MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[nothingnew]

You mean like 'how dare you shoot at me' or 'I can't believe you just shot at me'? ITA

Neither. I think it's the tree man watching and raising his hands like "what the heck did I just see?"
I don't think he was imitating MB.

 

[K_Z]

AG Holder is the one who brought up his race. Apparently he feels it's very important what race he is. No?

ITA. He was very wrong to say that because it is racist.

I agree with Taste of Honey above, that AG Holder saying he is a "black man" in THAT context, under THOSE circumstances, is an absolute abomination to his office. Far beyond being merely inappropriate, that comment, IMO, was more racial instigation, and from a sitting AG that is dangerously irresponsible and provocative.

I personally believe he should be fired and removed from office for that comment. I cannot fathom why there is not more outrage from the general public, or Congress, or calls for his firing or resignation. IMO, that comment reveals that he is wholly unsuited for the office of AG. That comment was used by him intentionally, in a way to identify which racial "side" he was supporting before ANY investigation was complete-- irrespective of ANYTHING ELSE about the case. He actually ANNOUNCED that he was TAKING A RACIAL SIDE, and not at ALL interested in real truth or justice. It is completely, utterly outrageous. I have lost a tremendous amount of respect for him. I think he should resign.

Imagine if other politicians, or Supreme Court Justices, began their opinions and speeches with:

"As a White president, I believe......"
"I am a Hispanic, female Supreme Court Justice, and I......."

This kind of language, from the actual AG of the U.S. sets back race relations more than 100 years. Does absolutely nothing at all to moderate the situation, quell the riots, or rationally look at what actually happened. If anything, IMO, AG Holder's "I am a black man" comment was a tacit approval message to the rioters (not protestors, rioters) to go right on rioting, looting, and burning-- because "I understand because I am a black man, and I'll make sure you wont be held responsible for any of that."

It was a deeply offensive remark to every single citizen in this country, regardless of race or ethnicity. Every single citizen should be offended by that, IMO. Utterly and completely outrageous.

But as upset as I am at that remark, I'm sure not going to go burn my house down over it, or loot the local stores. I wonder why I don't feel like burning my local grocery store down, or spending the afternoon looting? I mean, I could have DEMANDS. I think AG Holder be fired for this remark. Hmmm.

No, a middle aged white woman burning and looting just wouldn't have the desired effect, I guess. People might think I'm crazy or something, or a criminal.

 

[tlcya]

If MB had paid for the cigarillos, then why would the store clerk call 911?

TasteOfHoney, your point is valid although I feel I should clarify in the interest of accuracy that neither the clerk nor the store owner reportedly called 911. A concerned customer reportedly did. It is my belief that the store owner may not have intended to report the theft. Now whether he would have or not or whether if he did not intend to was due to fear of repercussions from MB or others in the neighborhood we cannot know.

But a customer was worried enough about what he or she saw that they phoned 911 to report the incident.

 

[mdana]

If MB had paid for the cigarillos, then why would the store clerk call 911?

It was customer if I am not mistaken that made the 911 call.

 

[DebinGA]

If it wasn't the male clerk who called 911, it was more likely the female clerk seen returning to the second register from somewhere in back. The black female customer who entered the store with a child seems very unlikely to have made the call, given the 2 employees there. I hope some pro bono outfit will represent the female customer put in danger by the public claim of the store's attorney that it was a customer who called 911, as she and her child are clearly seen in the video iirc.

 

[DebinGA]

If MB had paid for the cigarillos, then why would the store clerk call 911?

If MB had paid for the cigarillos, why did DJ carefully return MB's gift to the counter?

 

[mdana]

Right, I agree that our AG adding in his race in his speech was racist. It's unimportant where justice, evidence & investigation concerns & is downright divisive.

He stated a fact and you are taking it out of context and impugning his professionalism. He stated he was a black man when speaking with community leaders worried about getting a fair investigation, because of past incidents and the overwhelming majority of white officers on the Ferguson and St. Louis Co. police departments. Are you arguing he is not? Are you arguing he injected sex into the discussion, because he stated he was a man? Now he is a misogyinst according to your criteria?

The AG works for all of us, the community of Ferguson and the LE community. Both MB and OW deserve to have a fair investigation on the shooting. If you have evidence that his actions as AG have been racist or biased, then please share. If not leave the politics and charges of reverse racism out of the discussion, since the moderators seem to think this thread has become too political.

MOO

 

[K_Z]

I initially fell for the story as originally reported -- racist white cop, innocent black teen gunned down for no reason. It's not likely, but there are some very very bad cops out there, and this case could have involved one of those. FTR, I firmly believe that most cops are good, but I recognize the existence of bad ones. Criminal/evil/racist/corrupt cops are, IMO, far worse than any garden-variety street criminal, and I was ready to hate OW.

But as more evidence came out, and I began to get a truer picture of what actually happened, I fairly quickly changed my thinking, and I now believe that MB assaulted OW and would have assaulted him again and/or killed him if OW hadn't shot him. The strong-arm robbery, the assault at the car, and the turning around and approaching/charging/stumbling toward OW.... those are not the actions of an innocent little boy on his way to grandma's house.

However, I was still concerned about the response of the police to the protests, and the apparent disconnect between the FPD and the residents of Ferguson, and other issues that have been raised. I thought the MB case was the wrong case to use as a platform to address those issues, but I still cared about those issues.

Sadly, the MB side has gone so over the top, and so willfully ignores basic truths, and is so rabid in its condemnation of OW, that my attitude has become more one-sided and entrenched in direct inverse proportion to the deliberate disingenuousness of the other side. At this point, I no longer care whether the Ferguson PD has any corruption or any racist cops, and I no longer care about the protesters' rights to protest, and I no longer care if black people in Ferguson get stopped by police disproportionately. This case has become a caricature of itself, and I now just want to see OW cleared and able to move on with his life. After that happens, I'll be willing to revisit the other problems, but when the MB side makes it all about wanting OW dead, I'm just not interested in anything else they have to say.

Exactly. You nailed the real issues, sonjay. Thank you for writing such a brave, honest post.

 

[Linda7NJ]

He stated a fact and you are taking it out of context and impugning his professionalism. He stated he was a black man when speaking with community leaders worried about getting a fair investigation, because of past incidents and the overwhelming majority of white officers on the Ferguson and St. Louis Co. police departments. Are you arguing he is not? Are you arguing he injected sex into the discussion, because he stated he was a man? Now he is a misogyinst according to your criteria?

The AG works for all of us, the community of Ferguson and the LE community. Both MB and OW deserve to have a fair investigation on the shooting. If you have evidence that his actions as AG have been racist or biased, then please share. If not leave the politics and charges of reverse racism out of the discussion, since the moderators seem to think this thread has become too political.

MOO

I don't believe his audience was blind.


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[Dana]

I don't believe his audience was blind.


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Ya know Linda, I never need to post while you're here since you say exactly everything I'm thinking LOL and concisely I might add!

 

[BirdycatNY]

BBM-
I don't know if DJ is being deceptive, he wasn't paying attention, or it just was not that memorable, because later events pushed what happened down the pecking order in terms of importance and ability to recall.

You are right, none of us "know" if DJ is purposely lying or if so, why. But given DJ's past incident(s) of deception ( I think making false statements?, correct me if that's wrong) and the fact(s) that the autopsies/physical evidence contradict/may contradict his version(s), his credibility and reliability is in question. It's also possible DJ ran like the wind once MB/OW started to fight in car and therefore has no clue what happened. But he would look like a "coward" if he told people that, right? This may be like the story of the boy who cried wolf, but who knows.

You are absolutely correct that eye-witness accounts have reliability issues in any case regardless of an individual's motive. I think this was a stressful event for bystanders, so they may not see/remember things clearly just because of the circumstances. But I think people would be hard-pressed to ignore one or more witness(es) may have some other motive. all imo and speculation.

 

[tlcya]

The owner of the store dispute the claim that they or an employee called 911, saying a customer inside the store made the call. They also say St. Louis County issues the warrants for the hard drive of surveillance video Friday.

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/store-owners-talk-about-surveillance-released/

We have no clue how many customers may have been in the store or how many areas of the store are not covered by the video cameras. Further we have no idea of what footage has not been released of the interior of the store because those images did not feature MB, DJ or their activity within the store.

It is a huge leap IMO to assume that the female customer with a child seen in the released footage was the only other customer present and therefore the one who made the call to police reporting the swisher theft and assault on the store owner. That suggestion IMO is what places that lady in possible danger. Not any statements from the store owner or his attorney. MOO JMO etc

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

https://news.vice.com/article/things-in-ferguson-are-going-to-change-for-real


Please, do not confuse some people with the truth. Understand it, or not; like it or not, some people's thought patterns only operate on an emotional level. I know so many people like that.

Or as a friend of mine is fond of saying when he's losing a heated debate: "Don't confuse the issue with facts!"

 

[DebinGA]

The female customer with child is the only customer seen in the video except for Unknown Guy (UG) who entered and left with MB/DJ and was obviously "with" them if the whole tape is seen beginning with UG's entrance and his prolonged exit where he stations himself holding the store door open during the robbery and until DJ slithers out as MB menaces/shoves the clerk. While there may have been other customers in the store, only UG, DJ, MB, the female/child customer, and the two store employees, were seen in the released store video.

 

[Apollo]

He stated a fact and you are taking it out of context and impugning his professionalism. He stated he was a black man when speaking with community leaders worried about getting a fair investigation, because of past incidents and the overwhelming majority of white officers on the Ferguson and St. Louis Co. police departments. Are you arguing he is not? Are you arguing he injected sex into the discussion, because he stated he was a man? Now he is a misogyinst according to your criteria?

The AG works for all of us, the community of Ferguson and the LE community. Both MB and OW deserve to have a fair investigation on the shooting. If you have evidence that his actions as AG have been racist or biased, then please share. If not leave the politics and charges of reverse racism out of the discussion, since the moderators seem to think this thread has become too political.

MOO

Then the Chief of Police in Ferguson should have been able to get up and say "I'm white and even though whites are the minority in Ferguson, I'm going to make sure OW is treated fairly" They would be screaming for his resignation. Oh wait, they already are without that kind of speech being given.

 

[mdana]

Has McCulloch ever said anything like, "I'm a prosecutor, but I'm also a white man"?

Eric Holder said, “I am the attorney general of the United States. But I am also a black man.” If anyone made it all about race, Mr. Holder did. Mr. Holder has made it abundantly clear that he views everything through the prism of his race. It's not racist to point that out.

I believe Holder was questioned about his ability to be impartial and not pre-judge MB by others. McCulluch has answered questions about his ability to do his job in an impartial manner due to his family ties to LE. No one is questioning McCulluch is white or biased against white people. Holder has been criticized as being biased against blacks for not doing enough for them in terms of racial profiling cases and voter suppression by some black leaders.

He was trying to calm down the situation in the area, and I think the situation improved after his meeting.

MOO

 

[popsicle]

You peeps are banging out some excellent posts today. Bravo!

 

[mdana]

If this were true, MB's lawyers would have shouted it from the rooftop, IMO.

And Dorian Johnson would have proudly given interviews about it instead of avoiding the topic and placing it into the "it's not relevant" drawer, following his lawyer's example, IMO.

There was as well the police report, stating "Strong-armed robbery" with MB's and DJ's identifications.

The employee of the store spoke to FBI as well, IIRC.

IMO, the video is authentic and the charges as well.

Don't assume that Crump and Parks are good lawyers. They are more experienced in civil suits and getting settlements. The best lawyer working for the Brown family is Gray in MO. The one working for DJ the former St. Louis mayor is just phoning it in and using as free publicity. If they had better representation, I think the case would be viewed differently by some people.

MOO

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It was customer if I am not mistaken that made the 911 call.

Ok & the store clerk signed the police report.
The point is that it is highly doubtful that it would be done if there was no incident there. And the videos we've seen backs that MB stole cigarillos & strong armed the store staff.

 

[K_Z]

He stated a fact and you are taking it out of context and impugning his professionalism. He stated he was a black man when speaking with community leaders worried about getting a fair investigation, because of past incidents and the overwhelming majority of white officers on the Ferguson and St. Louis Co. police departments. Are you arguing he is not? Are you arguing he injected sex into the discussion, because he stated he was a man? Now he is a misogyinst according to your criteria?

The AG works for all of us, the community of Ferguson and the LE community. Both MB and OW deserve to have a fair investigation on the shooting. If you have evidence that his actions as AG have been racist or biased, then please share. If not leave the politics and charges of reverse racism out of the discussion, since the moderators seem to think this thread has become too political.

MOO

As Linda7NJ said, the audience was not blind. He wasn't clarifying anything of fact. He wasn't answering questions as to whether he was a different race, or bi-racial. It was as ridiculous as if he had stood up and prefaced his remarks with "I am genetically male, and have 2 kidneys."

The comment was not a statement of fact. He's an attorney, and a very smart man. He knows exactly what he was saying, and who he was sending his "message" to. The comment was used to telegraph racial solidarity ahead of any other priority, and his personal and official agreement/ approval of the racial protests and complaints, IMO. Without any attempt to be a finder of fact, which is what the justice department is charged with. He should be ashamed, and resign, IMO.