MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[Linda7NJ]

There are many things I could contribute to the current discussion. I also have very strong feelings about such programs and the generational crippling effect it seems to have on attitudes, work ethic, ambition and entitlement. But I think it is time for me to simply take a break instead as I fear a shut down of the thread if it gets too far off on that tangent but if anyone knows of a thread in the political pavilion where this topic is being discussed please shoot me a link because even though I have always avoided that area of WS in the past maybe its time I stopped avoiding and started expressing my views there.

I've seen what I have done to my own son.

I realize now that I apparently spoiled him more than I should have. He had to work for some things, but apparently not hard enough. He used to love hard work and the pride that resulted with it.
We own our own company and now at age 16 he has the opportunity to make more than many adult men with families.
He works only long enough for what he wants...then flakes. I've stopped handing over money hoping it will motivate him...not much luck yet,
I'm hoping it's a age thing and I haven't ruined him too much. He suddenly seems rather ignorant of so many things like dependability, budgeting..etc....he had these things nailed at age $10!!! Completely gone now. Which is more than a little shocking as communication is never something we are short on....
Oh by the way....he wants me to buy him a car, and I will.,,when he proves himself to be responsible, dependable and has saved a years worth of car insurance. He's known this for over a year....amount saved to date? Zero.

Wish me luck




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[Linda7NJ]

I wouldn't describe him as "advancing" on the officers, more like walking parallel to them in their direction. On the other side of a low concrete barrier. With a knife held low and not in any sort of ready position to attack the officers.

You do realize he positioned himself higher than the officers? Not much of a leap to land on one...then what?


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[EvilSoup]

A biased slant, news being slanted in a certain way? I'm pretty old guys, been around a long time and hasn't that always been the case? I mean is it humanly possible to report news and not have a slanted or 'your' view of what's going on? and even if that is the case don't 'we' the ones watching the news gravitate to news we agree with? I mean I just don't see that being any different. 'We' all have our own views and its generally based on 'our' life experiences. This includes the African American community. Their distrust of law enforcement comes from life experiences. All very understandable in my opinion.

I am very pro law enforcement, have had all good experiences with them, do I think certain groups are targeted by 'some' in law enforcement? Yes I do so although I do think OW was assaulted, I can certainly understand all the distrust in this community.

All my opinion only and posting as Ima, not a moderator.

Well said, Ima. :loveyou:

I tried to express this a few threads back, but it was not worded as well and was not received very well, lol.

I do not think the playing field is level and I always try to remember that before I dictate how someone else "should" think.

 

[TheDuchess]

Haven't seen this yet....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnAV9h3bFiI&feature=youtu.be&a

ETA- this is a video of Piaget telling her story to a reporter, which is being also recorded by someone from the NBPs. I'm not sure if I hear any discrepancies. One thing I did hear that was different was that she said LE came and pulled down the community cameras. I know I had heard there was no video that existed from the shooting and OW wasn't wearing a body cam. But wondering if there is a possibility that there really is an actual video of the shooting. I'm sure it would have been released by this point, however.

 

[jmcgladr]

I've seen what I have done to my own son.

I realize now that I apparently spoiled him more than I should have. He had to work for some things, but apparently not hard enough. He used to love hard work and the pride that resulted with it.
We own our own company and now at age 16 he has the opportunity to make more than many adult men with families.
He works only long enough for what he wants...then flakes. I've stopped handing over money hoping it will motivate him...not much luck yet,
I'm hoping it's a age thing and I haven't ruined him too much. He suddenly seems rather ignorant of so many things like dependability, budgeting..etc....he had these things nailed at age $10!!! Completely gone now. Which is more than a little shocking as communication is never something we are short on....
Oh by the way....he wants me to buy him a car, and I will.,,when he proves himself to be responsible, dependable and has saved a years worth of car insurance. He's known this for over a year....amount saved to date? Zero.

Wish me luck


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He's so young still, Linda! I'm sure it is just an age thing - most 16 year old boys aren't interested in progressing in a career, more about the immediate short term things like hanging with friends and making just enough to pay for fun things. I bet you will see a lot of change as he gets older and matures.

 

[Trident]

Do I need to be that technical here. Okay let me reword it
You could have talked him down simply b/c you saw the entire episode of events. These cops drove up blind to the situation at hand. They did not know how he was acting before they arrived other then what was said during the 911 call. They only knew he had a knife and advancing on them.

So, they DROVE up blind. Was there any reason they couldn't have locked the doors and closed the window, IF he was advancing on them, two of them no less, with a knife. Did they really have to shoot him the way they did?

Hell, even if I was a woman alone, and this young man had a knife, I wouldn't have thought he could kill me by cutting through my windshield. Maybe I'm a realist, or have my cajones than some, who knows.

Hell, they were TWO police office, in a car. He was one sad young man supposedly with a knife. What bravery it must have taken to blast him away.

I am very torn by this whole Ferguson thingee. I have lots of black friends who are dancing and screaming for the blood of OW, and they have NO idea why. They are like the one who didn't know you have to elect elected officials. There is a big social gap here.

In my opinion, of course

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, that post went south, into the ether. I will simply reiterate that I saw no knife, I saw a young man putting two sport drink on the curb, walking a bit to the right and standing there. I saw no knife, but he may have swung one around a long way, longer than would have bother me, didn't rush them with the magic knife that would have the throats of two policemen

Well lucky for the trained officers they did see it, so did the 911 caller that was so frightened she locked herself in her shop.

There was indeed a knife, regardless if you missed it.

He was advancing toward police, refusing to drop the knife, he climbed up to put himself above the officer. Again a dangerous position for the officer. He was armed, dangerous and advancing on a cop with a gun.

It was a good justifiable shoot.




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[Linda7NJ]

He's so young still, Linda! I'm sure it is just an age thing - most 16 year old boys aren't interested in progressing in a career, more about the immediate short term things like hanging with friends and making just enough to pay for fun things. I bet you will see a lot of change as he gets older and matures.

From your lips to Gods ears...

It's all about the girlfriend at this point...sigh...


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[Linda7NJ]

So, they DROVE up blind. Was there any reason they couldn't have locked the doors and closed the window, IF he was advancing on them, two of them no less, with a knife. Did they really have to shoot him the way they did?

Hell, even if I was a woman alone, and this young man had a knife, I wouldn't have thought he could kill me by cutting through my windshield. Maybe I'm a realist, or have my cajones than some, who knows.

Hell, they were TWO police office, in a car. He was one sad young man supposedly with a knife. What bravery it must have taken to blast him away.

I am very torn by this whole Ferguson thingee. I have lots of black friends who are dancing and screaming for the blood of OW, and they have NO idea why. They are like the one who didn't know you have to elect elected officials. There is a big social gap here.

In my opinion, of course

Or maybe it's just easier to play Monday morning quarterback from the safety of your sofa?

Police don't come upon a dangerous scene with a guy wielding a knife ...only to retreat and hide in their car.




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[ATasteOfHoney]

So, they DROVE up blind. Was there any reason they couldn't have locked the doors and closed the window, IF he was advancing on them, two of them no less, with a knife. Did they really have to shoot him the way they did?

Hell, even if I was a woman alone, and this young man had a knife, I wouldn't have thought he could kill me by cutting through my windshield. Maybe I'm a realist, or have my cajones than some, who knows.

Hell, they were TWO police office, in a car. He was one sad young man supposedly with a knife. What bravery it must have taken to blast him away.

I am very torn by this whole Ferguson thingee. I have lots of black friends who are dancing and screaming for the blood of OW, and they have NO idea why. They are like the one who didn't know you have to elect elected officials. There is a big social gap here.

In my opinion, of course

Closing the doors and locking the windows would get them fired for failing to serve and protect.
Perhaps you have an alternate view on what the role of law enforcement is?
I know I'd be beside myself (if I should live) if I made a 911 call against someone and the cops locked themselves in their car due to fear.
They have to serve and protect the community.
They have guns.
They use them.
They have to.

 

[jmcgladr]

You do realize he positioned himself higher than the officers? Not much of a leap to land on one...then what?


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I just watched the video again, from your link (thanks). It did not appear to me that he was in a position higher than the police officers when they shot him, though he had been shortly before that. He was on the other side of a concrete barrier, but on equal footing/height with the officers, from what I could tell. The video was shot from some distance away though.

 

[Trident]

Or maybe it's just easier to play Monday morning quarterback from the safety of your sofa?

Police don't come upon a dangerous scene with a guy wielding a knife ...only to retreat and hide in their car.

But, from what I saw, they did. The most they ever did before they shot the young man to death was open the doors of the police car.

I was horrified, and I am a race realist, an ex liberal. Even so, truth is truth, and justice is justice. I saw murder.

In my opinion




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[human]

http://www.metrostlouis.org/PlanYou...88&LineID=11948&srcState=MO&srcRouteNumber=45

http://www.metrostlouis.org/PlanYourTrip/MapsSchedules/MetroLink.aspx

I took a stab at in on the metro schedule to see if I could get from the Edward Jones Dome in downtown St. Louis to the scene of the shooting, just for kicks. $3.00 and takes less than an hour. Easy to look up with any iPhone, and there is also an 800 to call for the schedule.

http://tripplanner.metrostlouis.org/hiwire


JMO

Not bad. $6.00 a day on your job that pays minimum wage and more than likely has no benefits. Or sick time. Hopefully your children's school schedule fits in with that so you can bring them somehow to a suitable daycare and pick them up. Of course, poor people should not have children. What am I saying. Eugenics and all.

The easiest thing in the world is to be poor.

If people love the benefits the poor get, then the best thing to do is give everything away, get a job at a convenience store and then maybe at the Mall because it seems like those minimum wage jobs do not go full time.

Then apply for the benefits you can get such as food stamps and section 8 housing.

Easy. Anyone can do it!

 

[Sonya610]

So, they DROVE up blind. Was there any reason they couldn't have locked the doors and closed the window, IF he was advancing on them, two of them no less, with a knife. Did they really have to shoot him the way they did?

Hell, even if I was a woman alone, and this young man had a knife, I wouldn't have thought he could kill me by cutting through my windshield. Maybe I'm a realist, or have my cajones than some, who knows.

Hell, they were TWO police office, in a car. He was one sad young man supposedly with a knife. What bravery it must have taken to blast him away.

I am very torn by this whole Ferguson thingee. I have lots of black friends who are dancing and screaming for the blood of OW, and they have NO idea why. They are like the one who didn't know you have to elect elected officials. There is a big social gap here.

In my opinion, of course

I agree, I did not like the "suicide by cop" shooting. There were two police officers, heavily armed, the kid had a steak knife and kept screaming "SHOOT ME, SHOOT ME NOW!!!".

He wasn't saying "I will kill you" he was asking them to kill him. I am not comfortable with that shooting, they could have at LEAST called for psyche backup before shooting him.

I am not saying I think the officers should face charges, and it was a quick death for a suicidal very disturbed young man, but I am not sure I would trust their judgement and I am not sure they should be on the job.

 

[bettybaby00]

So, they DROVE up blind. Was there any reason they couldn't have locked the doors and closed the window, IF he was advancing on them, two of them no less, with a knife. Did they really have to shoot him the way they did?

Hell, even if I was a woman alone, and this young man had a knife, I wouldn't have thought he could kill me by cutting through my windshield. Maybe I'm a realist, or have my cajones than some, who knows.

Hell, they were TWO police office, in a car. He was one sad young man supposedly with a knife. What bravery it must have taken to blast him away.

I am very torn by this whole Ferguson thingee. I have lots of black friends who are dancing and screaming for the blood of OW, and they have NO idea why. They are like the one who didn't know you have to elect elected officials. There is a big social gap here.

In my opinion, of course

So cops are supposed to lock themselves in their car, and then let knife wielding crazy guy possibly harm someone else?

 

[LambChop]

Well, that post went south, into the ether. I will simply reiterate that I saw no knife, I saw a young man putting two sport drink on the curb, walking a bit to the right and standing there. I saw no knife, but he may have swung one around a long way, longer than would have bother me, didn't rush them with the magic knife that would have the throats of two policemen

Trident, I saw a larger version of the video from the cell phone. The man did have one knife in his right fist hand ready to strike in an upward direction. He jumped up on the approximately 2+ wall and after they repeatedly asked him to drop the knife while he paced he started towards them, one officer backed up while yelling and then they shot him. He landed within a few feet of the other officer. Reality is in that video that LindaNJ posted. You can see how fast someone could kill you within a second. There were also bystanders who the man could have easily gotten to in seconds. A knife does not have to be magical. Any one will kill you within a second.

It is indeed sad but the problem is weapons and the fact that so many people feel the need to have them. We are blaming LE when the problem is how we live as a society. This is just my opinion.

 

[Trident]

Closing the doors and locking the windows would get them fired for failing to serve and protect.
Perhaps you have an alternate view on what the role of law enforcement is?
I know I'd be beside myself (if I should live) if I made a 911 call against someone and the cops locked themselves in their car due to fear.
They have to serve and protect the community.
They have guns.
They use them.
They have to.

Normally I would agree, but in this case, I saw with my own eyes how this young man was murdered. I can only call 'em as I see 'em.

I am no bleeding heart, I would/still would shoot the looters, use the tear gas, but in this other case, to me, this young man was executed.

My opinion only

I appreciate all those who are telling me what they saw. I will now go and look for the video I saw. Man, it was horrific.

 

[Sonya610]

So cops are supposed to lock themselves in their car, and then let knife wielding crazy guy possibly harm someone else?

Sorry but I seriously think they could have at least TRIED non-lethal methods (tazer, pepper spray, etc...), there were two of them, huge advantage and one could shoot the assailant dead the moment the other was truly in fear for their life.

 

[jmcgladr]

So cops are supposed to lock themselves in their car, and then let knife wielding crazy guy possibly harm someone else?

He wasn't looking to harm anyone else. In that whole intro piece, he was threatening nobody. And when the police pulled up, he wasn't threatening them either. He was asking them to kill HIM! Which is, of course, very sad. But he did not deserve to die. Police should not comply with "suicide by cop" if they can help it. He needed mental health treatment, not gunfire.

 

[WVWoman]

Sorry but I seriously think they could have at least TRIED non-lethal methods (tazer, pepper spray, etc...), there were two of them, huge advantage and one could shoot the assailant dead the moment the other was truly in fear for their life.

So say this was your husband and brother....who would be bait ?? IMO
I don't think that is a realistic idea. Sorry ( in my opinion)