MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #10

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM. So am I, and I'm sure a lot of other people. I was in complete agreement with you on some other cases. This one, not so much.

Have any of you ever dealt, intimately with a guy that big? I have. They do NOT go down easily. My and my huge Pagan associate held up an entire highway one not-so-fine night. Another time, three police cars would not take him on, even though he had a knife out. They made me drive him home. Take a good look at the Rodney King case, I just did. There are many variables we don't know about just now, drugs/whatever. Maybe big girls don't cry, but big guys don't go down, they just keep on a coming.

:cow:

I think that it is great that we can all discuss it. I find myself on different sides of cases all the time. And sometimes I am on one side until all the facts are released and I have switched my opinion. I think that there are too many questions I need answered but for me the weight of the responsibility lies with the officer. Right now I don't have enough of his direct testimony to accept his decision in this case. It could change. But for now, I see so many things that trouble me.

I follow the evidence. I don't get wrapped up in the emotions and the sensationalism of the cases.. The only thing I can do is take one fact at a time look for truth.

 

[tlcya]

He was not shot in the car. But he could have been shot when he was running away. That is possible. But it would not have been the shot that killed him it would have been in his arm.
I don't think the evidence shows that MB charged at anyone at this point. I think that he turned around to face OW but it could have been completely in surrender. There is nothing that shows us he was charging at OW.

I am struggling a lot with this case.

The last shots came when MB was facing him. I can see him getting the fatal shot while falling forward. I don't think it fits with MB charging him.

The preliminary investigation showed that the officer tried to exit his vehicle, but Brown pushed him back into the car, "where he physically assaulted the police officer" and struggled over the officer's weapon, St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar said.
A shot was fired inside the police car, Belmar said. After the incident, the officer was taken to an area hospital, where he was treated for a "swollen face," according to Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/ferguson-michael-brown-dueling-narratives/

“I saw the barrel of the gun pointed at my friend,” said Dorian Johnson, 22. “Then I saw the fire come out of the barrel.”

Johnson says he was within arm’s reach of both Brown and the officer. He looked over at Brown and saw blood pooling through his shirt on the right side of the body.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/eyewitness-michael-brown-fatal-shooting-missouri

Now there is much that I think DJ took license with to make he and MB out to be law abiding citizens rather than having had any blame or participation in things escalating. But based on teh wound to the hand and possibly the non fatal chest wound, I think he may have been telling the truth about MB suffering a first gunshot at the vehicle and not while running. What is disputed and not known at this time is the events that led to the gun being drawn and who initiated the atercation through the window. IMO DJ's account of that is absolutely not credible. But that does not mean that everything he saw is a lie. It means IMO he spun this shooting to make he and MB out to be victims of police brutality when in fact they had just committed a crime (charged or not) and had no way of knowing when that car reversed toward them that if the officer was not looking for them or had not just received a radio call about that crime. And therefore IMO he spun and spun and spun a tale. But I do believe based on police statements and DJ's account that a shot was fired in that police vehicle, a life and death struggle was occurring and MB may very well have been shot for the first time in that car.

So we cannot state as fact that MB was not shot in the car. We do not know that yet. If and when the findings of the investigation come out then and only then will we know.

 

[aa9511]

Raises hand.

We don't know how MB was "shot at the car." all we know is that it appears (based on witness and MBs lawyer statements) MB was injured at that time.

1) Did he get shot b/c officer pointed gun at him and shot him, or
2) did he get "shot" b/c there was a struggle for the gun, and it discharged

We don't know. Your "either way there was no justification" is opinion, and again according to law...



http://www.stltoday.com/news/state-...cle_b9ed4862-0afe-56c5-9250-5db7c2165a5d.html

Whatever way he got shot, he still got shot, didn't he?

And he at some point either ran or walked away from the car because if POint A is vehicle, he was found at Point B, 35 feet away from the vehicle.

At some point he was running or walking away from the vehicle.

I don't believe for ONE SECOND or one iota or one fiber of my body, that MB would be running away from the car, knowing OW was coming after him with a GUN in his hand, possibly already having been shot one way or another, and he would turn around to come BACK to OW. After the gun had already gone off. After already been shot.

OMG I mean come on, folks, this is a human being we're talking about here.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think that it is great that we can all discuss it. I find myself on different sides of cases all the time. And sometimes I am on one side until all the facts are released and I have switched my opinion. I think that there are too many questions I need answered but for me the weight of the responsibility lies with the officer. Right now I don't have enough of his direct testimony to accept his decision in this case. It could change. But for now, I see so many things that trouble me.

I follow the evidence. I don't get wrapped up in the emotions and the sensationalism of the cases.. The only thing I can do is take one fact at a time look for truth.

Taking one fact at a time without looking at the big picture isn't IMO the best way to find the truth.
It is however, the bread and butter of criminal defense attorneys and part of the smoke and mirror nonsense that distracts from the truth.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Taking one fact at a time without looking at the big picture isn't IMO the best way to find the truth.
It is however, the bread and butter of criminal defense attorneys and part of the smoke and mirror nonsense that distracts from the truth.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Actually it is, at least for me. I have to prove each thing.. Then when I add it all together it either fits or it doesn't. That is how I have gotten to the real facts in many cases.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Not hoping, praying lol sure am. He will walk anyway, as always...

I am praying for a trial too. and hoping he does not walk. There is wormwood in the Ferguson PD you just have to look at the other two officers in the news this week. I would be shocked to find one like either of them but instead we have two and a shooter of an unarmed black teen. It speaks volumes to the atmosphere
imo

 

[aa9511]

If MB did turn around and charge officer Wilson it wasn't a logical or smart thing to do. It got him killed. I don't think it's ever a good idea to assault an armed police officer but it happens. JMO.

WE DO NOT KNOW, none of us. NONE.OF.US. know if MB turned around to "charge" MB. I have listed my logic above for why I actually find that idea completely ludicrous.

And technically, OW killed MB. MB did not fire the gun at himself. Officer Wilson killed Michael Brown.

 

[bettybaby00]

It actually does matter what witnesses say and how it is interpreted, It matters what the officer thought also but that has to be backed up by the evidence. At this point to me there are possibilities there that will not work for the officers defense.

I don't see it that way. I see the altercation at the car but I don't know how that started or who started it. I don't know what really went on at the car and then I see MB running away and the officer seemingly shooting at his back.
One thing that bothers me a lot is that a lot of witnesses say that he was shot facing the officer and then while he was just standing there and going down he was shot 3 more times.

That is where my main problem is. If he shot him and he was wounded and going down, The other shots were not necessary.
The timeline I saw from the car to the next officer on the scene was 3 mins.

I am looking forward to the case in full to get all the facts from both sides.

BBM
So how much should be shaved off to account for the travel time of the 2nd officer???

Someone posted yesterday, the whole thing went down in less than a minute. (I don't have the link, so take FWIW.) IMO it makes sense, b/c based on a 3 minute timeline, the 2nd cop's arrival on scene means he had to be pretty close when he heard the call (444).

Under a minute. Mind boggling.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am praying for a trial too. and hoping he does not walk. There is wormwood in the Ferguson PD you just have to look at the other two officers in the news this week. I would be shocked to find one like either of them but instead we have two and a shooter of an unarmed black teen. It speaks volumes to the atmosphere
imo

Would it be fair in your opinion to paint all of Ferguson with the same brush we witnessed the "some" that busied themselves shooting & looting ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DebinGA]

10 minutes after the shooting, this is what an eyewitness said:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...teen-Michael-Brown-10&p=10891874#post10891874

Unlike every single other person we have heard from, this eyewitness had NO agenda.

.............................................................................................................
"Man1: "the police shot him...the police kept [dumping?] on him...I'm thinking that the police missing, like he like...police were like at this far corner[?]....[crosstalk]...police fire shots...next thing I know I think he's missing..."

Man2: "The police shoot him?"

Man1: "The police shot him...next thing I know, I think he's missing...and the the dude started running, coming TOWARDS the police!"
..........................................................................................................
StL County Police Chief Jon Belmar had a press conference several days after the shooting, where he described Ofc. Wilson's account. Belmar described DW being "pushed back into his car" ... being hit in his head/face ...struggle over gun which fired once in car ... DW leaving cruiser in pursuit of fleeing MB and firing several shots that missed. So, witnesses that claim DW fired at a fleeing MB may be right, but wrong about his being hit from behind. jmo

 

[cady]

IMO the prosecutor didn't even have a good faith basis for presenting this to the grand jury.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As I said WAYYY back, if the prosecutor did NOT do this in good faith, the prosecutor should be prosecuted. JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

I am praying for a trial too. and hoping he does not walk. There is wormwood in the Ferguson PD you just have to look at the other two officers in the news this week. I would be shocked to find one like either of them but instead we have two and a shooter of an unarmed black teen. It speaks volumes to the atmosphere
imo

bbm Yes it does, crime is rampant and police officer's lives are in danger daily.

 

[Apollo]

Whatever way he got shot, he still got shot, didn't he?

And he at some point either ran or walked away from the car because if POint A is vehicle, he was found at Point B, 35 feet away from the vehicle.

At some point he was running or walking away from the vehicle.

I don't believe for ONE SECOND or one iota or one fiber of my body, that MB would be running away from the car, knowing OW was coming after him with a GUN in his hand, possibly already having been shot one way or another, and he would turn around to come BACK to OW. After the gun had already gone off. After already been shot.

OMG I mean come on, folks, this is a human being we're talking about here.

Can you believe a thief would walk into a store, steal a $50 item and then instead of making a bee line for the door and getting the heck out of there, he would turrn around and rough up the store owner a little bit before he left?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Actually it is, at least for me. I have to prove each thing.. Then when I add it all together it either fits or it doesn't. That is how I have gotten to the real facts in many cases.

Would you agree that in Officer Wilson's mind it was processed as all one event?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SilkySifaka]

Would it be fair in your opinion to paint all of Ferguson with the same brush we witnessed some that busied themselves shooting & looting ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

\
No. I separate what stupid teens do with what people in authority with the ability to shoot unarmed men and women do. They shouldn't even get into a police force let alone go rogue. They should be weeded out and fired if they say things or do things that show they aren't fit officers. They have the legal power of life and death over the public. THey are held to a higher standard and should be.

 

[Trident]

I think that it is great that we can all discuss it. I find myself on different sides of cases all the time. And sometimes I am on one side until all the facts are released and I have switched my opinion. I think that there are too many questions I need answered but for me the weight of the responsibility lies with the officer. Right now I don't have enough of his direct testimony to accept his decision in this case. It could change. But for now, I see so many things that trouble me.

I follow the evidence. I don't get wrapped up in the emotions and the sensationalism of the cases.. The only thing I can do is take one fact at a time look for truth.

I find myself that way also. I guess the ONE point I want to make is that most people don't understand the damage a person that size can do, in a short period of time. I've seen my ex bash, bloody, pound, beat a man through a car window. I'm not sure most here understand that. I had to pull him off or he may have killed the guy. On the other hand, if the guy had shot him, I believe he would have been totally justified.

 

[Starry Night]

Would it be fair in your opinion to paint all of Ferguson with the same brush we witnessed the "some" that busied themselves shooting & looting ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's kinda a cheap shot.........of course not.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

WE DO NOT KNOW, none of us. NONE.OF.US. know if MB turned around to "charge" MB. I have listed my logic above for why I actually find that idea completely ludicrous.

And technically, OW killed MB. MB did not fire the gun at himself. Officer Wilson killed Michael Brown.

I agree that we don't know if MB charged officer Wilson. I disagree it's ludicrous that it did happen. It's not logical for unarmed people to assault armed officers but it happens. And some of those people get injured or killed.

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. JMO.

 

[Linda7NJ]

\
No. I separate what stupid teens do with what people in authority with the ability to shoot unarmed men and women do. They shouldn't even get into a police force let alone go rogue. They should be weeded out and fired if they say things or do things that show they aren't fit officers. They have the legal power of life and death over the public. THey are held to a higher standard and should be.

Wow....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Would you agree that in Officer Wilson's mind it was processed as all one event?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know. I think that if he was in the car in the tussle, then MB was running away, I don't know.

I will have to think about that because I don't know this guy and don't know how he thinks at all.