MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[jmcgladr]

But their proceedings will not be open to the public. And that doesn’t please Brown’s family.

“It’s about transparency,” family attorney Benjamin Crump said.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/26/whats-next-in-the-michael-brown-case/

What part of Grand Juries meet in secret does this Lawyer not get? Seriously I wish someone would "call him out" when he says this chit and the person talking/questioning him doesn't. Like their afraid to tell him he is ignorant to the fact. IDK Maybe I don't know. jmo idk

I don't know a lot about grand juries myself (I live in Canada, our justice system is a lot different). When are they used? Why are they chosen? Do all States use them? I know there are some people here who are much more knowledgeable about this subject than I. From what I do know, the "secret" aspect of them, and not sharing their deliberations or how they came to their decision, makes me a little uneasy. Why the lack of transparency?

 

[Lovejac]

Please provide us a link that MB was shot in the back.

There is none, because he wasn't shot in the back

 

[reedus23]

But their proceedings will not be open to the public. And that doesn’t please Brown’s family.

“It’s about transparency,” family attorney Benjamin Crump said.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/26/whats-next-in-the-michael-brown-case/

What part of Grand Juries meet in secret does this Lawyer not get? Seriously I wish someone would "call him out" when he says this chit and the person talking/questioning him doesn't. Like their afraid to tell him he is ignorant to the fact. IDK Maybe I don't know. jmo idk

All MOO and speculation, but he may be referencing the fact that a grand jury is being used instead of a preliminary hearing, which is open I believe. As long as a GJ is the route the prosecuting attorney always uses in homicide cases, I have no issue with it. Would I have preferred a preliminary hearing? Sure. I could be wrong, but my understanding either route could be used to determine if a defendant should be bound over for trial and the GJ route was obviously used here.

 

[K_Z]

the juvenile record of Michael Brown.

Does this imply that there is a record that has not been released because it is sealed for juvi

Do lawyers file for a release if they do not know if one exists, or do they file cause they know there is a sealed one?

Like just to find out if there is one - or KNOW there is one and file to open it up?

My understanding is that the person, a reporter, who filed the lawsuit originally filed a FOIA request, which he believes was illegally denied.

IMO, if the record didn't exist, there would be no reason to "deny" the FOIA request-- the response to the FOIA would have been that there was no record in existence. And IMO, a lawsuit to release a non-existent record, based on a FOIA request that was denied for non-existence of the record, would be dismissed pretty promptly. But that's just me using logic, lol! I think a lawyer would have to weigh in on this!

My opinion is that the record does exist, and that extreme measures are being taken to prevent the release. And my speculation is that if the record contained extremely minor infraction/s, no one would be so worried about being made public. IMO, the record likely has some pretty bad stuff in it. I'd like to quote item #27 from the pdf of the filed lawsuit court document, but until I can post some kind of link, I don't think I can quote it.

 

[TheDuchess]

RSBM - In fairness, an open-minded and non-biased person isn't going to tend to side with either side until all the facts are known. I mean, saying one is non-biased and saying they are already siding with the officer kind of conflict.

NO - the office is being accused of being a crime by many in the public eye. To me, he is innocent until proven guilty. Every citizen should get that same assumption of innocence - starting from point A and then let cracks in that opinion sway you away from the presumption of innocence. Now - MB hasn't been traditionally accused of a crime, as he is now dead, so it would be a moot point. But in order for us to start with the premise of him being a victim, we must take what we know about him into account.

To me - when an officer shoots a suspect in the line of duty, one should start with the assumption they are justified. Additional facts along the way may help us to change our opinion of the officer and most certainly, there have been cases where officers were guilty of excessive force, so I am not trying to say it doesn't happen.

BUT - I don't think that is what has happened in this case with a lot of people. Honestly, even myself in the beginning. When I first heard the story that a cop shot a kid that had his hands in the air begging for mercy I was outraged. But I took a step back, and really had to assess the situation better. It just seems that many are taking the stance that "cops are evil killers and run around shooting innocent people" and that the cops need to PROVE they are justified and that, to me, is backwards.

 

[popsicle]

Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 5m
This hole still remains woman here says it's from one of the bullets fired from #ferguson cop who shot #mikebrown

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This case is so confusing and frustrating.

I still am not sure how I feel about the shooting but the blindness of people who want to paint MB as a saint who was out sharing Jesus when we know for a fact that he assaulted someone not an hour before his was killed is irritating.

I don't like the sweeping saint/sinner thing. I think that he could have been an overall good kid who made a mistake that day. But I don't believe he was perfect and living the life of a monk.

I am so bothered by both sides that want to paint him as either all awesome or all bad.

 

[reedus23]

Well - it kind of does, as he references that there is a time and place to lodge formal complaints and a grievance process that exists. If the grievance process is unhelpful, well, that is a bigger fish to fry, I suppose. But I think the main point of the article, is that trying to fix the overall process when actually being confronted by a LEO is probably NOT the best idea if you don't want to get hurt.

Agree with your last sentence. It touched on other things but really didn't address how things can be done differently because the current procedures don't work to reduce the number of incidents. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't think that was the goal of that article, like you said.

 

[Frydaddy]

I have a hard time believing the "charging" story too, but it is the only way OW can explain shooting him through the top of the head. From all eyewitnesses on the scene, he was crumbling and falling forward for the last few shots.
As soon as the tox screen came out, so did the crazy charging bull story. Except *everyone knows* pot has the opposite effect, so they are grasping at straws trying to make the victim of this shooting acting like a maniac.

Can you cite the witness statements that talked about crumbling and falling forward please?

 

[Peliman]

KZ,

Not sure this site will allow 13 pages, might be too big.

You can try by clicking go advance

Put a small message in the text box

Scroll down to advanced options, select manage attachments

A new box pops open, 1. Click Add Files to upload new files or select from existing files below

Upload

If you can't find the file to attach, click the paperclip in the top icons and select the file.

If it's too big it will tell you.






If anyone else knows how I can post ths pdf (13 pages), please let me know![/QUOTE]

 

[tlcya]

Hope this works - should be a pdf of the suit doc regarding juvenile record of Michael Brown

 

[jmcgladr]

Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 5m
This hole still remains woman here says it's from one of the bullets fired from #ferguson cop who shot #mikebrown
View attachment 57594

Wow, that is scary! A few inches lower it could have gone through that person's window and who knows what could have happened! I didn't realize this shooting took place so close to peoples' residences.

 

[popsicle]

Hope this works - should be a pdf of the suit doc regarding juvenile record of Michael Brown

It worked... great job, thanks!

 

[Elley Mae]

I don't know a lot about grand juries myself (I live in Canada, our justice system is a lot different). When are they used? Why are they chosen? Do all States use them? I know there are some people here who are much more knowledgeable about this subject than I. From what I do know, the "secret" aspect of them, and not sharing their deliberations or how they came to their decision, makes me a little uneasy. Why the lack of transparency?

I don't know all the in's and out's and am sure some things differ from state to state, but I do know (unless the rules changed) that they meet in secret, and I hope they continue to, people on grand juries do not need to be known. Their decisions should not be up for scrutiny. jmo

 

[Lovejac]

There are two graze wounds - on the hand, and on his inner arm- that the 2nd autopsy results said were impossible to tell the direction of the body was in when shot. This was in CNN, NYT, everywhere after the press conference.
Further, the inner arm was said to be either a graze wound from behind if his arms were arms down, but more likely from the front if his hands were raised. You have to look at it and think about it the motion of the arms for it to make sense, but it totally does. I can find you a link, but I don't think you'll have trouble finding it? Let me know and I will post one, but I saw it here too a week ago!

What I was saying about the shots also is- it's as the witnesses on the ground reported it- shooting, a pause with turn around, more shooting.
It pretty much fits their story that shooting occurred while he was running away, as well as after he turned around. I know I saw a lot of scuttlebutt trying to claim there was no shooting from behind, but it looks like there's a lot of evidence there was. JMHO.

The problem is, that opinion came from 'Professor' Parcells, not Baden.

I don't know if you have been keeping up with the stuff coming out about Parcells, but he's not an ME or a pathologist or any of the other things he claims to be. Parcells is also the one that put the big, red mark on the back of the arm of the blown up autopsy poster they used at the press conference.

Dr. Baden's original autopsy report had none of that. You can find the link to the autopsy and the press conference in the media thread.

 

[jmcgladr]

My understanding is that the person, a reporter, who filed the lawsuit originally filed a FOIA request, which he believes was illegally denied.

IMO, if the record didn't exist, there would be no reason to "deny" the FOIA request-- the response to the FOIA would have been that there was no record in existence. And IMO, a lawsuit to release a non-existent record, based on a FOIA request that was denied for non-existence of the record, would be dismissed pretty promptly. But that's just me using logic, lol! I think a lawyer would have to weigh in on this!

My opinion is that the record does exist, and that extreme measures are being taken to prevent the release. And my speculation is that if the record contained extremely minor infraction/s, no one would be so worried about being made public. IMO, the record likely has some pretty bad stuff in it. I'd like to quote item #27 from the pdf of the filed lawsuit court document, but until I can post some kind of link, I don't think I can quote it.

Under what circumstances can the police records for a juvenile be released? I thought there were reasons those records were sealed - i.e. to protect the minor party from discrimination, and to allow them to proceed in their adult life without the stigma of a criminal record following them around and preventing them from getting hired, etc. Obviously, that is no longer an issue in this case, of course. But kids make mistakes. I don't think they should have no chance in life because they made a few mistakes as a kid and got into trouble with the law. I also don't see why, if MB has a juvenile record, it should have any bearing on this case.

 

[SStarr33]

Shimon Prokupecz ‏@ShimonPro 5m
This hole still remains woman here says it's from one of the bullets fired from #ferguson cop who shot #mikebrown
View attachment 57594

Yikes. I wonder where that window is in relation to the scene?

 

[K_Z]

Wow! Thanks to all for helping post the lawsuit.

Of interest-- the argument that the juvenile records are sealed by STATUTE, not by any specific court. AND the attorney cites a number of cases where the COR2 rule is being discussed, and the at least one case where the sealed records were released after the death of a young man, whose mother filed a wrongful death suit.

I also think the emails attached at the end of the document, chronicling the FOIA request, are interesting!

I wish AZlawyer were here to comment on this, since she has herself has filed FOIA requests and is familiar with the process.

 

[jmcgladr]

I don't know all the in's and out's and am sure some things differ from state to state, but I do know (unless the rules changed) that they meet in secret, and I hope they continue to, people on grand juries do not need to be known. Their decisions should not be up for scrutiny. jmo

Why do you think their decisions should not be up for scrutiny? The decisions of regular juries are!

 

[DebinGA]

I took it to mean one bullet struck him on the top of his head. What we don't know is if he put his head down or was charging the officer. What else can it be?

Ofc. Wilson "gun in hand", "approached" MB, who'd turned around and "was getting down" and then Ofc. Wilson "stood over shooting" ... according to DJ.