MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #12

[jmcgladr]

Always a possibility. Could also be from smoking "modified" Swisher Sweets.

Personally, I don't think his behavior requires anything other than hubris as an explanation.

... And I see more than enough hubris running through him just in the behaviors no one denies, from the robbery to the refusal to get on the sidewalk.

To me, the part that's hardest to explain with that theory is the allegation of running toward gunfire/charging an armed officer. To me, there would have to be some kind of psychosis going on for that to happen. Whether drug-induced or mental illness. It's just not normal to do that, at all. It's reasonably normal, IMO for people, especially teenage boys with something to prove, living in areas with a lot of police distrust to ignore police commands. That they allegedly ignored OW's order does not especially shock me. And I believe robberies are pretty common there too - not saying that makes it right.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

bbm

According to the program's informational website, the 1033 Program has transferred $5.1 billion in military hardware from the United States Army to local American law enforcement agencies since 1997

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program



http://www.dps.mo.gov/dir/programs/cjle/dod.asp

1033 Program-----YES! That's it, Ellie Mae. I appreciate your efforts.

Thank You!
:clap:

 

[Phoebeb]

But didn't Dr B. refer to it as a gunshot wound?

Daryl Parks described MB's hand wound to Nancy Grace as "a big gash".

 

[bwt42]

I posed this question several threads ago & it was only answered by those that thought OW was justified in the shooting. I really have not made up my mind. I want to hear from those who have not made up their mind or think OW is guilty. If MB wanted to surrender as he was running away, how should he have done that so that OW would quit shooting?

 

[DebinGA]

.

Disclaimer: This is only one possibility, out of many that have been mentioned. I hope nobody takes it the wrong way. I am not a psychiatrist or anything of the sort. This is just something that occurred to me.

http://schizophrenia.com/earlysigns.htm#

I think you might be on to something there, jmcgladr. Something strange was going on with MB that caused him to change high schools 4 times.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Lawsuit seeking release of Michael Brown's juvenile records claims slain teen was a murder suspect

Johnson also claims cops told him that Brown's juvenile arrest record contains a second-degree murder charge and there are rumors he is a member of the notorious Crips street gang.

http://m.aol.com/article/2014/08/27...ael-browns-juvenile-criminal-record/20953546/

Wow! I'm wondering that if this juvie record is real and releasable if would ever be admissible in court ~ Am worried it might be judged as prejudicial and inadmissible. :dunno:

 

[jmcgladr]

I posed this question several threads ago & it was only answered by those that thought OW was justified in the shooting. I really have not made up my mind. I want to hear from those who have not made up their mind or think OW is guilty. If MB wanted to surrender as he was running away, how should he have done that so that OW would quit shooting?

I am undecided. I would say the best way would be to do what the protesters in Ferguson were doing - "hands up, don't shoot!" I am not saying MB did or did not do that, I am just saying that is the universal symbol for surrendering to the police.

 

[DebinGA]

But didn't Dr B. refer to it as a gunshot wound?

I'm not sure, but was that the wound Baden described as possibly a "graze"?

 

[aa9511]

Yep - quite aware of how websleuths and the real world work just fine. Never said I didn't. Just saying that just because people WANT charges filed and WANT a conviction doesn't mean they are going to get it.

That said, it is generally a good rule of thumb to begin any discussion in cases like this with the presumption of innocence and work your way toward guilt. It seems like there are a LOT of people that have rushed to judgment in this case (I was one of them!) and some refuse to walk it back. But seriously....in any of the cases we discuss on here...don't you agree that it is in fact a good rule of thumb to begin with innocence and some level of suspicion and expect those who are accusing someone of something to give some proof?

I mean...I can tell you all right now that Anderson Cooper just came over and broke into my house and stole my lunchbox. I would expect all of you intelligent people to ask me for proof, whether in a court of law or not. I don't think anyone would expect Anderson Cooper to have to provide anyone with proof that he didn't. No. I would expect a level of suspicion and would be expected to offer some kind of proof in order for you to even consider such a thing.

That hasn't been the case here. People started calling OW a racist cold blooded killer from the very start of this whole mess. My point is that prior to this incident, we have a cop with a perfect record. So I would expect people to logically think that claims of gunning an unarmed man down who has his hands in the air surrendering might seem a little suspicious and would want some proof. We've so far got a few eyewitnesses who have made their rounds of the news programs, lawyers in tow and seemingly millions of people talking about some intangible outrage over police brutality and racial strife.

But there has been NOTHING else to show that OW is anything more than an excellent police officer who was just doing his job on August 9, 2014 and had the very unfortunate circumstance of being assaulted by DB.

But it's OKAY to jump to conclusions and label Michael Brown as the Guilty one?? IMO, presumption of innoncence should go both ways, then. Especially for the dead one.

 

[Phoebeb]

If the two were going to the store to get swisher sweets, I'm thinking they didn't have any swisher sweets at home. I just think it was a "I'm a bad-a**, don't mess with me" kind of day. Or as you say, hubris. I agree. :whoosh:

Always a possibility. Could also be from smoking "modified" Swisher Sweets.

Personally, I don't think his behavior requires anything other than hubris as an explanation.

... And I see more than enough hubris running through him just in the behaviors no one denies, from the robbery to the refusal to get on the sidewalk.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I have been thinking over the last few days about this case and the oddities that don't make sense. I have a thought that I wonder if anyone else has considered. I am not trying to put down MB by saying this either, as this is not IMO a personality flaw or any such thing. I am aware that the late teens to early 20s are a prime time for the onset of schizophrenia in young men. I have known several schizophrenics myself. I have to wonder, putting together the "vision" he had shortly before the shooting incident, the aggressiveness toward the shopkeeper, and most of all, the *possible* (as I have said, not yet proven) attack on OW, and charging into gunfire, which is highly unusual, if this young man was possibly showing the beginning signs of (untreated) schizophrenia. The actions would correspond quite well from what I understand of this illness. It is a highly controllable illness once treatment is established, but it can be very dangerous to the sufferer and those around him/her when it is untreated.

Disclaimer: This is only one possibility, out of many that have been mentioned. I hope nobody takes it the wrong way. I am not a psychiatrist or anything of the sort. This is just something that occurred to me.

I was thinking just that---there may have been an onset of schizophrenia (schizophreniform/schizotypal) developing; especially since his parents and friends claimed he was talking about Jesus and Satan and some spooky stuff. Usually when someone adds in the FBI or the CIA, I go "bingo, schizophrenia" (imho). When I first heard about this type of talk MB was spouting, I wasn't sure if it was the spin doctors trying to martryize MB or if there really was some sort of psychosis going on.
Remember, illegal substances can also induce psychosis too.

all moo

 

[Phoebeb]

I posed this question several threads ago & it was only answered by those that thought OW was justified in the shooting. I really have not made up my mind. I want to hear from those who have not made up their mind or think OW is guilty. If MB wanted to surrender as he was running away, how should he have done that so that OW would quit shooting?

Stop dead in his tracks with his hands up, way up in the air. Maybe even get on the ground, flat with hands straight out. imo

 

[Phoebeb]

I'm not sure, but was that the wound Baden described as possibly a "graze"?

Don't know, but I thought the hand wound was part of the 6 shots he talked about. (Or was the shot in the lower arm the one that may have come from back, been a graze?)Would a graze cause a large gash in the hand?

 

[Muffet]

To me, the part that's hardest to explain with that theory is the allegation of running toward gunfire/charging an armed officer. To me, there would have to be some kind of psychosis going on for that to happen. Whether drug-induced or mental illness. It's just not normal to do that, at all. It's reasonably normal, IMO for people, especially teenage boys with something to prove, living in areas with a lot of police distrust to ignore police commands. That they allegedly ignored OW's order does not especially shock me. And I believe robberies are pretty common there too - not saying that makes it right.

That's why I said hubris. It's the difference between MB and DJ.

Ignoring demands and participating in a robbery then walking down the street is what DJ did. That's gutsy.

But when things got hot, DJ ran and hid.

MB didn't just do that. He robbed, assaulted a clerk in front of other customers, walked in Broad Daylight in the middle of the road holding his loot, and didn't just ignore a command by an officer, he fought him, and according to the chief, tried to get his gun. His lawyer's words don't even deny it. He just says it didn't matter.

IMO, what he did at the car shows enough hubris to believe he could go back towards the officer, who was shooting, especially if that officer had just been throttled, was showing signs of bad vision from an eye injury and was missing his shots.

 

[Dana]

I think OW was at that sick call further into the neighborhood. He was heading toward Florrisant leaving the neighborhood, and the guys were walking from Florrisant. So OW was driving to them in the opposite direction, not really behind them, imo. He told them to move, pulled up a few feet past them, they didn't move from the street, and he reversed the car turning the wheel so that he blocked them as they were still heading in their original direction.
That's what I believe, anyway.

Dang, I had been thinking that OW was behind the guys walking down the middle of the road. Thanks!
Which begs the question, MB and OJ SAW the cop car coming towards them. Why in the Sam Hill didn't they get out of the middle of the street BEFORE they had to be told to get out of the middle of the street? I've seen that street on a normal day through an interview with a retired LE and wow, that street is busy!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

But didn't Dr B. refer to it as a gunshot wound?

No, he said it was a gash on his hand iirc.

He also said it could be consistent if MB tried to grab OWs gun as the slide on the gun was pulled back and then forward to get it ready to fire.

I really don't think DB learned much in this AR. ME Case would sample parts of the body for gunshot residue and once those samples are taken in order to be tested then she washes the wounds so she can look closely at the entrance and any exit wounds and photographs them.

The original ME would test for gunshot residue and where it was found and DB would not be able to due to the wounds being washed. That way if the gash was a grazed shot he received when he tried to take OWs gun ME Case would have taken gunshot residue swabs from that area of the gash. It would have to be a close range shot if it happened as OW tried to maintain control of his weapon and there should be some stippling. I don't recall DB saying he found stippling in the gash on his hand.

I really think it is a gash and not a gunshot grazing type wound.

But then of course it certainly could be since its been said that one gunshot went off while OW was inside of his SUV.

We are going to have to wait and see if the original AR is released.

 

[TheDuchess]

But it's OKAY to jump to conclusions and label Michael Brown as the Guilty one?? IMO, presumption of innoncence should go both ways, then. Especially for the dead one.

Did you not see the robbery video? I saw it with my own two eyes and he's guilty. Even DJ admitted that. And even MBs attorney admitted there was an very serious altercation in the vehicle, but that it doesn't mean anything. We also know that MB was high at the time of the shooting and that he was, by even DJs admission, walking down the center of the street and refused to get out of the center of the street. So yes...I feel pretty confident that MB was quite guilty of all of those things. (Don't forget...when all this started, I thought he was an innocent unarmed kid with his hands in the air begging for mercy.)

 

[zenreaper]

I agree that for-profit-prisons are despicable and I also agree and have posted on this thread earlier that our gov't has militarized our LE due to a new incentive program. I forget what it's called but one thing for sure is that it won't go backwards to the way police operated 50 years ago. But it is what is today and anyone foolhearted enough in this day and age to challenge a cop or authorities is looking for trouble.
I am very familiar with the Innocence Project and also about the lack of priority or "resources" to process rape kits.
But the point of the matter is that as we all get older, we learn that life isn't fair, and just try to pick the battles wisely. That is why I mentioned keeping things in perspective.
After age 50, things take on a whole new look. Just saying...just moo.

Did you see WHAT they gave Ferguson that made them "militarized"? PoliticsNation with Sharpton showed the list. Ferguson PD got 2 Humvees, a generator and a cargo trailer. Not really something I, personally would want to go to WAR with.

 

[Lovejac]

I think OW was at that sick call further into the neighborhood. He was heading toward Florrisant leaving the neighborhood, and the guys were walking from Florrisant. So OW was driving to them in the opposite direction, not really behind them, imo. He told them to move, pulled up a few feet past them, they didn't move from the street, and he reversed the car turning the wheel so that he blocked them as they were still heading in their original direction.
That's what I believe, anyway.

Lord I need a map! I'm so directionally challenged I'm surprised I can make it from my house to school and back :shame:

 

[Muffet]

Wow! I'm wondering that if this juvie record is real and releasable if would ever be admissible in court ~ Am worried it might be judged as prejudicial and inadmissible. :dunno:

I've been wondering if it could be one of those pieces of evidence that can only be presented if the other side "opens the door" to it.

We need a Legal Eagle to help us here. What sort of things could open that door?

Could the prosecution saying it's not credible to assume that a gentle giant like MB would assault an officer without provocation (whatever) be enough to open the door to showing previous behavior that proved he had a tendency towards using violence against those who got in his way?

ETA: or, would they open the door by saying he had no MOTIVE to overreact, if his juvie record shows that his getting caught in another felony would cause a domino to fall down hard upon him? (see boytwnmom's post from the other day about this)