MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[gngr~snap]

Yup. You amazing GS

ETA, if that is OWs truck, then that angle would indicate there was quite a struggle for the gun.

Not OW. He is farther up.

See the street to the right?

Google street view.

Big picture
Mike Brown EyeWitness Crime Scene Video Ferguson,…: http://youtu.be/VdL9dqkyjhM
Where the video was shot where MB was in the street*where OW was...
Blue and green star for reference which side of the street Person taking picture was.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/15/1408116848048_wps_9_DO_NOT_USE_Michael_Brown_.jpg
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ouis-police-ordered-stand-Highway-Patrol.html
All posts are MOO

 

[reedus23]

No, not let him go, but maybe don't gun him down. He's got a description, he can come find him later... Just don't open fire in the middle of the street in the middle of the day.

That thought crossed my mind as well. I recall a case of an officer chasing a suspect in a vehicle. The initial attempt to stop wasn't a felony so I completely get that it's a different situation in so many ways. But the subject started driving erratically so the cop simply took down the plate and backed off. Subject was arrested the next day without incident.

I also don't know Wilson knew for a fact, but wouldn't be surprised if the FPD knew who Brown was on sight, especially if he had prior run ins with the law. On a drive along, I was shocked at how the cops already knew everyone in the community. Would say "So and so looks tough but he's a good kid. So and so...they're dealing drugs." Have also seen instances in night courts where someone would pull up and the cops would say "So and so just rolled in." I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he knew MB or DJ on sight.

 

[LambChop]

I agree, that is not really in dispute. But altercation does not equal one party assaulting another and trying to steal their gun, which is the assumption that is being made throughout this entire thread.

I believe DJ's attorney said altercation, tussle. Hope this clears it up for everyone.


A physical altercation is generally a confrontation, tussle or physical aggression that may or may not result in injury.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/physical-altercation/

 

[popsicle]

Bunch of video here I have not seen before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqZ8BU6I-jI&feature=youtu.be

He has a video on top.. he tracked down OW's addy and went to the wrong house...not cool.

 

[oh_gal]

If I saw the public crucifying my dead son, no, I wouldn't help them in their cause. If they get it, they get it, but don't come asking me for help when I just buried my son.

(above, bbm)
Crucifying?

Words like that only incite those already worked up. They don't help restore calm or reason to the situation.

 

[reedus23]

I'll say it again

ad·mis·sion
ədˈmiSHən/
noun
1. a statement acknowledging the truth of something.
"an admission of guilt"

synonyms: confession, acknowledgment, mea culpa, acceptance, concession, disclosure, divulgence
"a written admission of guilt"

When the family's lawyer goes on national TV and makes the following admission...



http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/the-ke.../3739124713001

I think it's safe to say, they're telling us that MB got physical with him, and they struggled over the gun.

He doesn't say, the officer pulled his gun and threatened them, and then MB tried to protect himself. Why not? Dorian was right there, correct?

DJ gave an official statement, and it's not at all similar to what he told TV reporters every time they stuck a microphone in his face.

That's why they try and diminish what happened at the car. Parks asserts, "but that's not what killed him." The truth is, it's exactly what killed him.

JMO

I think they're position is pretty clear. THEIR position is that MB had surrendered himself for arrest so even if there at one time was a justification for shooting while at the car, that justification ceased to exist once MB surrendered himself. Now whether MB, in fact, surrendered himself for arrest, has yet to be and probably never will be definitively answered.

 

[CARIIS]

WOW That is great MB looks so much further apart did it surprise anyone else

what are the two buildings the two stars?

Not OW. He is farther up.

Mike Brown EyeWitness Crime Scene Video Ferguson,…: http://youtu.be/VdL9dqkyjhM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/15/1408116848048_wps_9_DO_NOT_USE_Michael_Brown_.jpg

All posts are MOO

 

[gngr~snap]

Mike Brown EyeWitness Crime Scene Video Ferguson,…: http://youtu.be/VdL9dqkyjhM
All posts are MOO

 

[reedus23]

Reedus, very good synopsis, the only thing I would change would be that you stated MB was not shot in the back. Which is true if you are refering to back as in, "posterior torso" (what most of us refer to as our backs, however it has not been ruled out that he was shot "from behind". Those arm wounds, while being "front of the body" as the ME described are actually the portion if the arm that face back while walking or running.

I was referring to THE back, as in the part of the body. NOT the direction from which the shots came in relation to his body position.

 

[katydid23]

First of all, we don't know anyone was beating on anyone's face trying to steal their gun... There are many other ways this could have gone down. And of course it wouldn't be ok, but is the only option to gun a person like that down?? Really? That's the only option? In residential area where anyone could have caught a stray bullet? If that's really how it is maybe the problem here is that policing in North America needs to change at a fundamental level.

It's a judgement call. But OW is a HUMAN BEING. If he was under attack, and was blindsided, and punched in the face and head, and struggled with the suspect over the gun, which went off, then what do you expect his response is going to be?

Do you know how many cops are injured/ killed every year by perps grabbing their guns or blindsiding them and assaulting them? It is trained into them to respond with FORCE.

 

[CARIIS]

hummmmm....CNN just reported (and showed video ) of where guy (from todays audio) lived and it is close to scene!



YEH! O Mara just said on CNN some shots may have missed it took all day for someone to metnion that! Gosh

 

[katydid23]

That thought crossed my mind as well. I recall a case of an officer chasing a suspect in a vehicle. The initial attempt to stop wasn't a felony so I completely get that it's a different situation in so many ways. But the subject started driving erratically so the cop simply took down the plate and backed off. Subject was arrested the next day without incident.

I also don't know Wilson knew for a fact, but wouldn't be surprised if the FPD knew who Brown was on sight, especially if he had prior run ins with the law. On a drive along, I was shocked at how the cops already knew everyone in the community. Would say "So and so looks tough but he's a good kid. So and so...they're dealing drugs." Have also seen instances in night courts where someone would pull up and the cops would say "So and so just rolled in." I wouldn't be surprised one bit if he knew MB or DJ on sight.

If that is so, maybe another reason he felt he needed to defend himself.

 

[reedus23]

<BBM for Focus>

The Ferguson police Chief later corrected the statement about the first contact with MB by OW. Do you have a link for the FPD records that state that as of 7:00 PM that night, they still haven't seen anyone that matches the description in the robbery, reedus23?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/
Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source
By Hollie McKayPublished August 20, 2014FoxNews.com

Here is an article on FPD saying first contact wasn't related to robbery, contradicting the theory that DW knew all along they were connected to the robbery.

Yet, despite the implication that Brown was stopped because of the robbery, Jackson later appeared to reverse himself, saying at a second news conference that the confrontation “was not related to the robbery.” Instead, he said, Brown was stopped because he and a friend were walking in the street.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...e6fd5c-249f-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html

As to the report...page 15, nearly last entry on that page at 18:54:26.

http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/pa...rtment-incident-report-on-aug-9-robbery/1256/

 

[popsicle]

David Carson &#8207;@PDPJ 11m
#Ferguson marchers now headed back to church on Chambers, I counted 104, W Florissant still closed, mostly quiet pic.twitter.com/HYQUE0rKiX

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Well that's entirely possible. My question has more to do with procedure, if anybody knows.... Does the environment in which you are in play a role in whether or not to discharge your weapon as an LEO?

Gosh I'd hope so. If you were in an environment with large crowds, at a concert or something, I think that would make a difference because the chance of wounding innocent bystanders is pretty great. From the sound of it at the time of the shooting OW probably didn't have a good line of sight on DJ. Even though DJ really had at that point done nothing that we know of to cause the officer to be fearful it may have played into his mind that MB's friend might try to involve himself as well. If you are in a situation where it could end up being two against one, does that change the calculus? What if other officers had been on the scene with him? Would it have made it less likely, since he had other officers to help him take MB into custody? Would MB have engaged in a struggle with DW if he wasn't all alone? It is kind of a butterfly effect. It does make you wonder how if the smallest thing had been different here or there, if the outcome would have been better for all involved.

 

[Lovejac]

Oh for heaven sakes!

Parcells is on NG again :facepalm:

Can't wait to see what he has to say

 

[reedus23]

If I recall correctly, it was said to have been released as a FOIA request.

That said - I have no problem with either the video or the audio being released. I'm glad we have it. I've listened to it at least 20 times. That said, my point is that you seem concerned with the chatter's privacy being violated, but he was the one who decided to release it to CNN, so I am sure he took that into consideration when doing so. His choice. I am sure if he simply released it to the FBI, we'd never hear about it again. That's all. So it would have satisfied the fact that it would have been in the hands of the proper authorities, he didn't need to release it. And since he did, I am happy that he did, but don't feel bad about giggling about his conversation with his lady friend. That's all.

Just to be clear, I have never said anything about the chatter's privacy. That was someone else. Thanks for the response. Personally, while I appreciate being able to read more information, I wonder if everything should just be kept under wraps until a time that it all can be released in a more coherent fashion.

 

[tlcya]

Something was going on with with MB that day. MOO I don't know if he normally behaved in the ways I think he did that day. but I do believe THAT day he was feeling some type of way.

CAUTION, Profanity used in the linked music video

[video=youtube;-KKbdErJkiY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KKbdErJkiY[/video]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=some type of way

This man preferred to be anonymous and told Fox2 News that he&#8217;d seen Brown and spoke with him before Brown went to the convenient store. The man claims Brown felt &#8220;bad vibes&#8221; and that the &#8220;Lord Jesus Christ&#8221; would help him get through it. The man said that Brown told him they would finish their conversation after he returned from the store.

After about 20 minutes, the man claims to have heard shots and saw Brown (at the time, he didn&#8217;t realize it was him) staggering and running. The man said that Brown put his hands up and started screaming, &#8220;OK! OK! OK! OK! OK!&#8221; The witness claims that Wilson didn&#8217;t tell Brown to get on the ground or anything, he just shot him.

http://hellobeautiful.com/2014/08/20/witnesses-to-michael-browns-murder/

 

[DebinGA]

This is an interesting tweet from MB

IvPlay With Society @LoveRHateMe_ · Jul 6
Its ****ed up how we gotta kiss to get some where in life

New York Times: "In the ninth grade at McCluer High School in Florissant, Mr. Brown was accused of stealing an iPod. His mother said she went to the school, eventually showing a receipt to prove the iPod was his. He left McCluer and went to two other high schools before going to Normandy for most of his final two years. When his mother moved out of the Normandy District, he moved in with his paternal grandmother so he could remain at that school. But he continued to alternate between his parents and maternal grandmother." [3 different households?]

Red flags, anyone? Lots of change and instability, despite the presence of lots of close family in that community. Why all the school swappings in the same area? MB may have had a problem with authority figures and rules-following long before he met Ofc. Wilson.

 

[CoolJ]

It's a judgement call. But OW is a HUMAN BEING. If he was under attack, and was blindsided, and punched in the face and head, and struggled with the suspect over the gun, which went off, then what do you expect his response is going to be?

Do you know how many cops are injured/ killed every year by perps grabbing their guns or blindsiding them and assaulting them? It is trained into them to respond with FORCE.

Understood. It is a very fuzzy issue for me if a cop should be allowed to shoot in this situation. Yes I know they have a tough job, no question about it. But, was he under attack at all? Was he under attack when he killed MB, I expect his response to be whatever is gonna save the most lives.. To state it simply.