MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[sonjay]

If the State introduced CHARACTER evidence of DW, the door would be open for the Defense (of DW) to bring in character evidence of MB. I believe that's how it works, as to admissible evidence. Any lawyers here? JMO

I'm not a lawyer either, but I don't believe that's how it works. I don't think that character evidence about one person ever opens the door to character evidence about a different person.

If I understand correctly, the state would not be allowed to introduce character evidence of DW. In a criminal prosecution, they're simply not permitted to use "prior bad acts" of the defendant to prove the particular "bad act" being prosecuted. But if the defense introduced character evidence about DW, that would then open the door for the prosecution to bring in their own character evidence about DW. IOW, the state couldn't say, "DW was disciplined for excessive force last year, and that's evidence that he used excessive force in this instance." But if the defense said, "DW has never been accused of excessive force," the state could then introduce the prior excessive force complaint (if one existed) in rebuttal.

As to the question of whether character evidence about MB would be allowed in trial, I have no idea. He wouldn't be the defendant, so he wouldn't have the protections afforded to the defendant. I would think the strong-arm robbery would be permitted because it's so close in time to the shooting and speaks to MB's state of mind and possible motives for his behavior at the time of the shooting.

But I'm not a lawyer, and the above is all simply my layman's understanding of trial practices. And MOO.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

The national founder and president of Black Lawyers for Justice (B.L.F.J.) is Malik Zulu Shabazz. Wasn't he the chairman of the New Black Panther Party.

Looks like they are holding a press conference today at 1:00 pm - http://www.blfjustice.org/

That's who has been causing trouble in Ferguson. It was on the local news.

Pastors: Man claiming to be peacekeeper actually escalating things in Ferguson
http://www.kmov.com/special-coverag...per-actually-escalating-things-271915931.html


Controversy surrounds New Black Panther protester
http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/loca...urrounds-new-black-panter-protester/14354297/

 

[DebinGA]

@Linda7NJ found it.
VIDEO AT LINK

"Gary Tuchman visited the violence confrontation lab and even took part in one of the simulations."

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2014/08/28/preparing-police-for-confrontation/
Lol. It was at UCLA, the first officer on the clip was from Spokane duh... Knew I heard Washinhton.
All posts are MOO

Very interesting. After saying that findings showed both black and white officers viewed AA in the filmed scenarios as more threatening, the director said, "The surprise was that they were more restrained from shooting [the] AAs than they were [the] whites."

 

[bettybaby00]

I think the point is that sometimes anger can cause a person to not think clearly. In the flash of few seconds, they can make a mistake which costs them their career to even worse, their life.

In either case (MB "guilty" or OW "guilty"), someone did something incredily foolish and without thinking of the consequences.

Agreed, but who do we think the more foolish of the 2 were?

A cop who has zero complaints against him. And it's safe to say IMO this is true, b/c it would have been "leaked" already if anything existed. And even if we undertake the argument that there are no reports, b/c people in the community don't bother, I'd have to counter that argument with the idea that people who had been seriously wronged by OW would be seeking out Parks et al and telling them their story. Yes?

But back to foolishness...

MB was more than foolish in a number of different ways:

*Robbing a store where the people who own it/work in it know who you are from the neighborhood qualifies as foolish in my book.
*escalating a shoplifting incident to a felony also qualifies as foolish
*sauntering down the street to grandma's house holding stolen merchandise for all to see.....foolish
*defying a more than reasonable and simple directive by LEO while holding stolen merchandise for all the world to see....extremely foolish
*deciding to get into a physical altercation with a cop....beyond foolish
*IF physical altercation escalated into a struggle over officers gun....point of no return

 

[popsicle]

Rachel Lippmann ‏@rlippmann 33s
Federal lawsuit filed @stlcountypd chief Jon Belmar, #Ferguson chief Tom Jackson, and others. http://bit.ly/1qFqe8W

 

[Elley Mae]

I'm not a lawyer either, but I don't believe that's how it works. I don't think that character evidence about one person ever opens the door to character evidence about a different person.

If I understand correctly, the state would not be allowed to introduce character evidence of DW. In a criminal prosecution; they're simply not permitted to use "prior bad acts" of the defendant to prove the particular "bad act" being prosecuted. But if the defense introduced character evidence about DW, that would then open the door for the prosecution to bring in their own character evidence about DW. IOW, the state couldn't say, "DW was disciplined for excessive force last year, and that's evidence that he used excessive force in this instance." But if the defense said, "DW has never been accused of excessive force," the state could then introduce the prior excessive force complaint (if one existed) in rebuttal.

As to the question of whether character evidence about MB would be allowed in trial, I have no idea. He wouldn't be the defendant, so he wouldn't have the protections afforded to the defendant. I would think the strong-arm robbery would be permitted because it's so close in time to the shooting and speaks to MB's state of mind and possible motives for his behavior at the time of the shooting.

But I'm not a lawyer, and the above is all simply my layman's understanding of trial practices. And MOO.

Welcome to Websleuths!

 

[cady]

Sonjay, JMO I think you may be right about that. I know that character evidence is tricky....but I'm not sure how exactly it is admissible. I have a hunch that MB's juvie priors probably could not come into evidence. Lawyers argue in an evidentiary hearing and the judge rules. JMO

 

[DebinGA]

Welcome, sonjay!

I think introducing prior bad acts is a case by case thing. For instance, Phil Spector's history of menacing women with his gun was allowed in, and a number of his victims testified.

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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JOE MIKE LEAHY ‏@JOEMIKELEAHY 8m
Masked anonymous outside #stl fed courthouse, also waiting for Black Lawyers for Justice press conference. #Ferguson
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwJQ0IuIgAAkJkN.jpg

They need to go away already.
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[bettybaby00]

I'm not a lawyer either, but I don't believe that's how it works. I don't think that character evidence about one person ever opens the door to character evidence about a different person.

If I understand correctly, the state would not be allowed to introduce character evidence of DW. In a criminal prosecution; they're simply not permitted to use "prior bad acts" of the defendant to prove the particular "bad act" being prosecuted. But if the defense introduced character evidence about DW, that would then open the door for the prosecution to bring in their own character evidence about DW. IOW, the state couldn't say, "DW was disciplined for excessive force last year, and that's evidence that he used excessive force in this instance." But if the defense said, "DW has never been accused of excessive force," the state could then introduce the prior excessive force complaint (if one existed) in rebuttal.

As to the question of whether character evidence about MB would be allowed in trial, I have no idea. He wouldn't be the defendant, so he wouldn't have the protections afforded to the defendant. I would think the strong-arm robbery would be permitted because it's so close in time to the shooting and speaks to MB's state of mind and possible motives for his behavior at the time of the shooting.

But I'm not a lawyer, and the above is all simply my layman's understanding of trial practices. And MOO.

:welcome:

 

[cady]

on CNN right now about police confrontation jmo

 

[Suthrnqt]

Retweeted by STL Public Radio
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JOE MIKE LEAHY ‏@JOEMIKELEAHY 8m
Masked anonymous outside #stl fed courthouse, also waiting for Black Lawyers for Justice press conference. #Ferguson
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwJQ0IuIgAAkJkN.jpg

They need to go away already.
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That is the mask worn by the citizens who are revolting against a totalitarian regime in the movie "V For Vendetta".
And I wish they would just go go away, too.

 

[sonjay]

Welcome, sonjay!

I think introducing prior bad acts is a case by case thing. For instance, Phil Spector's history of menacing women with his gun was allowed in, and a number of his victims testified.

Yes, you're right, it's always on a case by case basis, and I was neglectful in not mentioning that. That's why the lawyers spend so much time preparing briefs and motions and replies and arguing about it in front of judges. As a general rule, I'm pretty sure that prior bad acts aren't permitted, but there are lots and lots of exceptions.

Thanks for the welcome. I've been reading here since poor little Cooper died, but I always read much more than I post.

 

[hambirg]

Armed has a specific meaning- carrying a weapon. If you want to ignore that- you are ignoring the law of the land, IMHO. Why is ignoring that law okay with you? Not understanding that at all.

You have used the term "law" several times in your posts. Could you please post the Revised Codes you are referring to.

I am a bit confused why you are under the impression that a LEO must be in full uniform to make an arrest or why an LEO would have to give personally identifying information while being filmed by the media. Apparently you think there are laws requiring these?

 

[Truthy]

Rachel Lippmann ‏@rlippmann 33s
Federal lawsuit filed @stlcountypd chief Jon Belmar, #Ferguson chief Tom Jackson, and others. http://bit.ly/1qFqe8W

Wow, this is pretty horrific stuff. Matches exactly what most reporters on the scene said happened. It is very sad to hear anyone mke excuses this blatantly illegal behavior on the part of the FPD. Cops should know and follow the law better than anyone, IMHO.

 

[SwampMama]

How about people just stop committing violent crimes? How about THAT?
This is going to sound absolutely horrible but it's how I feel...
I don't CARE.
If I see, hear or read about a violent criminal killed ...I shed not a single tear. I have sympathy for those that care about & love the person...it's sad that the deceased chose the wrong path...it's sad they put themselves in a position where they'd likely be shot....especially when they're young. I don't care what color they are, how much they weigh....how tall, how old...no gets to skip away after assaulting a police officer...
Only a fool would try.
I feel little for those that menace society.
All IMO
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A million thanks for this. I am so fed up with criminals being hailed as victims and being given hero status. I'm tired of the life being glamorized and thugs being looked up to by young children. It's a freakin shame that parents are raising their kids to thugging, thieving, scamming and killing as an admirable lifestyle.

I'm tired of young black men being killed by the thousands every year by other young black men and nobody bats an eye but let one young black criminal get shot and killed after attacking a white officer and suddenly the whole community is outraged at the injustice.

I'm tired of people like Sharpeton and Jesse Jackson making a fortune by keeping racism stirred up. They don't care one bit about thousands of young black men being killed by other young men, They don't want peace and unity, they make their living by causing discord and tension.

I am so sad for the children being raised in this environment, being robbed of their potential and their future by the ones who should be nurturing them, ensuring they get an education and teaching them the value of hard work and respect for others.

 

[Truthy]

You have used the term "law" several times in your posts. Could you please post the Revised Codes you are referring to.

I am a bit confused why you are under the impression that a LEO must be in full uniform to make an arrest or why an LEO would have to give personally identifying information while being filmed by the media. Apparently you think there are laws requiring these?

When they are on duty, police are supposed to be in full uniform, which includes their badge. And yes, they are supposed to identify themselves while making an arrest- see the lawsuit posted below your own post for details. Civil rights don't disppear just becuase a few rouge cops wish them away. That lawsuit is, IMHO, going to be the first of a few.

 

[Linda7NJ]

A million thanks for this. I am so fed up with criminals being hailed as victims and being given hero status. I'm tired of the life being glamorized and thugs being looked up to by young children. It's a freakin shame that parents are raising their kids to thugging, thieving, scamming and killing as an admirable lifestyle.

I'm tired of young black men being killed by the thousands every year by other young black men and nobody bats an eye but let one young black criminal get shot and killed after attacking a white officer and suddenly the whole community is outraged at the injustice.

I'm tired of people like Sharpeton and Jesse Jackson making a fortune by keeping racism stirred up. They don't care one bit about thousands of young black men being killed by other young men, They don't want peace and unity, they make their living by causing discord and tension.

I am so sad for the children being raised in this environment, being robbed of their potential and their future by the ones who should be nurturing them, ensuring they get an education and teaching them the value of hard work and respect for others.

Thanks button just wasn't enough!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[oceanblueeyes]

When they are on duty, police are supposed to be in full uniform, which includes their badge. And yes, they are supposed to identify themselves while making an arrest- see the lawsuit posted below your own post for details. Civil rights don't disppear just becuase a few rouge cops wish them away. That lawsuit is, IMHO, going to be the first of a few.

How do we know OW is a rouge cop?

I don't think anyone is surprised by any civil lawsuits. That has become as common as rain in today's time in cases like this. It amazes me how quickly the lawsuits wanting financial gain pop up. We have become a country filled with those who file lawsuits quicker than one can blink their eyes. It seems as soon as the person is buried or sooner here they come.

Wasn't MB just buried this week?

 

[i.b.nora]

For whoever it was that was wondering about the veracity of Normandy students moving their attendance to other schools/districts, etc.

This article seems current:

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/ferguson-florissant-will-now-accept-normandy-transfers

Ferguson-Florissant Will Now Accept Normandy Transfers
By TIM LLOYD
12:26 PM THU AUGUST 28, 2014

”In a closed session Wednesday evening, the Ferguson-Florissant School Board voted to accept students from the new, state run Normandy Schools Collaborative (NSC). The board had previously voted not to accept students from NSC, which began operations in July.”​

Much more for those interested in sorting through the information