MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #15

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  • #381
BBM, at MB funeral a family member said: 'the day that he was killed, he was out spreading the word of Jesus Christ,"

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/us/ferguson-michael-brown-funeral/

And he might have been. I have read a lot about people who spread the word of Jesus Christ who weren't the most upstanding individuals. My take...no one individual can be so easily described as a choir boy, a gentle giant, a 🤬🤬🤬🤬 or a gangster. There are so many sides to a person and in most cases we are a mix of a little bit of all of it.
 
  • #382
Just love when politics take over a case like this. Looking at Nixon as much as I am this organization.

With the political cast of characters this has really become quite a circus.
 
  • #383
IF IF IF this goes anywhere, just wait until you hear some of the things that people will have to say about what has gone on with FPD. Just a prediction.

And we'll have to look at the records (which depicts the character/actions/behavior) of those doing the talking, right?
No one should be allowed to make allegations without knowing the fingers will be pointed back at them (as it should be).
 
  • #384
Now that I support. Wonder if it will make one bit of difference to the protestors. I would think it would make them feel more heard and like any existing problem with the department will be investigated and addressed.

Somehow I feel anything short of McCullough removed, ODW charged whether GJ feels he should be or not, trial and conviction is all that will satisfy some of the driving forces behind the continued unrest and protests.

ETR the odd multiquote that appeared from something I discussed yesterday, lol

I think(hope) that a majority of the people would/should be satisfied with this. In fact, it is what they should really be wanting. THIS is what would bring about lasting change, more than one conviction of one officer. I think I've said it before, even if the shooting was unjustified and even if it was shown to be motivated by race, while I would want accountability in that case, that one conviction and that one time feeling of vindication will NOT bring about change. A look at the bigger picture, as this type of investigation would suggest, is what is truly needed. Let the judicial process play out as far as DW goes, but this is more important in my very humble opinion.
 
  • #385
With the political cast of characters this has really become quite a circus.

I can only imagine what all of you from outside of STL think of our city. It's really kind of embarrassing how they've acted. We've had pissing matches between the City and the County. Between the County and the State. Bosley (former politician). French. Jackson. And on and on. Lots of feet being put in lots of mouths.
 
  • #386
And we'll have to look at the records (which depicts the character/actions/behavior) of those doing the talking, right?
No one should be allowed to make allegations without knowing the fingers will be pointed back at them (as it should be).

Oh, I would imagine their credibility will be called into question. But those looking to impeach them had better find convictions from places outside of places like Ferguson and St. Ann and Berkeley and Jennings. But yeah, obviously their credibility would and should be tested because I'm sure there will be a good handful that don't have merit. That was kind of my point.
 
  • #387
And we'll have to look at the records (which depicts the character/actions/behavior) of those doing the talking, right?
No one should be allowed to make allegations without knowing the fingers will be pointed back at them (as it should be).

Agree! Now if only the internet worked that way.
JMO
 
  • #388
If the claim were that MB was a suspect in a 2nd degree murder, then there wouldn't be any charges filed because at that point he would have only been a suspect.

Even the victim's family of the 2nd degree murder victim would not know this until charges are filed under the victim's rights in MO.

I don't think we will actually be able to find this out.

and if he was adjudicated guilty, it is still not a "conviction".

massive word play going on.
 
  • #389
I am not sure where the 'C' is coming from... they are the only one stating that. Everyone else is saying only A & B. jmo

I did a search and found the following info:

Cynthia Harcourt, a lawyer for St. Louis County Juvenile Officer Kip Seely noted that some juvenile records and proceedings are open to the public: those that concern crimes that would be Class A or B felonies if a juvenile had been charged as an adult. But there were none for Brown.

After the hearing, the Post-Dispatch sought out Harcourt to clarify her statement. She told the Post-Dispatch that Brown was not facing any Class A or B charges when he died, either.

Class A felonies include second-degree murder and first-degree robbery; the penalties in adult court range from 10 years in prison to death. Class B felonies include voluntary manslaughter, second-degree robbery and first-degree burglary, with a maximum penalty of five to 15 years.

It is not known whether Brown had ever been accused of lesser offenses. Class C felonies, for example, which include involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault, would become open only if there were two previous adjudications for class A, B or C felonies. That was not the case with Brown.

Joseph E. Martineau of Lewis Rice & Fingersh, attorney for the Post-Dispatch, acknowledged to Siwak that some juvenile court records are confidential under Missouri law.

But he argued that the primary reason to keep them confidential — to protect a child from entering adulthood with the stigma of a criminal record — expired with Brown’s death. He said Siwak had the discretion to open files, and said there was heavy public interest in the details of Brown’s life.

Martineau pointed to a general lack of transparency surrounding the police response to, and investigation of, the shooting. He said opening the juvenile files would “dispel speculation that occurs when proceedings are not open.”

Harcourt derided the claim as pure media curiosity that should not lead the judge to open any confidential records. She said if there were records of felonies, they would have been made public.

She acknowledged that Siwak could open files further but implored her not to, saying the integrity of the family court was on the line. And she said the court of public opinion weighing facts in the Brown case did not require the release of confidential records.

The parents of Michael Brown were represented at the hearing by their attorney, Anthony D. Gray. Although he did not speak in the hearing, outside the courtroom he blasted the Post-Dispatch and Johnson for requesting the juvenile files.

There was one reason, and one only, the organizations wanted to view the files, he said: “The character assassination of Mike Brown.”

St. Louis Post-Dispatch editor Gilbert Bailon disputed the idea that seeking any juvenile records was designed to impugn Michael Brown.

“We are a news organization that pursues facts, which are the basis of coverage. Innuendo and speculation through various forms of media have raised questions about whether Michael Brown had a criminal record. We are seeking to find those facts without prejudgment or bias.”

“It is ironic that today’s new information appears favorable to Michael Brown by stating he had no record of adult or serious juvenile crimes, yet some have characterized the pursuit of that information as damaging to Michael Brown,’’ Bailon said.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_43c9bbbb-356f-5ea6-b9e2-7dde7e3e5c83.html
 
  • #390
[h=1]Missouri police organization blasts Nixon for Ferguson comments[/h]
"These comments clearly do not reflect what society wants and law enforcement expects, which is a complete and thorough investigation, regardless who the victim or defendant may be. Your use of the phrase 'vigorous prosecution,' suggests guilt before due process, which results in no justice for the families, law enforcement and society," the letter says.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_5137b697-73b3-59dd-9c0c-b018fd06d77b.html

I was talking to an LEO about the case over the weekend and asked him about a support Darren Wilson pic I had seen on FB from the St Louis police hockey team. Said "We are Darren Wilson" on top and their support on the bottom.

I was concerned about the optics, and wondered if he thought it was a mistake.

He said they did it because they are confident, because the evidence and eyewitness testimony (not the ones all over the media) is leaking and it's so supportive of Wilson's version of events.

He said the only problem now is putting together a presentation of why the grand jury says no true bill without causing a meltdown.

Take this however you wish. I don't know who he has been talking to.

I thought it made sense, and it would also explain a few other things.

JMO My 2cts FWIW etc etc
 
  • #391
Oh, I would imagine their credibility will be called into question. But those looking to impeach them had better find convictions from places outside of places like Ferguson and St. Ann and Berkeley and Jennings. But yeah, obviously their credibility would and should be tested because I'm sure there will be a good handful that don't have merit. That was kind of my point.

Right....it's a two-way street & I think most people understand that once the emotions quell a bit.
Personally, I think it's tough to be a cop & it's tough to be a young man growing up in poverty too.
I can see many points to both sides.
Where I get concerned is when things get taken to extremes without much factual basis.
And that's why the truth matters so much.

We all will hear it, I'm sure.
 
  • #392
  • #393
I did a search and found the following info:

Cynthia Harcourt, a lawyer for St. Louis County Juvenile Officer Kip Seely noted that some juvenile records and proceedings are open to the public: those that concern crimes that would be Class A or B felonies if a juvenile had been charged as an adult. But there were none for Brown.

After the hearing, the Post-Dispatch sought out Harcourt to clarify her statement. She told the Post-Dispatch that Brown was not facing any Class A or B charges when he died, either.

Class A felonies include second-degree murder and first-degree robbery; the penalties in adult court range from 10 years in prison to death. Class B felonies include voluntary manslaughter, second-degree robbery and first-degree burglary, with a maximum penalty of five to 15 years.

It is not known whether Brown had ever been accused of lesser offenses. Class C felonies, for example, which include involuntary manslaughter and second-degree assault, would become open only if there were two previous adjudications for class A, B or C felonies. That was not the case with Brown.

Joseph E. Martineau of Lewis Rice & Fingersh, attorney for the Post-Dispatch, acknowledged to Siwak that some juvenile court records are confidential under Missouri law.

But he argued that the primary reason to keep them confidential — to protect a child from entering adulthood with the stigma of a criminal record — expired with Brown’s death. He said Siwak had the discretion to open files, and said there was heavy public interest in the details of Brown’s life.

Martineau pointed to a general lack of transparency surrounding the police response to, and investigation of, the shooting. He said opening the juvenile files would “dispel speculation that occurs when proceedings are not open.”

Harcourt derided the claim as pure media curiosity that should not lead the judge to open any confidential records. She said if there were records of felonies, they would have been made public.

She acknowledged that Siwak could open files further but implored her not to, saying the integrity of the family court was on the line. And she said the court of public opinion weighing facts in the Brown case did not require the release of confidential records.

The parents of Michael Brown were represented at the hearing by their attorney, Anthony D. Gray. Although he did not speak in the hearing, outside the courtroom he blasted the Post-Dispatch and Johnson for requesting the juvenile files.

There was one reason, and one only, the organizations wanted to view the files, he said: “The character assassination of Mike Brown.”

St. Louis Post-Dispatch editor Gilbert Bailon disputed the idea that seeking any juvenile records was designed to impugn Michael Brown.

“We are a news organization that pursues facts, which are the basis of coverage. Innuendo and speculation through various forms of media have raised questions about whether Michael Brown had a criminal record. We are seeking to find those facts without prejudgment or bias.”

“It is ironic that today’s new information appears favorable to Michael Brown by stating he had no record of adult or serious juvenile crimes, yet some have characterized the pursuit of that information as damaging to Michael Brown,’’ Bailon said.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_43c9bbbb-356f-5ea6-b9e2-7dde7e3e5c83.html

Also, Brown family lawyer said this...

Gray argued that even if Brown did have a brush with the juvenile court system -- including for such low-level offenses as truancy -- those details are irrelevant to the question of whether Wilson acted with excessive force.

http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Michael-Brown-had-no-felony-convictions-outstanding-charges-273786371.html

Yes, he has a record. jmo
 
  • #394
So why doesn't he just spill it instead of being irritating? :scared:

Charles J. has already published an article about today's events. It is on his website and has been for several hours. Accurate details. He does not slant his reporting like some must do in order to keep their job.

This story is not the only one that Mr. Johns*n is working on at this time. He is quite a busy man with a number of important stories to research and publish.

JMO
 
  • #395
Well there was that one witness who spoke with him while MB was on the way to the store to steal the swishers. He allegedly told that gentleman he was feeling bad vibes and that his savior Jesus Christ would have his back.

According to a man who spoke with Mike Brown before he went to the store:
This man preferred to be anonymous and told Fox2 News that he’d seen Brown and spoke with him before Brown went to the convenient store. The man claims Brown felt “bad vibes” and that the “Lord Jesus Christ” would help him get through it. The man said that Brown told him they would finish their conversation after he returned from the store.

http://hellobeautiful.com/2014/08/20/witnesses-to-michael-browns-murder/


Shrug. So if that is a true account and not added color, in a way he was spreading the word about his lord. It was said that he was developing his relationship with religion in recent months. I think that is entirely possible. So the person could take it in that vein I think.

and here is where the embeded link leads to FOX2's off camera voice altered interview w the man:

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/12/witness-claims-he-saw-what-happened-when-michael-brown-was-shot/

ETA I know lots of people who are good at talking the talk but are not walking the walk. I tend to agree with reedus on this one
 
  • #396
  • #397
#Q13FOX News ‏@Q13FOX 2m
JUST IN: The US Justice Department is getting ready to launch an investigation into practices, training of Ferguson, MO. police department.

Now that I support. Wonder if it will make one bit of difference to the protestors. I would think it would make them feel more heard and like any existing problem with the department will be investigated and addressed.

Somehow I feel anything short of McCullough removed, ODW charged whether GJ feels he should be or not, trial and conviction is all that will satisfy some of the driving forces behind the continued unrest and protests.

ETR the odd multiquote that appeared from something I discussed yesterday, lol
Same here, tlc. :thumbup::)

I think that everyone needs to remember too that the current Ferguson police chief has only been there since 2012.

Here's the only link I can find real quick.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jackson_(police_officer)

I remember reading early on that he was brought in and has been working hard to fix things in the department, including hiring more AAs. If I find it after dinner, I'll post.

Point being, I think there should be a dividing line in our judgments of the police force between pre-Thomases term and since he stepped in two years ago.
 
  • #398
I was talking to an LEO about the case over the weekend and asked him about a support Darren Wilson pic I had seen on FB from the St Louis police hockey team. Said "We are Darren Wilson" on top and their support on the bottom.

I was concerned about the optics, and wondered if he thought it was a mistake.

He said they did it because they are confident, because the evidence and eyewitness testimony (not the ones all over the media) is leaking and it's so supportive of Wilson's version of events.

He said the only problem now is putting together a presentation of why the grand jury says no true bill without causing a meltdown.

Take this however you wish. I don't know who he has been talking to.

I thought it made sense, and it would also explain a few other things.

JMO My 2cts FWIW etc etc

I don't know if that changes a single thing. More than anything, it's about appearances and showing outward support for the one they are supposed to be investigating is simply wrong. It calls their bias into question, even if it has been a completely thorough investigation. It calls into question exactly why they are so confident.
 
  • #399
I was talking to an LEO about the case over the weekend and asked him about a support Darren Wilson pic I had seen on FB from the St Louis police hockey team. Said "We are Darren Wilson" on top and their support on the bottom.

I was concerned about the optics, and wondered if he thought it was a mistake.

He said they did it because they are confident, because the evidence and eyewitness testimony (not the ones all over the media) is leaking and it's so supportive of Wilson's version of events.

He said the only problem now is putting together a presentation of why the grand jury says no true bill without causing a meltdown.

Take this however you wish. I don't know who he has been talking to.

I thought it made sense, and it would also explain a few other things.

JMO My 2cts FWIW etc etc
Yes, I was told the same thing about the case... just so much not being put out there. jmo etc etc
 
  • #400
Anderson Cooper is discussing the MB case right now.
 
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