MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #16

[Clar]

I think you're missing the point. Why don't more white people have warrants? Because all whites are responsible? Why are so many of the warrants disproportionately for blacks? It's not whether or not a particular person should have a warrant, but what about the enforcement is leading to such a disparity and being so lopsidedly oppressive for one group but not the other.

IMO

I just want to point out with what I see as a problem with your train of thought. I thought about it in the reverse because it makes sense..

"but what about the enforcement is leading to such a disparity and being so lopsidedly oppressive for one group but not the other."

What if that is the perception? If that is the case, then would that group of people feel inclined to follow a system they feel is against them..

"It's not whether or not a particular person should have a warrant"

It should be though, as the warrant means that typically justification was require to attain it.

"Why are so many of the warrants disproportionately for blacks?"

Well, I'd suspect that if a group, in this case those of black skin color was feeling a system was working against them, they might be less prone to following those rules, as they might innately perceive that system as against them anyways.

"Because all whites are responsible?"

I think this sort of high-lights the problem, all whites are not responsible, and they also suffer the consequences of their actions. I suspect this closes off with the last part...

"Why don't more white people have warrants?"

I think there is a matter of that whites more likely talk less about it, its unlikely to see a white song glorifying criminal activity in the last 80 or so years. We are also typically less tightly knit, ever notice theres no such thing as "white history month?" outside of maybe neo-nazi circles? Whites are taught that because they are white that they are the source of many problems others experience, whites are taught to suffer in silence, because to speak out is to be a racist. I think they have warrants, they just tend to sit down and eat it. I mean some of the most notorious monsters on trial are actually white such as P. Bernardo, R. Williams, J.W Gacy.

I think sometimes people commit crimes, sometimes they get away with it, sometimes they don't. What if on the flip side...sometimes we hear about it, sometimes we don't.

Just some food for thought.

For what its worth however, I do believe that black skinned people in the USA do get the short end of the stick, but I do also believe some of the most public ones are not the ones whom need defending, but rather the stioc unsensational individuals who are stuck languishing in a cell, or forced into poverty for crimes of circumstance.

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

We tried to give Pops a raise, but it wasn't in the budget. So this is how we pay Pops :loveyou: :blowkiss:

Yeah, Pops rocks!:loveyou::cheers::dance:

 

[Dana]

:waiting:

 

[momrids6]

Actually they find drugs on whites much more often when they search them, but still search cars owned by POC much more frequently.
So...... nope.
The link has been posted a few times, would you like it?

I would think a lawsuit would be much more productive than looting one's own neighborhood and throwing pee and fire bombs at LE.

I live in the rural South. Every car stopped on I-95 within County limits is searched. Not worth speeding through here- as one will be spending at least a half hour on the side of the road.

 

[fran]

:modstop:

This thread is about Michael Brown and the shooting incident.

Please stay on topic.

tia
fran
:wave:

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

I was a child sexual abuse survivor, starting about age 5 lasting for a few years.
It created some very bad symptoms which I dealt with for my teen years, like promiscuity and drug use.
My first husband was a cheater and an abuser.
So NO, I am not so LUCKY. :no:

But I went to many incest survivor counselor groups over the years, and FOUGHT HARD to heal and become healthy again.

So NOOOOO, I don't make excuses for anyone who says they cannot figure out a way to drive legally.

Yep, it's obvious from posts throughout these threads that there are many of us who are rape survivors and domestic violence survivors, not to mention victims of other crimes, etc. And yet many of us have also "risen above all that" and gone on to be productive citizens. I work with people who are in similar shoes who try their best to leave the word "victim" in the dust and turn it into "victor." NONE of them (or "us" that I know of) use the nightmares of their (or "our") pasts to excuse present unlawful behaviors.

 

[Truthy]

I would think a lawsuit would be much more productive than looting one's own neighborhood and throwing pee and fire bombs at LE.

I live in the rural South. Every car stopped on I-95 within County limits is searched. Not worth speeding through here- as one will be spending at least a half hour on the side of the road.

Every car is searched? You guys need a DOJ investigation- that would be illegal!

Why would anyone want to live like that? It boggles the mind what people will put up with- until it hurts them. MOO>

 

[Truthy]

IMO

I just want to point out with what I see as a problem with your train of thought. I thought about it in the reverse because it makes sense..

"but what about the enforcement is leading to such a disparity and being so lopsidedly oppressive for one group but not the other."

What if that is the perception? If that is the case, then would that group of people feel inclined to follow a system they feel is against them..

"It's not whether or not a particular person should have a warrant"

It should be though, as the warrant means that typically justification was require to attain it.

"Why are so many of the warrants disproportionately for blacks?"

Well, I'd suspect that if a group, in this case those of black skin color was feeling a system was working against them, they might be less prone to following those rules, as they might innately perceive that system as against them anyways.

"Because all whites are responsible?"

I think this sort of high-lights the problem, all whites are not responsible, and they also suffer the consequences of their actions. I suspect this closes off with the last part...

"Why don't more white people have warrants?"

I think there is a matter of that whites more likely talk less about it, its unlikely to see a white song glorifying criminal activity in the last 80 or so years. We are also typically less tightly knit, ever notice theres no such thing as "white history month?" outside of maybe neo-nazi circles? Whites are taught that because they are white that they are the source of many problems others experience, whites are taught to suffer in silence, because to speak out is to be a racist. I think they have warrants, they just tend to sit down and eat it. I mean some of the most notorious monsters on trial are actually white such as P. Bernardo, R. Williams, J.W Gacy.

I think sometimes people commit crimes, sometimes they get away with it, sometimes they don't. What if on the flip side...sometimes we hear about it, sometimes we don't.

Just some food for thought.

For what its worth however, I do believe that black skinned people in the USA do get the short end of the stick, but I do also believe some of the most public ones are not the ones whom need defending, but rather the stioc unsensational individuals who are stuck languishing in a cell, or forced into poverty for crimes of circumstance.

Yoo?
None of this aligns with what the studies say. Want links?

 

[katydid23]

Every car is searched? You guys need a DOJ investigation- that would be illegal!

Why would anyone want to live like that? It boggles the mind what people will put up with- until it hurts them. MOO>

It is not illegal. The cops went to court on it already, IIRC. That is a well known smuggling corridor. Lots of black tar heroin , and crack moving through there. Thats why people put up with it. They dont want the drugs coming in their neighborhood.

 

[Truthy]

If that's the case, then I don't understand why they want OW dead. I thought they were protesting the senseless and unjustified murder of an innocent <mod snip> in cold blood in broad daylight.... you know, "executed," and "gunned down in the street like a dog." When did it become a protest about traffic tickets? Was all that looting and rioting really about traffic tickets?

You are missing a lot of information about the protesters and painting them ALL in the worst light based on the actions of a few. Much more back round info than I could supply you with here! Perhaps looking into WHY there is a DOJ investigation and other cases (like a few @ OW's former place of employment) would be a good start? It's out there, if understanding is truly what you seek.

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

Could be fingerprints or other evidence. That evidence will go to GJ too, sounds like.

The source claims that there is "solid proof" that there was a struggle between Brown and Wilson for the policeman’s firearm

Edward Magee, spokesman for St. Louis County Prosecutor Robert McCullough, said the office will not disclose the nature of the evidence it will reveal to a grand jury.

"We'll present every piece of evidence we have, witness statements, et cetera, to the grand jury, and we do not release any evidence or talk about evidence on the case."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/2...en-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/

Welcome to WS, and thanks for all your great posts. I am especially enjoying your summaries and all the refreshers on the facts of this case because, frankly, there has been so much other stuff (riots, misquotes, changing witness accounts, rumors, political posturing, etc.) to deal with, it's hard to even remember some of the basic facts. So to have them brought back to the forefront is very helpful, IMO.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2730153/A-kid-broken-home-beat-odds-to-college-A-rapper-sang-smoking-weed-feds-A-violent-robbery-suspect-caught-shocking-video-just-real-Michael-Brown.html

"Michael rapped about fathers who don't pay child support and do jail time. A case was brought against his own father ... for failure to pay child support in 2012" ... Did this involve a warrant that his mother applied for?

"In 2007 Mike Brown Snr plead guilty to a drug possession felony carrying a minimum penalty of 5 years jail time." ... Did this involve a warrant?

​

 

[popsicle]

Ferguson announces changes to municipal court system, addition of police review board


The city of Ferguson plans to make changes designed to reduce court fine revenue, reform court procedures, and start a Citizen Review Board that will help keep an eye on and guide the Ferguson police department, the city council announced today.

They will also partner with Dellwood and St. Louis County to get funding for the West Florissant Great Streets Project.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...tml?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

 

[momrids6]

Every car is searched? You guys need a DOJ investigation- that would be illegal!

Why would anyone want to live like that? It boggles the mind what people will put up with- until it hurts them. MOO>

Only if one is violating the speed limit. Sure, one can deny a search of their vehicle, and then wait for a warrant & a drug dog, or, if one is going fast enough and has a big mouth, an arrest for reckless endangerment and impound of vehicle.... no profiling here; act like an idiot- off to jail
~~~~~

Are the nightly protests on W Florrisant continuing? I did see some community meetings scheduled for the area- I hope there will be some reporting on those, and a lot of participation from concerned citizens.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Thank you, Klood-N! It's not as if MB was profiled. He robbed a store, assaulted the clerk, then ignored a police officer's lawful order to get out of the street, then assaulted the police officer, then fled, then turned and charged the police officer. There was no profiling going on there, and this case isn't about profiling.The activists and instigators are trying to use this case as if it's their own personal candy store to demand everything they've ever wanted.

This case isn't about profiling, and it's not about traffic tickets. It's about a very large powerful man who committed several violent acts in a very short space of time, and who suffered the consequences of his choices.

cbm

Thank you sonjay. :star2:

 

[popsicle]

Wednesday @ 3pm is when they are supposed to shut down the interstate.

 

[bwt42]

For all of you that think the GJ will see the contradictions in what the witnesses have said in their media interviews & disregard them, you could be wrong. Maybe, only written statements will be given. IDK. I doubt all the different statements that each witness made would be presented. IDK. Anyone with experience in this area have any thoughts?

 

[sonjay]

You are missing a lot of information about the protesters and painting them ALL in the worst light based on the actions of a few. Much more back round info than I could supply you with here! Perhaps looking into WHY there is a DOJ investigation

Well, no, actually, I don't think I am missing much information, but thanks for your concern.

One of the earliest reports (Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/us/police-say-mike-brown-was-killed-after-struggle-for-gun.html ) had these snippets:

Mr. Brown’s stepfather, Louis Head, held a cardboard sign that said, “Ferguson police just executed my unarmed son.”

But elected officials and advocacy groups called for a full investigation and questioned the tactics of the police, who acknowledged that Mr. Brown had been unarmed.

Esther Haywood, the president of the N.A.A.C.P. in St. Louis County, said in a statement: “We are hurt to hear that yet another teenaged boy has been slaughtered by law enforcement, especially in light of the recent death of Eric Garner in New York, who was killed for selling cigarettes. We plan to do everything within our power to ensure that the Ferguson Police Department as well as the St. Louis County Police Department releases all details pertinent to the shooting. We strongly encourage residents to stay away from the crime scene so that no additional citizens are injured.”

As Chief Belmar spoke at a televised news conference, chants of “Don’t shoot!” and “We want answers!” could be heard from the protesters who had gathered outside the Ferguson police headquarters.​

It was all about MB, and only about MB. Remember "Hands up! Don't shoot"?

It wasn't until nearly a month after the shooting that the DOJ expanded its investigation to encompass a more general civil rights investigation. Originally it was only to look into the MB shooting.

The looting was about MB. The rioting was about MB. The calls for DW's death were about MB. Now that the "innocent little teen MB" narrative has fallen apart, it's about traffic tickets.

As for me, I'm not willing to discuss traffic tickets while they're calling for OW's death. OW is a real human being who was forced to do what most police officers never do in their entire careers, and he's been all but convicted by Eric <modsnip> Holder.

 

[sonjay]

For all of you that think the GJ will see the contradictions in what the witnesses have said in their media interviews & disregard them, you could be wrong. Maybe, only written statements will be given. IDK. I doubt all the different statements that each witness made would be presented. IDK. Anyone with experience in this area have any thoughts?

I have no experience with a grand jury, but it wouldn't surprise me if the GJ gets to hear/watch all the various interviews -- particularly in light of McCollough's statement that they're going to see everything. IMO, it definitely gives one a better picture of things to see the evolution of the narratives by the various witnesses, as opposed to any one single interview.

But as to the legalities or customary practices in that regard, I have no idea.

 

[sonjay]

Yep. From the beginning, protesters and commentators everywhere have repeatedly used past and current grievances inflicted by people who are not Officer Wilson to justify their lynch-mobbish behavior and demands for Officer Wilson's head.

Doesn't comport with claims to care about civil rights and fairness in the Justice system.

No, it certainly doesn't. Calling for the death penalty for OW, even before the GJ hearing, is the embodiment of anti-civil rights and anti-fairness. And I can't use the words I would prefer to use about the outright death threats.