MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #10

[Linda7NJ]

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[LambChop]

I believe the gash type wound to the hand to be an shoring entry wound from the same bullet that may have then entered his chest.

If that is true, IMO both of those wounds came from the shot at the car during the "serious altercation". If true it is also why family attorney would rather minimize that altercation saying it doesn't matter - what matters is what happened after. Because IMO if that injury occurred at the car over a struggle for the gun it makes the case for justification. I cannot consider the ridiculous story of two young males just out for a stroll and a cop who unprovoked decided to pull a kid into his car and shove a gun in his face. I have nothing to indicate that mindset in OW. I do however have some clues which lead to MB's mindset that day. Much as the family attorney would prefer I didn't.

View attachment 57487

I have a question. Looking at the autopsy diagram, if MB was hit in the arm while he was running away wouldn't the ME have marked the diagram to reflect that the wound was visible from the back? And when you run where are your arms. Are they very close to your body or away from your body?

 

[katydid23]

It was recorded on the 911 call that his mom was saying he was acting very erratically and he was throwing things around the house and yelling. If he would have been in a public area, I'm sure then it would be some law he was breaking. My point is, the actions were along the same lines.

Danny also was disobeying LEO. Remember the officer wanted to come in, and he was saying no get a warrant. How is that totally different from officer telling MB to get off the street, and him not obeying. In both cases, an officer wanted one thing and the victim didn't want that thing.

It all boils down too - they both pi**** off the police officer.

Chrisman was pi**** off that Danny was listening to him. Wilson was ticked off that MB wasn't listening to him.

JMO.

But officer wilson has no history of abusing civilians before. He has a clean record. Why would he pull a gun out on this teen, in broad daylight, in front of a zillion witnesses, most of whom don't like cops? I could believe it if they ran into each other in a dark alley maybe.

But the prior 10 minutes show MB is the one with the bizarre aggressive behavior, NOT the officer. Why paint this cop with such a broad brush, and paint him out to be a racist criminal, when there is no prior history of that?

If we are going to paint the cop with a broad brush then we should do the same with MB, correct?

 

[cady]

Why? Is a prosecutor ALWAYS supposed to prosecute, even if he does not find legal cause?

No exactly the opposite. If he took this to a GJ not believing that there is probable cause that a crime has been committed and that DW committed the crime, he is shirking his discretion as a prosecutor, and should be at least removed from his office. His job is to prosecute in good faith or don't prosecute. JMO

 

[DebinGA]

Was the autopsy diagram Baden referred to Dr. Mary Case's or his/Crump's?

 

[Alison]

While I don't agree with it I understand where the parents are coming from. It is easier to point the finger at someone than accept that your child made choices that lead to their own death. They are pouring there grief into the "cause" thus not truly grieving their son. In a way they are in denial that he is gone. I am on the fence in this case so I am not saying it is all Michaels fault because I don't know that. I believe these two were each hurricanes and once collided they made the perfect storm. However I believe the catalyst was the fact that they did not listen to the officer and instead the confrontation ensued. If I just committed a crime and ran into an officer I would be all "yes sir, sorry sir", then get my behind out of there. This is a sad case all around. I am sure OW has played the scene out in his mind over and over again thinking of different scenario's. Also do we blame the officer or the system which creates the mentality in some of these officers. If I don't go after him I will be a coward, wont live it down etc. A system which gives a man the power to determine whether or not to take someone's life. Essentially he could have stayed in his vehicle and followed behind until back up arrived. He should have been able to determine he was unarmed. So what if he takes off into the bush (not sure if there is bush there) you call in the dogs etc etc. To me there are always other ways however he had limited time to decide. So I get it, and yes I have read the laws and when it is justifiable, so that is why I question why we blame the officer when essentially it is the system.

 

[katydid23]

No exactly the opposite. If he took this to a GJ not believing that there is probable cause that a crime has been committed and that DW committed the crime, he is shirking his discretion as a prosecutor, and should be at least removed from his office. His job is to prosecute in good faith or don't prosecute. JMO

I disagree. This is a very different case. he is in a very difficult position. There is NO WAY he could have decided on his own not to prosecute. The entire town would have imploded. He decided to let the Grand Jury decide. he has said that he will give them ALL of the evidence and witness testimony. I see no problem with that at all.

 

[Muffet]

I have a question. Looking at the autopsy diagram, if MB was hit in the arm while he was running away wouldn't the ME have marked the diagram to reflect that the wound was visible from the back? And when you run where are your arms. Are they very close to your body or away from your body?

If I understand your question correctly, I don't think so.

The diagram is the generic anatomical drawing used in medicine, based on what parts of a body are ventral (front) and dorsal (back).

Those aspects retain their names, whichever direction they are facing when a body part is flexed or extended, pronated, etc...

ETA - what will matter will be what's written in the textual analysis of the tissues/histological data. That's where they detail entry vs exit and trajectory.

I found the lack of this information by Baden to be somewhat suspicious, although, a previous autopsy would have made those things less easy to analyze, especially if it's true that the body was also already embalmed.

Personally, I don't find much value in Baden's autopsy or analysis, much less commentary for many reasons, but that's jmo.

 

[LambChop]

Was the autopsy diagram Baden referred to Dr. Mary Case's or his/Crump's?

It has M. Baden signature at the bottom. Also lacks a case number so I do not think it was done by Dr. Case.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Can you believe a thief would walk into a store, steal a $50 item and then instead of making a bee line for the door and getting the heck out of there, he would turrn around and rough up the store owner a little bit before he left?

:yeahthat: :websleuther:

 

[Alison]

I think the only real 100% truth we will get is the evidence.

 

[tlcya]

I have a question. Looking at the autopsy diagram, if MB was hit in the arm while he was running away wouldn't the ME have marked the diagram to reflect that the wound was visible from the back? And when you run where are your arms. Are they very close to your body or away from your body?

The drawing as prepared by Baden and signed by both he and Parcells is the attachment to my post. Parcells during the press conference pointed out on the drawing of the rear of the body and indicated with a red mark where he thought it could be possible one of those arm wounds came from behind. While running, your arms are not stationary by your side they are in motion, pumping back and forth. The wound he indicated MIGHT have come from behind but no one can say conclusively was a wound to the to the inner forearm. When running, and pumping arms back and forth, that section of the inner forearm can be exposed.

The photo at this link shows a screen shot of the press conference and you can see the red mark on the arm on the rear view of the body in the drawing. http://triblive.com/mobile/6636507-96/autopsy-brown-wecht

Hope that helps

 

[katydid23]

I think the only real 100% truth we will get is the evidence.

I am not going to assume that the officer is going to lie about anything. So far he has not been caught in any lies, because he has only told his story to the investigators. And his family.

Dorian has told several blatant lies. So he has lost all credibility, imo.

 

[Phoebeb]

I don't think that was Brady based on the angle of that video vs where Brady was describing his view and pointing in his interviews. That guy on the video won't come forward, imo... maybe investigators have tried to locate him, but I have a feeling no one would tell investigators who that was...all jmo

Absolutely agree. The person talking gave what appeared to be an honest, very likely description of what actually happened. I'm surprised he hasn't constantly been interviewed by all major news stations.


Maybe that is Brady.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Think the ms media may be stoking the racial fire?

Atlanta Journal & Constitution Editoral Cartoonist Mike Luckovich’s cartoon 08/24/2014
Copyright © , Atlanta Journal Constitution, All rights reserved.
http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Ol....ashx?document=AJC\2014\08\24&article=Ar01807

oh for Pete's sake!

 

[popsicle]

David Carson ‏@PDPJ 15m
#Ferguson police far out number protesters on W Florissant, cops hanging back sitting in cars but I can count 10 police vehicles

 

[LambChop]

The drawing as prepared by Baden and signed by both he and Parcells is the attachment to my post. Parcells during the press conference pointed out on the drawing of the rear of the body and indicated with a red mark where he thought it could be possible one of those arm wounds came from behind. While running, your arms are not stationary by your side they are in motion, pumping back and forth. The wound he indicated MIGHT have come from behind but no one can say conclusively was a wound to the to the inner forearm. When running, and pumping arms back and forth, that section of the inner forearm can be exposed.

The photo at this link shows a screen shot of the press conference and you can see the red mark on the arm on the rear view of the body in the drawing. http://triblive.com/mobile/6636507-96/autopsy-brown-wecht

Hope that helps

Ok, I see it. Thanks

 

[Muffet]

But officer wilson has no history of abusing civilians before. He has a clean record. Why would he pull a gun out on this teen, in broad daylight, in front of a zillion witnesses, most of whom don't like cops? I could believe it if they ran into each other in a dark alley maybe.

But the prior 10 minutes show MB is the one with the bizarre aggressive behavior, NOT the officer. Why paint this cop with such a broad brush, and paint him out to be a racist criminal, when there is no prior history of that?

If we are going to paint the cop with a broad brush then we should do the same with MB, correct?

Exactly.

I just SMH and laugh every time I hear the Sharptons and all repeat "IN BROAD DAYLIGHT!!!" mantra.

Sometimes I think a lot of thinking caps must have
fallen off next to MB's Cardinals cap.

 

[tlcya]

While I don't agree with it I understand where the parents are coming from. It is easier to point the finger at someone than accept that your child made choices that lead to their own death. They are pouring there grief into the "cause" thus not truly grieving their son. In a way they are in denial that he is gone. I am on the fence in this case so I am not saying it is all Michaels fault because I don't know that. I believe these two were each hurricanes and once collided they made the perfect storm. However I believe the catalyst was the fact that they did not listen to the officer and instead the confrontation ensued. If I just committed a crime and ran into an officer I would be all "yes sir, sorry sir", then get my behind out of there. This is a sad case all around. I am sure OW has played the scene out in his mind over and over again thinking of different scenario's. Also do we blame the officer or the system which creates the mentality in some of these officers. If I don't go after him I will be a coward, wont live it down etc. A system which gives a man the power to determine whether or not to take someone's life. Essentially he could have stayed in his vehicle and followed behind until back up arrived. He should have been able to determine he was unarmed. So what if he takes off into the bush (not sure if there is bush there) you call in the dogs etc etc. To me there are always other ways however he had limited time to decide. So I get it, and yes I have read the laws and when it is justifiable, so that is why I question why we blame the officer when essentially it is the system.

Good post. I think some have a real problem with this case because they are very concerned about the current laws, training and protocol that OW was acting under. If that is the case then maybe those should be examined and protested against. This case has brought up so many side issues that are not necessarily directly speaking to this case at hand but to larger, more broad concerns. Race, politics, depressed economy, disenfranchised youths, police training and policy, etc. But right now, OW stands in the midst of the firestorm of all those concerns, most of which are not in his control and never were.

JMO. Thanks for a good post which gave me a jumping off point to delve further.

 

[LambChop]

I don't have any comment on Parcells. But it is basic anatomy and Cyril Wecht also said the same thing. He could have been hit while running away.

Posters are requesting a link.