MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #18

[Oceans]

Posted in previous thread:

Originally Posted by LambChop
But Officer Wilson did hit MB 4 times in the arm before bullets striking MB in the eye and the top of his head. Anyone think there was a chance that OW might have known MB from the neighborhood? It would be awfully hard to kill someone you knew, even casually. Just my opinion, but the shots to the arm will have to be explained.

This was the quote I wanted to respond originally to.

Originally Posted by LambChop View Post
Just my 2 cents, but could OW have aimed for MB's arm, right chest area to stop him and when he did not stop 2-3 second delay in the shooting OW knew he had to aim for center mass? Unfortunately MB stumbled and fell into the direct line of where his chest area would have been when the last two shots were fired. We know he was moving/leaning forward because he fell forward. jmo

I like "Josie's" version as I believe it comes closest to ODW's possible statement. JMO

by Tony Lee 18 Aug 2014

Last week, "Josie" called into KFTK NewsTalk 97.1 and said Wilson allegedly thought Brown was "on something" and felt Brown's actions were "unbelievable." CNN has since reported that her recollection matches what Wilson told police after the incident. "Josie" told host Dana Loesch that Wilson's "significant other told me" the account Sunday night before the riots occurred and claimed they have not been in contact with anyone since last Tuesday morning.

After saying that she was scared but wanted to get Wilson's version of the events out there, "Josie" claimed that Wilson said Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson "were walking in the middle of the street," refusing to get out of the street after Wilson asked them to do so. She said there "was some cussing involved," and Wilson "pulled up ahead of them, and he was watching them." At that point, the caller claimed Wilson got a call about a "strong-arm" robbery, and he looked in their hands and saw the cigars that Brown allegedly stole from a convenience store, according to surveillance video that was released.

"Josie" claimed when Wilson opened the door to get out of the police car, "Michael slammed his door shut." Brown, according to "Josie," then "bum rushes him, punches him in the face." She said at one point Brown "got the gun totally turned against his hip," and "Darren shoves it away and the gun goes off."

"Josie" claimed Brown and Johnson started running away and, following protocol, Wilson pursued them while they were 35 feet ahead of him and yelled, "Freeze." She said Brown then started taunting Wilson by saying,"Oh, what are you going to do about it? You're not going to shoot me."

"All of a sudden, he just started to bum rush him, he just started coming at him full speed," the caller claimed, "And he just started shooting and he just started coming. He really thinks he was on something."

The caller claimed that Wilson thought "it was unbelievable" and that his "final shot was in the forehead." Brown then allegedly fell about two to three feet in front of Wilson. "Josie" said Brown was not shot in the back, contrary to initial reports.

An eyewitness at the scene has also said that Brown "doubled back" to charge the officer before he was shot and killed. An autopsy that the Brown family commissioned found that Brown was shot six times, and all of the bullets "were fired into his front." Last week, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said that Wilson did not know that Brown was the prime suspect in a robbery when he initially approached them. Jackson said that Wilson thought they could be the suspects after seeing cigars in their hands. That matches what "Josie" said and may indicate why Wilson put his patrol car in reverse so quickly after he allegedly received a call about the robbery and the description of the suspect. Toxicology reports also found marijuana in Brown's system, which means that Brown was "on something," as Wilson allegedly thought.

On Sunday, according to the New York Times, "Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York" flew to Missouri to conduct a private autopsy of Brown. Baden said the bullet wound to his head could be a sign that Brown was hit while rushing the officer, though he said there was not enough evidence to reconstruct the incident.

<modsnip>

 

[Oceans]

Also in the article, &#8220;In high-profile cases, the prosecutors use the grand jury to seek some cover for their failure to act on their own,&#8221; said James Cohen, an associate professor at Fordham University School of Law in New York.

Although the above is true, it's not a statement that should lobbed out there considering the audience it's reaching. IIRC McCulloch has stated that ALL police shootings go before the GJ, yet this statement conveys the message McCulloch is trying to hide behind them. He could very well be doing that, but why add fuel to the fire?

As for the quote you posted, I have to question what he's saying. 1st, wouldn't they be subpoenaed if they weren't willing to testify? And also, whoever is called would already have an official statement on record anyway, so wouldn't the GJ already know what those statements were?

Great questions! I wondered the same.

 

[popsicle]

Ferguson plan for police oversight board is derided as 'insulting'

Antonio French, a St. Louis alderman who has become deeply involved with the demonstrations in Ferguson, described the proposal as "weak &#8212; to the point of being insulting."

"From my experience, if it lacks subpoena power and/or paid staff and investigators, it's not going to be effective," French said by email.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0911-ferguson-review-board-20140912-story.html

 

[Suthrnqt]

What became of the 'double super secret' plans for today?? Seems like things are quiet and peaceful. And for that I am grateful.

 

[popsicle]

What became of the 'double super secret' plans for today?? Seems like things are quiet and peaceful. And for that I am grateful.

It appears to have been so top secret that not even Mustafa knew about it tiko. jmo So no live stream.

 

[bettybaby00]

Ferguson plan for police oversight board is derided as 'insulting'

Antonio French, a St. Louis alderman who has become deeply involved with the demonstrations in Ferguson, described the proposal as "weak &#8212; to the point of being insulting."

"From my experience, if it lacks subpoena power and/or paid staff and investigators, it's not going to be effective," French said by email.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0911-ferguson-review-board-20140912-story.html

After reading his statement, and the comments from "experts," I have to ask what do these people want?

It may not be 100% perfect, but as the NAACP guy said, "it's a step in the right direction."

So IMO, if you want to state this could be better, and here's why, I'm all for it. But to state it's "insulting?"

After the way these people were treated the other night I'd have to say, Mr. French, you're insulting. IMO

 

[katydid23]

What became of the 'double super secret' plans for today?? Seems like things are quiet and peaceful. And for that I am grateful.

I kept checking Argos radio/IAMMIKEBROWN because last night he said he was going to cover the 'surprise' on his livestream. But he never posted anything about it today.

 

[MyBelle]

It's a bit confusing, IMO. I think he is not speaking about MB's juvenile records:

Frank Bowman, a law professor at the University of Missouri, said prosecutors may use grand juries for their power to issue subpoenas. “That’s what is going on here,” he suggested.

McCulloch has told reporters he plans to have his staff present every scrap of evidence about the Brown case to the grand jury. He also pledged to seek a court order to open the evidence if Wilson is not indicted.

Cohen said such a promise may have a chilling effect on witnesses he fears would be “less likely” to testify if they think the information would ultimately go public.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_f0c885c8-0e6b-532f-a6b6-0dc663b85d96.html

Ocean, the juvenile record of Brown is a non-issue. The DA has access to it and the Grand Jury will also have access to it. Plus, they can subpoena witnesses and they have to appear or face contempt charges. It might have a "chilling effect" on witnesses but they still have to appear.

These "witnesses" who went to the media may have to actually testify. If they aren't telling the truth, there will be consequences. None of them appear to be the brightest bulbs in the marquee, if you get my drift of what is, my opinion.

 

[MyBelle]

Ferguson plan for police oversight board is derided as 'insulting'

Antonio French, a St. Louis alderman who has become deeply involved with the demonstrations in Ferguson, described the proposal as "weak &#8212; to the point of being insulting."

"From my experience, if it lacks subpoena power and/or paid staff and investigators, it's not going to be effective," French said by email.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0911-ferguson-review-board-20140912-story.html

It won't be effective in firing police officers, which is the goal. I really think that some are in a time warp because these same tired arguments have been used, reused, retreaded and still useless in other major cities in the Midwest for YEARS. They want amnesty based on race in the enforcement of laws. Ain't gonna happen....Time to move on....

 

[MyBelle]

Then I guess I am a racist because I did ask my Japanese friend to teach me how to use chopstix correctly. And guess what---she did teach me because she grew up using them and knew the best way to get it done. And YES, my Jewish friends have told me where the best fresh bagels are. Why is that racist? And when their grandchildren were coming for the holidays and wanted a Christmas tree, guess who they called when they had some questions about where to get one and what kind to pick? Me, because I have experience with that. How is that racist? gheeezzzzzz

It's not racist which is why this case is so ridiculous. Our family's Thanksgiving celebration closely resembles a United Nations party and we'd have it no other way. Our son-in-law's mother is Puerto Rican, her husband is Jewish and his cousin married a man from Columbia. Our daughter's husband is from Australia and my brother and his Cuban wife adopted a child from Argentina. My great-grandfather was a Judge in Missouri and my nephew is a cop in Atlanta. Welcome to America.

 

[katydid23]

Looking at the landscaper lift his arms, that does not look like the 'surrender' position, imo.

 

[dandy]

Ferguson plan for police oversight board is derided as 'insulting'

Antonio French, a St. Louis alderman who has become deeply involved with the demonstrations in Ferguson, described the proposal as "weak &#8212; to the point of being insulting."

"From my experience, if it lacks subpoena power and/or paid staff and investigators, it's not going to be effective," French said by email.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0911-ferguson-review-board-20140912-story.html

i'd be interested in reading the actual proposal - will start searching for it.

i'm assuming that a crb member must be a ferguson resident in good standing and able to conduct business in a confidential manner.

i'd assume the county would appoint these people? just add quite a bit of $ to ferguson's budget - it doesn't come cheap.

edit - i think i found it (even though link calls it a public safety commission) : http://www.scribd.com/doc/239427005/BILL-NO-7063-Establishing-Public-Safety-Commission

edit edit: no salary - yikes! Members of the commission shall serve without compensation

 

[dandy]

Looking at the landscaper lift his arms, that does not look like the 'surrender' position, imo.

just googled it - it's being defined by army & le as "wrists above the shoulders" but they do not mention anything about a person remaining stationary = which imo is critical in defining "surrender"

 

[Elley Mae]

Just under 75 yards. On your own 25 yard line looking into the end zone. What can you see? What can you hear? Any football players here?

https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...2!3m1!1s0x89c2f861ad5902bf:0x8184280d31051734

Not a football player or E.F. Hutton..... but I do cut grass at exactly 100 yards. If I was to stand and look out at the end of that 100 yard mark I could/would be able to see the interactions of two people and be able to give lots of information as to what I could see but I would not be able to see details like eye color. Now at 100 yards it would be hard to hear what is being said unless they are talking loud or yelling. But I would be able to see the two individuals for sure. This is all under the conditions of no interferences.jmo idk

 

[sonjay]

just googled it - it's being defined by army & le as "wrists above the shoulders" but they do not mention anything about a person remaining stationary = which imo is critical in defining "surrender"

Absolutely. Arms up while advancing toward a police officer that you assaulted just a few seconds previously doesn't sound like surrender.

And furthermore, arms are very mobile parts of the body. Based on the witness accounts, it sounds like MB did a variety of different things with his arms at that critical juncture. Some of which could be interpreted as surrender, aggressiveness, taunting, or reaching for something in his pocket or waistband. (Remember, while it became clear afterward that MB was unarmed, at the time OW didn't know that.) If we combine those various arm movements with an advance toward the officer, it looks less and less like surrender and more and more like a renewed assault.

 

[Frydaddy]

Not a football player or E.F. Hutton..... but I do cut grass at exactly 100 yards. If I was to stand and look out at the end of that 100 yard mark I could/would be able to see the interactions of two people and be able to give lots of information as to what I could see but I would not be able to see details like eye color. Now at 100 yards it would be hard to hear what is being said unless they are talking loud or yelling. But I would be able to see the two individuals for sure. This is all under the conditions of no interferences.jmo idk

Now, to really measure your sight and hearing skills, could you place a building on your land that blocks 80% of your view of something and see if that limits your abilities? Also, could you place two people on the other side of that building, one on a balcony immediately above and one 10-20 feet away, and then explain how it's possible that you can see and hear things those two people didn't, even though they were 10 times closer?

I think two conclusions can be made here. 1) The landscapers cause big problems for witness credibility. 2) These two Steve Austin's should be cutting our grass, they have mad skills we mortals don't have!

 

[TheDuchess]

Looking at the landscaper lift his arms, that does not look like the 'surrender' position, imo.

It seems more to me like a fake out...hey stop shooting so I can come on over and kick your youknowwhat.

 

[sonjay]

Surrendering?

 

[TheDuchess]

Ferguson plan for police oversight board is derided as 'insulting'

Antonio French, a St. Louis alderman who has become deeply involved with the demonstrations in Ferguson, described the proposal as "weak — to the point of being insulting."

"From my experience, if it lacks subpoena power and/or paid staff and investigators, it's not going to be effective," French said by email.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-0911-ferguson-review-board-20140912-story.html

Sounds to me like they want something that already exists...except it's called a grand jury. Members of the community who are paid to review incidents and have subpoena power.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It seems more to me like a fake out...hey stop shooting so I can come on over and kick your youknowwhat.

IMO it doesn't matter what Brown was thinking as he advanced.
He may have actually been shocked and scared witless once he was actually shot. Perhaps he thought I better take my butt back there and give myself up. doesn't matter.
What matters is what was going on in Wilson's head as Brown continued TOWARD him. I'd venture to guess, Wilson was also very scared after being assaulted in his vehicle as forced to fight for control of his own gun. Any police officer would have feared Brown at that point.

All IMO


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