING TO SHOOT HM MORE, and he turned around to try to tell OW that he was unarmed and to STOP SHOOTING HIM.


JMO.

That is the conclusion I come with by looking at it logically. MOO.

This scenario is possible. There are those on this thread that say he can still be shot within the law.

 

[Starry Night]

This whole thing is being picked to death.
In my own opinion, I see this as an excessive use of force by a police officer. I apologize to anyone who disagrees if I hurt your sense of justice. The reaction to this incident and consequent over-the-top emotional responses, the stir-it-up protesters on-site-that's all another story.
I feel Ferguson PD needs more training, support, and guidance. I am not condemning the officer. I cannot imagine how he is feeling as a result of all this. Don't know what stressers were in place that day for ANY Ferguson PD Officer.
Bottom line is that it should not have gone down the way it did.

 

[SStarr33]

He was not shot in the car. But he could have been shot when he was running away. That is possible. But it would not have been the shot that killed him it would have been in his arm.
I don't think the evidence shows that MB charged at anyone at this point. I think that he turned around to face OW but it could have been completely in surrender. There is nothing that shows us he was charging at OW.

I am struggling a lot with this case.

The last shots came when MB was facing him. I can see him getting the fatal shot while falling forward. I don't think it fits with MB charging him.

10 minutes after the shooting, this is what an eyewitness said:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...teen-Michael-Brown-10&p=10891874#post10891874

Unlike every single other person we have heard from, this eyewitness had NO agenda.

 

[bwt42]

He did run away. That is a FACT. IDK what you are trying to say. If you're trying to say I shouldn't challenge the version of the story which has been running through this thread and taking as fact, then I'm sorry but I have every right to post as you do.

I think you said shot running away. I could be wrong.

 

[aa9511]

The fatal shot was not fired as he was running away uless he was runing backwards.

He was some distance from the vehicle. In other words, he was not right next to the vehicle where the altercation took place.

Doesn't that mean that at some point he ran or walked away?

How did get from Point A (vehicle) to Point B (body lay)?

 

[Linda7NJ]

He was not shot in the car. But he could have been shot when he was running away. That is possible. But it would not have been the shot that killed him it would have been in his arm.
I don't think the evidence shows that MB charged at anyone at this point. I think that he turned around to face OW but it could have been completely in surrender. There is nothing that shows us he was charging at OW.

I am struggling a lot with this case.

The last shots came when MB was facing him. I can see him getting the fatal shot while falling forward. I don't think it fits with MB charging him.

It doesn't matter what a bystander may perceive or what anyone thinks.

The question is.... How did Officer Wilson interpret it?

Anyone being honest with themselves & understanding that there was a serious struggle in the car...that included Wilson's gun....could understand and state that it's likely Officer Wilson was in fear for his life when he shot Brown...he training kicked in and he shot until the threat was stopped.

IMO


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[al66pine]

Originally Posted by aa9511 "One thing I completely don't understand is that after OW shot MB, and MB and Dorian were running away....why did he shoot him more?
.... I am thinking that probably the protocol is to call for backup, but I'm not really sure. I do know that it cannot possibly be correct protocol to shoot people for the purpose of arresting them.
This is where, in either version (Dorian or OW), there is no justification. IMO. ...."

sbm bbm

Has anyone located and linked Ferguson PD protocol, policies & procedures, or written SOP?
Even though I've seen quotes from training materials summary re LE use of force, I can't find it ATM.
What about training materials summary re LE use of force.
If there has been a link or quotes, I've missed them.
Anyone?

 

[islandmixed]

You're seriously hoping for a trial?

I'm hoping the GJ has sense enough to not waste tax payers money to go to trial. It's clear who's guilty here.

Not hoping, praying lol sure am. He will walk anyway, as always...

 

[Apollo]

He was not shot in the car. But he could have been shot when he was running away. That is possible. But it would not have been the shot that killed him it would have been in his arm.
I don't think the evidence shows that MB charged at anyone at this point. I think that he turned around to face OW but it could have been completely in surrender. There is nothing that shows us he was charging at OW.

I am struggling a lot with this case.

The last shots came when MB was facing him. I can see him getting the fatal shot while falling forward. I don't think it fits with MB charging him.

In one recording (that has been posted several times), the person recording can be heard saying "Oh no, he turned around and is coming back", or words to that effect. So let's consider this: MB was shot approximately 35' from OW. What if MB ran 50', turned around and came back 15' and then was shot. We know MB turned around because he was facing OW when he was shot. I don't think we know for sure that he stopped as soon as he turned around. If MB's blood is found beyond where he was fatally shot, it may answer the hypothetical.

 

[Trident]

He was not shot in the car. But he could have been shot when he was running away. That is possible. But it would not have been the shot that killed him it would have been in his arm.
I don't think the evidence shows that MB charged at anyone at this point. I think that he turned around to face OW but it could have been completely in surrender. There is nothing that shows us he was charging at OW.

I am struggling a lot with this case.

The last shots came when MB was facing him. I can see him getting the fatal shot while falling forward. I don't think it fits with MB charging him.

BBM. So am I, and I'm sure a lot of other people. I was in complete agreement with you on some other cases. This one, not so much.

Have any of you ever dealt, intimately with a guy that big? I have. They do NOT go down easily. My and my huge Pagan associate held up an entire highway one not-so-fine night. Another time, three police cars would not take him on, even though he had a knife out. They made me drive him home. Take a good look at the Rodney King case, I just did. There are many variables we don't know about just now, drugs/whatever. Maybe big girls don't cry, but big guys don't go down, they just keep on a coming.

:cow:

 

[DebinGA]

Have they had the peace rally yet?

Sign I liked at a different protest:

What do we want?
Reasonable discourse
When do we want it?
Right now is good for me, but I'd like to hear your opinion.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It doesn't matter what a bystander may perceive or what anyone thinks.

The question is.... How did Officer Wilson interpret it?

Anyone being honest with themselves & understanding that there was a serious struggle in the car...that included Wilson's gun....could understand and state that it's likely Officer Wilson was in fear for his life when he shot Brown...he training kicked in and he shot until the threat was stopped.

IMO


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It actually does matter what witnesses say and how it is interpreted, It matters what the officer thought also but that has to be backed up by the evidence. At this point to me there are possibilities there that will not work for the officers defense.

I don't see it that way. I see the altercation at the car but I don't know how that started or who started it. I don't know what really went on at the car and then I see MB running away and the officer seemingly shooting at his back.
One thing that bothers me a lot is that a lot of witnesses say that he was shot facing the officer and then while he was just standing there and going down he was shot 3 more times.

That is where my main problem is. If he shot him and he was wounded and going down, The other shots were not necessary.
The timeline I saw from the car to the next officer on the scene was 3 mins.

I am looking forward to the case in full to get all the facts from both sides.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It actually does matter what witnesses say and how it is interpreted, It matters what the officer thought also but that has to be backed up by the evidence. At this point to me there are possibilities there that will not work for the officers defense.

I don't see it that way. I see the altercation at the car but I don't know how that started or who started it. I don't know what really went on at the car and then I see MB running away and the officer seemingly shooting at his back.
One thing that bothers me a lot is that a lot of witnesses say that he was shot facing the officer and then while he was just standing there and going down he was shot 3 more times.

That is where my main problem is. If he shot him and he was wounded and going down, The other shots were not necessary.
The timeline I saw from the car to the next officer on the scene was 3 mins.

I am looking forward to the case in full to get all the facts from both sides.

I think the problem is many want to view in "more than a tussle" / " serious incident" in the vehicle as separate instances. It isn't. Imo


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