MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[jjenny]

My shock finally ended last night when while on twitter, I saw the 'MB DID pay for the cigars, see this video that LE doesn't want you to see.'

Seriously, y'all! I kid not

Especially ironic, since LE was accused of slander for releasing that same video. Which doesn't show MB paying for the cigars, by the way.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

BBM
This is racist and if you don't think so, substitute Bob McCulloch is a "white man" first and foremost and can't do his job with no other basis for that conclusion.

Right, I agree that our AG adding in his race in his speech was racist. It's unimportant where justice, evidence & investigation concerns & is downright divisive.

 

[sonjay]

BBM
This is racist and if you don't think so, substitute Bob McCulloch is a "white man" first and foremost and can't do his job with no other basis for that conclusion.

Has McCulloch ever said anything like, "I'm a prosecutor, but I'm also a white man"?

Eric Holder said, “I am the attorney general of the United States. But I am also a black man.” If anyone made it all about race, Mr. Holder did. Mr. Holder has made it abundantly clear that he views everything through the prism of his race. It's not racist to point that out.

 

[jjenny]

BBM
This is racist and if you don't think so, substitute Bob McCulloch is a "white man" first and foremost and can't do his job with no other basis for that conclusion.

AG Holder is the one who brought up his race. Apparently he feels it's very important what race he is. No?

 

[mdana]

As I have stated before I don't know what happened & have not made up my mind if the shooting was justified. I only give witnesses that saw the interaction any credibility as witnesses. I mentioned in one of the earlier threads that I felt shooting at MB as he fled was problematic for OW. I have a problem with posters that keep criticizing others for not believing the witnesses. I believe parts of what they say but have a hard time picturing what transpired especially when factoring in the audio tape & the shotstopper report. Maybe I'm just not as perceptive as y'all. Now a question for those that lean towards OW being unjustified in shooting at a fleeing MB.( you know who you are) IF OW had missed or only winged a fleeing MB that escaped or MB successfully surrendered after turning around do you think OW would be charged with a crime? Do you think he should be & if so what?

BBM-I can't speak for others, and people like you that are skeptical but open minded are not the problem IMO, we are not that different. I try to be objective, critical, and analytical in all cases I follow. It is the blanket discrediting of all witnesses as being coached or liars, that I have a problem. Eyewitnesses are problematic in any case, because humans are not infallible and sometimes focus on unimportant factors and ignore, don't see, or forget crucial details.

Too many variables under your hypothetical, but you would get MB's version of events, which would give an officer or prosecutor a better idea on if charges should be presented. That is why self-defense cases are so difficult. We don't have any good idea of what happened in the car. I don't know if DJ is being deceptive, he wasn't paying attention, or it just was not that memorable, because later events pushed what happened down the pecking order in terms of importance and ability to recall.

 

[Oceans]

My shock finally ended last night when while on twitter, I saw the 'MB DID pay for the cigars, see this video that LE doesn't want you to see.'

Seriously, y'all! I kid not

If this were true, MB's lawyers would have shouted it from the rooftop, IMO.

And Dorian Johnson would have proudly given interviews about it instead of avoiding the topic and placing it into the "it's not relevant" drawer, following his lawyer's example, IMO.

There was as well the police report, stating "Strong-armed robbery" with MB's and DJ's identifications.

The employee of the store spoke to FBI as well, IIRC.

IMO, the video is authentic and the charges as well.

 

[popsicle]

Capt Ron Johnson did as well.

 

[Lovejac]

BBM
This is racist and if you don't think so, substitute Bob McCulloch is a "white man" first and foremost and can't do his job with no other basis for that conclusion.

ITA. He was very wrong to say that because it is racist.

 

[mdana]

I'm admittedly slow today, but I'm not sure how anyone is getting to a "half a dozen" witnesses who counter ODW's version?

I see
Darian Johnson
Piaget
Tiffany
... Mike Brady, who I'm not sure about, but his statements have "evolved" too

Who am I missing?

Sent via Tapatalk

The two maintenance workers that were working the area at the time of the shooting.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_14a3e5f8-6c6a-5deb-92fe-87fcee622c29.html

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

If MB had paid for the cigarillos, then why would the store clerk call 911?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I initially fell for the story as originally reported -- racist white cop, innocent black teen gunned down for no reason. It's not likely, but there are some very very bad cops out there, and this case could have involved one of those. FTR, I firmly believe that most cops are good, but I recognize the existence of bad ones. Criminal/evil/racist/corrupt cops are, IMO, far worse than any garden-variety street criminal, and I was ready to hate OW.

But as more evidence came out, and I began to get a truer picture of what actually happened, I fairly quickly changed my thinking, and I now believe that MB assaulted OW and would have assaulted him again and/or killed him if OW hadn't shot him. The strong-arm robbery, the assault at the car, and the turning around and approaching/charging/stumbling toward OW.... those are not the actions of an innocent little boy on his way to grandma's house.

However, I was still concerned about the response of the police to the protests, and the apparent disconnect between the FPD and the residents of Ferguson, and other issues that have been raised. I thought the MB case was the wrong case to use as a platform to address those issues, but I still cared about those issues.

Sadly, the MB side has gone so over the top, and so willfully ignores basic truths, and is so rabid in its condemnation of OW, that my attitude has become more one-sided and entrenched in direct inverse proportion to the deliberate disingenuousness of the other side. At this point, I no longer care whether the Ferguson PD has any corruption or any racist cops, and I no longer care about the protesters' rights to protest, and I no longer care if black people in Ferguson get stopped by police disproportionately. This case has become a caricature of itself, and I now just want to see OW cleared and able to move on with his life. After that happens, I'll be willing to revisit the other problems, but when the MB side makes it all about wanting OW dead, I'm just not interested in anything else they have to say.

Post of the year! You rock!:loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou:

 

[al66pine]

hopefully at the next city council meeting - they'll pass a law that requires a permit to hold a rally. sheesh - at least the street should be blocked off from traffic - for the safety of the protestors and citizens.

bbm

dandy, seems a city ordinance covers this already, if ppl will be in streets.
Briefly, unlawful to organize/conduct parade or procession, or to participate w/out permit permit issued by chief of PD.
IDK if this w/apply to a sidewalk rally if ppl are not in streets.


From City of Ferguson Ordinances, at link below, w my bolding:
ARTICLE VI. - PARADES AND PROCESSIONS
Sec. 44-316. - Permit required, exception.
(a)
It shall be unlawful to conduct any parade or procession, and for any person to participate in any parade or procession comprised of
more than six (6) vehicles or a group of pedestrians more than eight (8) feet in width or more than forty (40) feet in length,
under the direction of one (1) or more persons, except in accordance with a permit issued by the chief of police.

Parade permits shall designate the street or streets such procession shall traverse and the hours of the day within which the same shall proceed. The chief of police may issue any such permit with the approval of the city manager; provided, however, that the military forces of the United States and the state, the personnel of the police and fire departments of the city and funeral processions shall be exempt from the provisions of this section.

(b)
An application for a permit to conduct a parade or procession shall be made to the chief of police of the city at least seventy-two (72) hours prior to the conducting of the same. The application shall contain the name and address of the applicant, the time, date and route of the proposed parade or procession and a description of any special equipment or vehicle to be used. If the information set forth on the application shall meet the requirements of this section, the chief of police shall issue a permit for the parade or procession; provided, no such permit shall be issued if the nature or conduct of any parade or procession might tend to be dangerous or harmful to the public health, safety and welfare of the residents of the city.
(Code 1973, § 42.52)
State law reference— Similar provisions, RSMo 300.325.
https://www.municode.com/library/mo...s/PTIICOOR_CH44TRMOVE_ARTVIPAPR_S44-316PEREEX

Sections of city ordinance applicable to pedestrians, but not seeming to cover a rally, if not held in streets.
https://www.municode.com/library/mo/ferguson/code_of_ordinances/toc/PTIICOOR_CH44TRMOVE_ARTVIIPE

And link to TOC for city ordinances:
https://www.municode.com/library/mo/ferguson/code_of_ordinances/toc/PTIICOOR

Finally the city's website:
http://www.fergusoncity.com/

 

[teedie2]

Eyewitnesses saw:
1 cop
3 cops
OW drive over MBs feet :facepalm:
Saw MB with his hands up.
Saw MB with his hands down.
Saw MB with his hands down facing inward.
Saw MB with his hands down facing outward.
:juggling::kickcan::drama:

Don't forget that one eyewitness saw MB move ONE CENTIMETER toward DW. What an eye for distance!

jmo

 

[Footwarrior]

If MB had paid for the cigarillos, then why would the store clerk call 911?

The store clerk did not call 911.

 

[katydid23]

BBM
This is racist and if you don't think so, substitute Bob McCulloch is a "white man" first and foremost and can't do his job with no other basis for that conclusion.

It is Holder HIMSELF that is placing himself out there, labeled as a 'black man first.' You know that , right? It was not Atasteofhoney saying that. it was our AG saying that about himself.

 

[katydid23]

The store clerk did not call 911.

the store customer did. But the store clerk signed the police report and theft complaint.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

BBM
This is racist and if you don't think so, substitute Bob McCulloch is a "white man" first and foremost and can't do his job with no other basis for that conclusion.

No, you misunderstood. She isn't saying because he is black that he can't act appropriately or decide the case. She's saying because he explicitly commented that he is a black man first and foremost implying some sense of racial allegiance in a case that requires factual determination of the evidence and not assigning guilt or innocence based on race.

So right, if McCulloch came out tomorrow and said I'm a white guy first and foremost, and because of that I want to make sure DW is vindicated, that would be the same level of racism.

 

[reedus23]

Has there been a separate thread for the FPD investigation created? Or has that idea been nixed? Been out of the loop for the last couple of days. TIA

 

[Footwarrior]

Has there been a separate thread for the FPD investigation created? Or has that idea been nixed? Been out of the loop for the last couple of days. TIA

I doubt there will be much worth discussing at this time. When the investigation is over and we have a report and recommendations there may be plenty to discuss.

 

[DebinGA]

I wonder if the store video had audio that wasn't released? I wonder if the store had a video camera behind the register whose tape we haven't seen? What did MB hoist himself up and reach under the counter to get, lottery tickets?