MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #14

[Linda7NJ]

In this case, who gathered the information to give to the GJ?

I have enjoyed the discussion as always. In fact, continued typing with a tornado was miles away until lost power. Best shut it down for the night. Good night all.

Be safe!


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[human]

With the media there as long as they were, trying to get interviews from anyone they could about this case, I feel sure that if someone had a complaint about Wilson they would have shared that. Heck, they could even tell the media what their complaint is without giving their names. However, this has not happened. Not yet anyway. It will not surprise me to see someone come out and say all sorts of things against Wilson if the Grand Jury does not rule to indict.

MOO

That may happen.

I am simply commenting that when there are such adamant statements saying that OW had no complaints filed, that means nothing IMHO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

That may happen.

I am simply commenting that when there are such adamant statements saying that OW had no complaints filed, that means nothing IMHO

Some people have had some negative experiences with police but I bet that all experiences with criminals were bad.
However, when push comes to shove, we call LE for help via 911.
I think that's important for all of us to remember, right?

Usually if an officer or members of the public commit infractions---they become noted formally. And sometimes they become video evidence too. Things have a way of catching up.

 

[Frydaddy]

I would suggest that juries don't buy into being grammar police. Also, an understanding and appreciation for the climate and culture in that area might help one better understand the "us versus them" culture that is present. Also, one's education level does not make them no longer a witness to events.

I retyped my response here to try and remain cordial and decided to ignore the air of superiority as if I do not understand or appreciate the climate and culture, education and grammar of black people in Ferguson. I understand it just fine, in my view, none of it has any bearing on her comments. In fact, given her statements, I would say the "us versus them" culture actually makes it more likely for Crenshaw to perpetuate a lie to keep Wilson on the hot seat. I pointed out plenty of context to go along with why I didn't believe that to be a misstatement based on grammar or education level. I concluded someone who just saw a specific cop shoot a black teen in the face would not talk in general terms while seemingly ignoring the cop who did it in the video. I'd think most people would be screaming in the video, "that SOB right there just executed that kid in the street".

I would certainly entertain this possibility if some actual facts of it happening are presented. Not just someone's presence. Some facts that he actually instructed her on what happened.

That's pretty much the essence of the entire case, if we had facts, there'd be no need for discussion. All we can do is pass along opinions and speculation until more facts are released. You need certain facts to prove certain things, that's fair. I saw Shahid in Johnson's first interview, I saw Mitchell and Crenshaw in a group of people that included Shahid and Mike's mother before Crenshaw's first interview, I know Crenshaw had heard Johnson's story about walking back from the store before her first interview, I know Mitchell and Crenshaw's stories sound far more like parroting Johnson's version rather than giving their own unique version based on their location and circumstance. I also know Shahid is one of the people leading this protest to get Mike arrested. I also know Mitchell was quick to call the news that day, then doesn't do an interview for four days after the fact, with a lawyer. Add to that the activist sounding comments from Piaget and Mitchell's lawyers and there's incentive to maintain the narrative for the bigger picture, Darren Wilson be damned even if he's innocent here. If you disagree with my conclusion, that's fine. My question is, are you going to pursue the potential of Shahid instructing these people to tell a story as hard as you defend some of the points on Crenshaw. With all due respect, I tend to doubt it.

Again. Opinion, and that's fine. I just want it to be clear that there is zero evidence of this beyond people being present at the same place after a white cop shot an unarmed black man. Regarding what she could see, I imagine she could see the larger picture of what was going on despite it being on the opposite side of the SUV. I can certainly tell if someone is inside or outside of the vehicle even if it's on the other side. What I wouldn't be able to tell is exactly what the scuffle entailed or the finer details of it. Having said that, you had previously made a good point about the brick wall obscuring her view. I think that should be followed up on.

I've never enjoyed playing the opinion game on message boards. That said, all one needs to do is stop the video at 0:32 at this link and explain how anyone could see a tug of war struggle from the angle that video was shot from, as that was Piaget's perspective. At best, she maybe could have seen the top of Mike Brown's head if he were standing straight up.
Certainly couldn't have seen arms pulling and pushing through the driver door. If that isn't common sense evidence, then I'd say the hope for a particular outcome is driving the evidence requirement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=advkpZIuq2U

IMO it depends on when the phone call was made and when she went to the window. It is just as easy to believe that the phone call was made as Mitchell was approaching, letting her know she was pulling up. Then, it depends on how long it was before she looked out the window. I know in my personal experience, a friend will call as they're entering the subdivision. I won't go look out the window for them pulling up immediately, but within a minute or 2 I will go look to see if they're there. I'm not saying that is how it happened, but it is a possibility. From her statements, I have concern about what she actually saw from the standpoint of her saying she changed windows she was looking out of and went to get her phone. When these things occurred could determine what she could or couldn't have seen.

Not really. Look at how many ways you have to adjust the story to fit the perfect timing required. I considered the fact maybe Mitchell called beforehand. The odds of Piaget getting called ahead of time and alter looking out the window at the exact same time as Tiffany pulls up on the scene, to see and tell the same story about the tussle, from the opposite side of the car...I'm telling you those are unbelievable odds. And let's not forget, she went to get her purse, not her phone per her statements. Now she has to get the call, put the phone in her purse, go back to the purse to get her phone, then wait to film until eight minutes after the shooting. Not even close to logical.

The last quote does draw issue with her as I said above. IMHO.

I left out that she "saw the hole with the building in it", I do try and give the benefit of the doubt to people who reverse their words when speaking, it's common. It's just a bizarre addition that had nothing to do with the event or the question asked, what would a prosecutor do with that?

I honestly don't know how one draws a conclusion that if one person is lying they are all lying. That isn't logical. She could very well simply want to be in the limelight and is regurgitating what she has heard. I don't know. But that doesn't make the others wrong or lying. Time will ultimately tell how accurate these versions are. As far as how to believe a word out of her mouth, maybe because we haven't actually sat down and interviewed her. Interviews are not meant to get the whole story out of a person. They are meant to get sound bites. I anticipate that LE actually followed up with her and asked her, when you say "They", who are you referring to and have a much clearer understanding of her version of events.

I impeach witnesses individually. Mitchell was impeached for some similar looking reasons and some that are unique. At no time did I ever conclude that Mitchell lied because Crenshaw did. I asked what it means when Johnson, Mitchell, and Crenshaw are in the same grassy area near Wilson's SUV before any gave interviews and then conclude one of them is lying. Has to give reasonable people pause when three accounts align from three totally different perspectives knowing they met and that Johnson's account was known by Crenshaw. You'll note I have yet to make a claim about Brady's reliability so far...haven't had time to dig in on him yet. I've seen enough interviews of Crenshaw that I think I know how she'd answer my questions. She's on Facebook, maybe you could ask her some questions if you still seek information from her.

 

[Oceans]

Who was the real Michael Brown? The kid from a broken home who beat the odds to get into college, the rapper who sang about 'Feds' and smoking weed, or the robbery suspect caught on video minutes before cop shot him dead...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-shocking-video-just-real-Michael-Brown.html

Not sure if this has been posted. The article describes how Michael Brown grew up, includes many photos and his lyrics.

 

[katydid23]

As a middle class white woman, i have had unpleasant experiences with the police where i live. I,wanted to report an incident once


My hubby told me that under no circumstances should I report an LE.

He said they will have my license plate and everyone will be watching to see if they can get me for anything.

I am not impressed with LE having no complaints.

But not everyone thinks about it in that way. I bet there are many cops who have had complaints filed. jmo

 

[Ladylub]

they got the freeway blocked now. losers

Way late to the party here but seriously this type of behavior drives me insane. When my kids put up a fit like this to get what they know they do not get what they want at all. I do not do well with :tantrum:. If anyone is hurt while this idiot behavior is in the middle of the street I hope they get charged with any and everything that can be thrown at them. Tired of grown people acting like babies. Grow the heck up learn the real world ways to handle problems you may have. Things may not happen fast or how you want them but with your adult draws on move on. If I acted like these people every time I found a case to not go how I wanted it to go or it was moving to slow for me I would have no voice, I would not be able to carry my huge sign by myself and every single building near and far would be looted and/or burned.

 

[momrids6]

But not everyone thinks about it in that way. I bet there are many cops who have had complaints filed. jmo

Agreed. Cops here know which of their peers are a problem; and every profession has a few bad apples, imo

 

[1&2&3]

This mess has gotten to the point of repeat and repeat! It is sickening! I am extremely sorry for the loss of MB. However, I feel his Mom is still pushing the cops are against us card! Why can't or won't she keep her mouth shut? Does she not understand that she keeps inciting these protestors who don't really know why they are protesting?

Had the scenario turned the other way and the officer was killed by an unarmed MB, my instinct tells me we would be looking at the same scenario! Isn't that a pity? Ferguson was ready, willing, and waiting for the right incident to set this off!

So, come on authorities, civil right groups, and the big Whigs from the black groups. What are your plans? We can't hang an innocent man because the citizens demand it to see the evidence. OW, has rights too! Who is protecting his rights?

When did the citizens gain control to call the shots in our justice system? Do you really want to have violence, looting, and protests daily just so the blacks will feel they are getting there say? There are good blacks in Ferguson and these discussions do nor reflect on them. It is like when we discuss Iran or Muslims as being bad, it is only some, not all of them. We appreciate all the community leaders, helpers, and good people who know to stay out of the way of the trouble makers. Thank you sooo very much.

Now if the trouble makers would go home, go to school, return to living. The Pied Piper that started this has probably gone home . Whoever is leading , You need a plan of action - a resolution as to what you want to be fixed, and how? A plan A and a plan B? Is the leader prepared with this? Probably should have a plan C too. It is too serious to just wing it. In fact, we all want to help, you can ask help from a white leader that you respect and trust. Please take everyone's help, then use what works in your plan. Good luck! ��

 

[K_Z]

Last night when the Wash Post article came out about DJ, some of us were questioning whether the writer meant that DJ was in protective custody or OW was, or both. I sent Wes Lowery (the writer) a question through twitter and he sent back a message that they both are in protective custody.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9b47ba-2ee2-11e4-9b98-848790384093_story.html

That is awesome! Did he give any indication as to who DJ is afraid of???

Article says DJ "is in federal protective custody." Which feds have been reported as involved in this case - FBI, DOJ-Civil Rights Division, other? Unless DJ is viewed as a potential federal witness in a potential federal civil rights trial situation, would DJ be given federal protection now?

Yeah at first I thought his decision (after pondering) to put back the cigars showed honesty and a conscience.

After I learned he had an open WARRANT out for his arrest, for theft no less, then I changed my mind.

That wasn't moral fortitude, it was the fear of going to the big house.

(*Parody/ sarcasm alert*)

Wait-- Dorian Johnson is in protective custody?? Holy cow! Like, his freedom is restricted?? And this is not something that motivates the fine citizens of Ferguson to "express themselves" in riots and looting, AGAIN?? Don't the fine citizens of Ferguson realize the tremendous DANGER DJ is in, in protective custody??

FTLOG, the LEOs might KILL him, right? Shoot him dead like a dog, unarmed, in broad daylight? Exercise "police brutality" against him? Or "disappear him"? Flog him? Abuse him? Cut off his dread locks? Drug test him, make him eat a balanced diet, and pay his bills? The horror!! Why is Rev. Al Sharpton and his circle of "unrest instigators" perfectly okay with this? Where is the outrage? The demonstrations? The chants? The Molotov cocktails and pee bombs? "They" have TAKEN this man's FREEDOM, FGS! Just TAKEN it-- without charges, a trial, nothing! In broad daylight! Where is the outrage? The horror? Where are the calls to clog up highways on Dorian's behalf?? It's just so unfair!

Why, oh why, has his community forsaken poor, vulnerable, homeless (evicted) Dorian Johnson? Did they not read the WaPo article about what a saint DJ is? What a good friend he is to people who barely know him? How good he is at sharing....his playstation? How he values, and insists on the "buddy system" at all times, especially during robberies and assaults? Why no calls for "Justice for Dorian?" "Release him now!" "Our demands must be met!" "Jail the jailers of Dorian Johnson!" "Free Dorian!"

How do we, the public, even have any confidence he is eating well, being taken care of, and has a playstation? I mean, he might even have PTSD-- does he have medical care? Counseling? The secrecy means there is a conspiracy, I tell ya. They're trying to induce Stockholm Syndrome, the ba3#4ds! Protective custody, indeed. Cruel.

I'm just so confused. (Not really.)

 

[K_Z]

Who was the real Michael Brown? The kid from a broken home who beat the odds to get into college, the rapper who sang about 'Feds' and smoking weed, or the robbery suspect caught on video minutes before cop shot him dead...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-shocking-video-just-real-Michael-Brown.html

Not sure if this has been posted. The article describes how Michael Brown grew up, includes many photos and his lyrics.

If he finally graduated beginning of August, I highly doubt he was starting HVAC tech school 4 weeks later. I think that was a pipe dream of his mother for her son-- nothing, especially his behavior, indicates this was what MB wanted for himself, or was actively pursuing. IMO.

 

[Apollo]

Who was the real Michael Brown? The kid from a broken home who beat the odds to get into college, the rapper who sang about 'Feds' and smoking weed, or the robbery suspect caught on video minutes before cop shot him dead...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-shocking-video-just-real-Michael-Brown.html

Not sure if this has been posted. The article describes how Michael Brown grew up, includes many photos and his lyrics.

Also from the link:

"When asked for his views on the footage that shows the teenager and his friend Dorian Johnson (a key witness to the shooting, now revealed to have a history of making a false police report) robbing a nearby convenience store, Pastor Ewing denied that the grainy images show Michael at all."

If MB's Uncle doesn't believe it's MB in the convenience store after seeing the video, what are the chances he's going to believe anything negative about MB that the investigation uncovers or the GJ has to say.

 

[bettybaby00]

Catching up!

Also from the link:

"When asked for his views on the footage that shows the teenager and his friend Dorian Johnson (a key witness to the shooting, now revealed to have a history of making a false police report) robbing a nearby convenience store, Pastor Ewing denied that the grainy images show Michael at all."

If MB's Uncle doesn't believe it's MB in the convenience store after seeing the video, what are the chances he's going to believe anything negative about MB that the investigation uncovers or the GJ has to say.

Crazy. He's not still saying this is?

 

[LambChop]

I was under the impression that a Grand Jury in Georgia can request further investigation or documentation than what is initially presented. It may vary from state to state or I could be totally wrong. (It's happened before.)

Yes, they can ask for more information and can ask a witness questions. What I was referring to was they are not evidence gathers, which is what I believe the community is uncomfortable with. LE does the majority of that. jmo

 

[EvilSoup]

Found this

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/special-or-investigative-grand-jury.html

Sometimes, a grand jury will initiate an investigation on its own, rather than waiting for a prosecutor to bring evidence that's been developed by the police. Special, or investigative, grand juries typically operate when there's a suspicion of organized crime or political corruption. States may authorize separate grand juries to hear such cases, apart from the grand jury that hears cases brought by prosecutors; or the same grand jury may have both powers.


More at link


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Thanks for your answer, although yours is one of many and most were differing, so still clear as mud, lol!

I hope that ^ is the case here, as it will be the most impartial way of gaining evidence. It would be the best way to go, IMO.

 

[DebinGA]

Also from the link:

"When asked for his views on the footage that shows the teenager and his friend Dorian Johnson (a key witness to the shooting, now revealed to have a history of making a false police report) robbing a nearby convenience store, Pastor Ewing denied that the grainy images show Michael at all."

If MB's Uncle doesn't believe it's MB in the convenience store after seeing the video, what are the chances he's going to believe anything negative about MB that the investigation uncovers or the GJ has to say.

The site which shall not be named claims it's Pastor Ewing's son Calvin (MB's cousin), who's the large fellow in green t-shirt with his arm around DJ's shoulder in his first on-scene interview the day of the shooting.

 

[EvilSoup]

I can see you're being sarcastic. I guess I don't find any aspect of MB's case especially funny, so it didn't do anything for me. I can see why the protesters have issues with a young man gunned down by a cop in the middle of the day. I can't see why anyone would have issues with DJ being in protective custody. I don't really see a parallel between the two, at all.

Jumping off your reply to that previous, um, post.

I think DJ may be in PC so that should something happen to him for "snitching", (we do not know what he has told LE) LE will not be blamed for it.

Keeping DJ "safe" is the smartest thing they could do to protect themselves from more pubic accusation. MOO.

 

[EvilSoup]

This mess has gotten to the point of repeat and repeat! It is sickening! I am extremely sorry for the loss of MB. However, I feel his Mom is still pushing the cops are against us card! Why can't or won't she keep her mouth shut? Does she not understand that she keeps inciting these protestors who don't really know why they are protesting?

Had the scenario turned the other way and the officer was killed by an unarmed MB, my instinct tells me we would be looking at the same scenario! Isn't that a pity? Ferguson was ready, willing, and waiting for the right incident to set this off!

So, come on authorities, civil right groups, and the big Whigs from the black groups. What are your plans? We can't hang an innocent man because the citizens demand it to see the evidence. OW, has rights too! Who is protecting his rights?

When did the citizens gain control to call the shots in our justice system? Do you really want to have violence, looting, and protests daily just so the blacks will feel they are getting there say? There are good blacks in Ferguson and these discussions do nor reflect on them. It is like when we discuss Iran or Muslims as being bad, it is only some, not all of them. We appreciate all the community leaders, helpers, and good people who know to stay out of the way of the trouble makers. Thank you sooo very much.

Now if the trouble makers would go home, go to school, return to living. The Pied Piper that started this has probably gone home . Whoever is leading , You need a plan of action - a resolution as to what you want to be fixed, and how? A plan A and a plan B? Is the leader prepared with this? Probably should have a plan C too. It is too serious to just wing it. In fact, we all want to help, you can ask help from a white leader that you respect and trust. Please take everyone's help, then use what works in your plan. Good luck! ��

BBM

Because she is a citizen of the United States of America. The Constitution protects her right to free speech. Surely that applies to all of us, no?

Do you have a link that states MB's mom is responsible for the protests? Thanks in advance.

 

[dandy]

Jumping off your reply to that previous, um, post.

I think DJ may be in PC so that should something happen to him for "snitching", (we do not know what he has told LE) LE will not be blamed for it.

Keeping DJ "safe" is the smartest thing they could do to protect themselves from more pubic accusation. MOO.

to take this 1 step further - can a witness in federal pc be allowed to testify in front of a county grand jury? i'm just trying to figure out if there's gonna be a turf war between them.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ferguson-missouri-cops-start-wearing-body-cameras-report/

Not only will the widespread use of body cams revolutionize policing, it will also revolutionize protesting if every taunt and threat at officers is memorialized.