MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #18

[reedus23]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...2226ca-3a82-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html

 

[Sonya610]

Yes we did, After the police were called by someone else. Shop owners hands were pretty tied up at that point.

Uhhh....a customer that happened to call the police could NOT prosecute as they weren't victims.

The owner was apparently willing to press charges initially.

 

[DebinGA]

Why has Crump been so quiet and why is he talking again, now?

Guessing, the council meeting spectacle + the block the highway gambit had a negative effect on public opinion. Most people were left wondering, "Who'd want to live or work there, especially police officers?" than those thinking, "That's where I want to raise my family and start a business."

 

[bettybaby00]

If the NYT with 16 reporters credited on their definitive DW piece and the WaPo with 9 credited reporters on theirs couldn't find anything at all negative about OW himself, what does Crump think the SL P-D can do?

Seriously that was my first thought. Additionally, I've no doubt they have been looking for dirt as well, and one month later they've still got nothing.

 

[TexanMom]

I suppose seek his personnel file? Ask for any juvenile records, if any? All might have been done but I haven't seen it reported. Oh, and purportedly, ESPN of all places found something that may or may not be negative. Won't believe it's negative until I watch it though and even then with a grain of salt.

Why would a sports channel try to dig up dirt on DW?

 

[popsicle]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...2226ca-3a82-11e4-9c9f-ebb47272e40e_story.html

An opinion piece... from the Washington Post... enough said. jmo

 

[sonjay]

Third grad may be a stretch, but if we want to look into any discipline MB might have received in high school, I think it would only be fair to do the same with DW. Same with juvenile records, etc... After all, DW is the suspect in this case.

Actually, you would be getting into rules of evidence problems there, exactly because DW is the "suspect." (I put that word in quotes, because IMO MB was the suspect.) The state may not go digging into a defendant's background looking for evidence of bad character to present as evidence that the defendant committed this particular act.

However, a defendant may introduce evidence of an alleged victim's pertinent trait, and if the evidence is admitted, the prosecutor can offer evidence to rebut it, or evidence of the defendant's same trait.

This rule applies to both black defendants and white defendants. It doesn't get changed depending on the race of the defendant or the race of the alleged victim.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_404

So, if it should turn out that MB had a history of assaulting people (which we know he did on at least one occasion, at the store, 10 minutes previously), OW could introduce that as evidence of MB's propensity to assault people. The prosecution could then introduce evidence, if any exists, of OW's propensity to assault people. But they can't go introducing, willy-nilly, anything bad that they can dig up on OW, nor could OW introduce anything bad that his lawyers can dig up on MB.

 

[reedus23]

Why would a sports channel try to dig up dirt on DW?

I don't know that they did. They did a feature on the football team and how they've struggled to maintain a team through this whole mess. Rams letting them use Rams Park to practice. Stuff like that. Purportedly (because I haven't seen it yet, was simply told) part of it includes an interview of a player who relates a run in with OW a week or 2 before the shooting. Don't think they went digging and don't even know if the run in was positive or negative myself, though I suspect it wasn't positive.

 

[DebinGA]

I live in New Jersey ...but I'm fairly certain what's done here is replicated all over. the grand jury can meet in secret locations....it was often the case during high profile and organized crime investigations. I'm not talking about the next town or two over...I'm talking like 50-60-70 miles away

I hope they did that early on, because I was watching an early protest livestream, and a black pastor led his group in a final prayer and reminded them to meet up at the justice center the next morning at 9:00 ... which was the first day the gj was to hear MB/DW evidence.

 

[reedus23]

An opinion piece... from the Washington Post... enough said. jmo

Yepp. Just passing it along. I think the opinion is flawed in areas and other areas I can't argue against.

 

[nothingnew]

Well, he may have once pulled a little girl's hair in third grade, or something. You never know.

To be fair: past behavior is a predictor of future behavior.

 

[MyBelle]

They could have put an officer or two inside the store (outside may have attracted too much attention).

It would also have been WISE to protect the store so other witnesses would not be afraid to come forward (but maybe that was the point? a subtle form of witness intimidation?).

The INSIDE of a retail store is private property. If a store wants protection, they can hire it. Years ago, I walked into a T-Mobile Store in Chicago's Logan Square and right next to the display of phones was a Chicago police officer in plain clothes wearing his firearm. I know many police officers moonlight to earn extra money. A win-win for the merchant, the customers and the police officer.

JMO

 

[reedus23]

Actually, you would be getting into rules of evidence problems there, exactly because DW is the "suspect." (I put that word in quotes, because IMO MB was the suspect.) The state may not go digging into a defendant's background looking for evidence of bad character to present as evidence that the defendant committed this particular act.

However, a defendant may introduce evidence of an alleged victim's pertinent trait, and if the evidence is admitted, the prosecutor can offer evidence to rebut it, or evidence of the defendant's same trait.

This rule applies to both black defendants and white defendants. It doesn't get changed depending on the race of the defendant or the race of the alleged victim.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre/rule_404

So, if it should turn out that MB had a history of assaulting people (which we know he did on at least one occasion, at the store, 10 minutes previously), OW could introduce that as evidence of MB's propensity to assault people. The prosecution could then introduce evidence, if any exists, of OW's propensity to assault people. But they can't go introducing, willy-nilly, anything bad that they can dig up on OW, nor could OW introduce anything bad that his lawyers can dig up on MB.

What is admissible and what is gathered in an investigation are 2 different things. I simply haven't heard anything about such questions being asked or information being gathered. As you indicated, there are situations where certain items could be used so it only makes sense that the investigation would include digging that stuff up now in case it's needed later.

ETA - And has been pointed out, what a GJ can consider is broader than what can be presented at trial.

 

[DebinGA]

IIRC DW is divorced with one child, and he's the one who filed first. Divorces often provide useful fodder for those seeking bad character accusations, but I've seen nothing about DW's. I have seen both DW and his ex's first-middle-last names reported, imo to help those looking for dirt.

 

[nothingnew]

And therein lies the problem: no kid will be able to achieve educational success without help from teachers and educational programs designed for them.

There is no excuse for providing children sub-standard schools. Doing so IS an act of racism. That totally is the fault of the State of Missouri and its legislature. A superior educational system and special education programs require money, plenty of money. iow, the State of Missouri needs to raise taxes and give every child a quality education which is their right. Since they can't seem to do their job, I hope the DoJ asks a Court to order it.

How is it racism? There are white communities with crap schools. That is why you get a job, pay taxes and make use of whatever education is available. I've not heard anyone saying they will improve themselves and move someplace better.

 

[sonjay]

What is admissible and what is gathered in an investigation are 2 different things. I simply haven't heard anything about such questions being asked or information being gathered. As you indicated, there are situations where certain items could be used so it only makes sense that the investigation would include digging that stuff up now in case it's needed later.

Oh, sure, absolutely. If OW has a history of shooting unarmed teens who are surrendering with their hands raised, in broad daylight for no reason, I definitely hope they dig that up. And I personally would hope that it would be admitted in court, under some exception to the general rule.

 

[sonjay]

:13-" he just ran up to the car"
:16 "he just ran up to the car and start punchin' on him"

Some of you folks obviously have much better ears than I do. I've listened to that six ways from Sunday and I can't hear what you're saying is there.

Not that it matters, because there's already plenty of evidence for me that there was an assault by MB on OW at the car, then a flight, then the beginning of another assault, which OW stopped by shooting MB.

And yeah, I don't care if his hands were up at some point. There are too many witnesses that say he turned around and began running/charging/walking/stumbling/moving back toward the officer. Even the witnesses that the MB side are holding up as shining examples of proof that OW gunned down MB while he was surrendering, even those witnesses say the MB was moving toward OW.

 

[MyBelle]

An opinion piece... from the Washington Post... enough said. jmo

It's also an extremely biased opinion in that he refuses to acknowledge that Dr. Baden has confirmed the fatal shot was fired while Brown was moving TOWARD the officer. The "hands up in surrender" is an opinion, not a fact confirmed by any forensic evidence that the public has seen.

 

[Linda7NJ]

And therein lies the problem: no kid will be able to achieve educational success without help from teachers and educational programs designed for them.

There is no excuse for providing children sub-standard schools. Doing so IS an act of racism. That totally is the fault of the State of Missouri and its legislature. A superior educational system and special education programs require money, plenty of money. iow, the State of Missouri needs to raise taxes and give every child a quality education which is their right. Since they can't seem to do their job, I hope the DoJ asks a Court to order it.

Bull..IMO money isn't the issue.

Education starts at home, it requires commitment and involvement from parents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[reedus23]

It's also an extremely biased opinion in that he refuses to acknowledge that Dr. Baden has confirmed the fatal shot was fired while Brown was moving TOWARD the officer. The "hands up in surrender" is an opinion, not a fact confirmed by any forensic evidence that the public has seen.

I don't know if that is what the opinion piece was addressing. I think it was geared toward McCulloch and his office's handling of the GJ. Like I said, I think he's wrong on some things and right on others.