MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #13

[jmcgladr]

Interviews w purported eyewitnesses w their vids of alteration at car & shooting

Did any of their vids NOT show crime scene tape in place?
And NOT show multiple LEOs at the scene?

Thx in adv, esp if you have link to vids w/out tape & LEOs.

The pics in the Daily Mail article which have the live tweets from "Pharaoh" have some pics of MB on the ground before the crime scene tape was put up. Very clear pics too, though at some distance. I am mobile ATM but can post the link later if U want, though it is also mentioned a few times over the last few pages.

 

[reedus23]

At this link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-teen-surrendered-Officer-Darren-Wilson.html

Listen at 1:05. "The dude start running... coming toward the police..."

Sounds to me like he was running at the cop. JMO

Thanks. Can't listen where I am so I appreciate the transcription. I will listen again when home. Thanks.

 

[Muffet]

Sorry, thought you said falling. I'm not trying to convince anyone as to what occured. I find the Brady tape closest To what happened. "turned around clutching his stomach & took 2 steps forward".

Jumping off your post... BBM

It would be interesting to see which witness each of us believes the most to least. Or a top few.

My #1 would be the Black Canseco unknown speaker background guy.
Because it was such a candid description of what he had just seen first hand, and he seemed to be so frankly earnest.

 

[reedus23]

No need for thanks, I am happy to be a contributor here. But you are most welcome!

I was planning on doing Johnson's, but I didn't for the reason you mentioned (quantity), because life at home and work got extremely busy and I was only getting a few hours of sleep a night as it was, and because no one really seemed willing to discuss the transcribed words. Frankly, I think people avoided them purposefully so that they could continue to point to x number of witnesses.

That said, I will be away from here for most of the rest of the day, but I am curious to know not if you can impeach Tiffany or Piaget, but can you comprehend why I have?

Well I hope to catch up with you some time over the weekend maybe and toss some things back and forth about the actual words spoken. Oh, I could impeach each and every one of them. But I am also of a firm believer that everyone is impeachable, the Pope, Ghandhi, whomever. I'm going to re-read your analysis. I purposefully avoided it the first go around to form my own thoughts, and then on the second reading, read your analysis as well. Hopefully catch you later and bounce thoughts off one another.

 

[DebinGA]

James McKnight, who also said he saw the shooting, said that Brown’s hands were up right after he turned around to face the officer.

“I saw him stumble toward the officer, but not rush at him,” McKnight said in a brief interview. “The officer was about six or seven feet away from him.”]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2014/08/20/ferguson-shooting-accounts-differ-holder-schedules-visit/UNzwxnuv07pBKOxQAO1HPP/story.html

Where did "charged" originate? 3rd hand from DW>his girlfriend>Josie>public? It could be that Ofc. Wilson had been yelling, "Stop/Freeze/Get Down" etc. during the entire pursuit, and "turning around" was perceived as a hostile action. Turning around followed by any forward motion at all toward DW might have seemed very ominous ... to him in his "suckerpunched" condition. Unfortunately, the situation DW faced didn't occur in slow motion.

 

[Amber29]

Jumping off your post... BBM

It would be interesting to see which witness each of us believes the most to least. Or a top few.

My #1 would be the Black Canseco unknown speaker background guy.
Because it was such a candid description of what he had just seen first hand, and he seemed to be so frankly earnest.

I agree, he's my number 1 as well because it was a back ground conversation that was caught. He wasn't being interviewed by media and he has no lawyer speaking for him. It's hard for me to believe the 2 girls knowing there are pictures of them near DJ and MBs mom at the scene. I mean that's not my only reason to discredit them but it stands out to me. As far as DJ he completely discredited himself and being charged with lying to police before just seals the deal.

 

[LambChop]

Question was how far a person can travel in 1-2 seconds.

21 feet - 1.5 seconds - Accepted Standard
75 feet / 25 yards - less than 5 seconds - common pistol qulification distance
210 feet / 70 yards - 14 seconds - potential distance average man can travel and function after receiving fatal wonds from officers pistol

If it takes a man a mere one-point-five seconds to run across twenty-one feet, how long would it take to go thirty-two feet? The simple answer would be to add half, right? If thirty-two feet is about one-and-one-half times twenty-one, then one-and-one-half times the time of one-point-five seconds should be correct. Wrong. That one-point-five seconds for running twenty-one feet is from a dead stop. To assume that thirty-two feet would take fifty percent longer would be a mistake because you would have to assume that the bad guy started, stopped at twenty-one feet, restarted and then reached thirty-two feet. Reality is quite different. If you accepted that logic, the time would be about two-point-two-five seconds. In reality it would be less than two seconds.
http://www.usadojo.com/articles/21-feet.htm

 

[Spellbound]

Interviews w purported eyewitnesses w their vids of alteration at car & shooting

Did any of their vids NOT show crime scene tape in place?
And NOT show multiple LEOs at the scene?

Thx in adv, esp if you have link to vids w/out tape & LEOs.

LE are in this one, but it appears to be pre crime scene tape. I have never seen this one before.


http://youtu.be/KgFqQkm1AjY

 

[DebinGA]

(First time posting, some thoughts IMO and hope to contribute to peoples questions)

I do like you thoughts on this, my only addition might be that objectively it might show that he is not one to shy from physical force when a confrontation arises, which does run contrary to the “gentle giant” narrative. IMO when confronted with a being up to no good as a child I would usually try to talk my way out of it before resorting to physical force.

Well I know in Canada its center of mass, but given the amount of shots fired in the frame of time we have (based on the video when the gunshots in the background) I would suspect muzzle jump would be a factor, basically the recoil from firing your shots, more shots fired would reduce your accuracy significantly (based on my own experience with firearms)
Darren Wilsons sidearm was suggested as being a Sig Saur P229 .40 Caliber. According to a post from the S&W forum.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/390340-darren-wilsons-sidearm-missouri-police-officer.html
Listening to the video it sounds more like it then a Glock .45, which is very common in law enforcement these days.
To show some idea of muzzle jump I got a link of someone firing a Sig .40 at a shooting range, note the recoil, granted the person firing the firearm is likely a novice based on how sloppy her grip is, but still unless OW is a hulk of a man, and considering he was supposedly injured, the recoil would likely have not been negated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKbYUc7S5Y0

By Comparison a Glock .45 which is common in law enforcement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly5UnR7pPtk

Too close together to be casings IMO, also given the # of shots it would seem odd there are not more casings in that spot if it were.

Sorry for the long post, was a lot of things I wanted to touch on.

Welcome, Clar! Glad you're here.

 

[Oceans]

Someone several threads ago posted some really good information and analysis regarding how much time it takes for x distance to be covered by someone at your speed... And I think there was discussion and comparisons to reaction times.

Does anyone else remember or have a way to find it?

I thought it was interesting and very relevant information to remember, but I was multitasking, and whatever I saved fell off my clipboard.

Are you looking for post #979 here?:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...llow-shooting-of-teen-Michael-Brown-10/page40

ETA:

bbm
"210 feet / 70 yards - 14 seconds - potential distance average man can travel and function after receiving fatal wounds from officers pistol."

"Even if the officer fires two shots and gets good hits with both of them, the bad guy may have enough oxygen and adrenaline in his system to keep moving, in complete control of his motions, for another six to fourteen seconds!". bbm sbm
http://www.usadojo.com/articles/21-feet.htm

Seems a falling suspect w GSWs can still present a threat to LEO.

Anyone have further info/sources on this, other than feelings or TV shows?

 

[cady]

Anyone know if Black Canesco has been interviewed by LE? MY guess is that he has. My guess also is that if he gave a sworn statement, it probably did not include MB running toward DW,but vice versa. Seems as though many are relying on that to fit their narrative of the incident. Clearly, to me, he was sympathetic to MB. Just saying.....JMO

 

[LambChop]

Welcome Clar.
:welcome6:
:greetings:

 

[cady]

Where did "charged" originate? 3rd hand from DW>his girlfriend>Josie>public? It could be that Ofc. Wilson had been yelling, "Stop/Freeze/Get Down" etc. during the entire pursuit, and "turning around" was perceived as a hostile action. Turning around followed by any forward motion at all toward DW might have seemed very ominous ... to him in his "suckerpunched" condition. Unfortunately, the situation DW faced didn't occur in slow motion.

In my "Josie" notes, I wrote MB "charges" toward Wilson. That could have been my language, though, because I was not quoting her, but writing down her timeline. I know that she used the words "bum rushed" but if I recall correctly, it was what she alleges happened at the SUV. JMO

 

[DebinGA]

In my "Josie" notes, I wrote MB "charges" toward Wilson. That could have been my language, though, because I was not quoting her, but writing down her timeline. I know that she used the words "bum rushed" but if I recall correctly, it was what she alleges happened at the SUV. JMO

TY. I think "bum-rushed" and "charged" may be words DW never used.

 

[i.b.nora]

LE are in this one, but it appears to be pre crime scene tape. I have never seen this one before.
http://youtu.be/KgFqQkm1AjY

I haven't seen that one before, either, BUT... although it does seem to be early on, there is some crime scene tape up, across the road you can see it.

 

[bettybaby00]

(First time posting, some thoughts IMO and hope to contribute to peoples questions)



I do like you thoughts on this, my only addition might be that objectively it might show that he is not one to shy from physical force when a confrontation arises, which does run contrary to the “gentle giant” narrative. IMO when confronted with a being up to no good as a child I would usually try to talk my way out of it before resorting to physical force.


Well I know in Canada its center of mass, but given the amount of shots fired in the frame of time we have (based on the video when the gunshots in the background) I would suspect muzzle jump would be a factor, basically the recoil from firing your shots, more shots fired would reduce your accuracy significantly (based on my own experience with firearms)
Darren Wilsons sidearm was suggested as being a Sig Saur P229 .40 Caliber. According to a post from the S&W forum.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/390340-darren-wilsons-sidearm-missouri-police-officer.html
Listening to the video it sounds more like it then a Glock .45, which is very common in law enforcement these days.
To show some idea of muzzle jump I got a link of someone firing a Sig .40 at a shooting range, note the recoil, granted the person firing the firearm is likely a novice based on how sloppy her grip is, but still unless OW is a hulk of a man, and considering he was supposedly injured, the recoil would likely have not been negated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKbYUc7S5Y0

By Comparison a Glock .45 which is common in law enforcement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly5UnR7pPtk




Too close together to be casings IMO, also given the # of shots it would seem odd there are not more casings in that spot if it were.

Sorry for the long post, was a lot of things I wanted to touch on.

:welcome:

 

[momrids6]

"bracelet" is on DJ's left wrist at 0:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyZddanz2VM


eta; A bracelet..? as to if it is the same one discussed

 

[Muffet]

Question was how far a person can travel in 1-2 seconds.

21 feet - 1.5 seconds - Accepted Standard
75 feet / 25 yards - less than 5 seconds - common pistol qulification distance
210 feet / 70 yards - 14 seconds - potential distance average man can travel and function after receiving fatal wonds from officers pistol

If it takes a man a mere one-point-five seconds to run across twenty-one feet, how long would it take to go thirty-two feet? The simple answer would be to add half, right? If thirty-two feet is about one-and-one-half times twenty-one, then one-and-one-half times the time of one-point-five seconds should be correct. Wrong. That one-point-five seconds for running twenty-one feet is from a dead stop. To assume that thirty-two feet would take fifty percent longer would be a mistake because you would have to assume that the bad guy started, stopped at twenty-one feet, restarted and then reached thirty-two feet. Reality is quite different. If you accepted that logic, the time would be about two-point-two-five seconds. In reality it would be less than two seconds.
http://www.usadojo.com/articles/21-feet.htm

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
:thankyou:
:thankyou:
:thankyou:

 

[Clar]

Thank you everyone I've been following Web-sleuths Sincere the really informative discussion on the shooting of TM by GZ, figured it was time I register and give my two cents where able!

 

[LambChop]

Are you looking for post #979 here?:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...llow-shooting-of-teen-Michael-Brown-10/page40

ETA:

bbm
"210 feet / 70 yards - 14 seconds - potential distance average man can travel and function after receiving fatal wounds from officers pistol."

"Even if the officer fires two shots and gets good hits with both of them, the bad guy may have enough oxygen and adrenaline in his system to keep moving, in complete control of his motions, for another six to fourteen seconds!". bbm sbm
http://www.usadojo.com/articles/21-feet.htm

Seems a falling suspect w GSWs can still present a threat to LEO.

Anyone have further info/sources on this, other than feelings or TV shows?

This one, too. From the same link.