MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #18

[Trident]

Wow, good article, and on cnn.com no less.

I suspect that what's going to happen is, the 9 white and 3 black members of the GJ are going to split along racial lines, and there be no indictment. They need 9 votes for a true bill, and I just can't see that happening, regardless, but it won't surprise me at all if it splits exactly along racial lines. And the rioting and looting will start up again, with the addition of accusations of GJ cover-ups and deliberate mishandling of the GJ case and racism by the GJ itself. Those people in Ferguson are not going to accept the GJ's decision.

Unless many of the whites are bleeding heart liberals who understand that years of ...yada, yada ad nauseum.

 

[TheDuchess]

I've been doing some contemplating over the race issue in this case. While there may be racism in this world, I truly believe the biggest problem isn't race, but rather presentation. I look back at the people who spoke at the Ferguson City Council meeting and how they presented themselves and which ones I actually "listened" to what they had to say. There is only one of these people that I actually specifically remember what they said. I bet you can all guess which one.


To me, first appearances DO matter and to say they don't is wrong. Do I notice the color of someone's skin or ethnicity when I first meet them? Of course I do. It would be one of the things I would mention in a physical description of the person, if asked. But what would my impression of them be? Would it be based on the color of their skin, or on the way they present themselves? To me, what they are wearing, how are they dressed, do they take pride in their appearance or are they unkempt, are they dressed appropriately for the setting they are in? To me, there is only one person from those 4 photos that I would listen to and actually want to hear what they are saying. To express my thoughts further, here is one more set of photos. Which of these men would YOU want to follow, listen to, trust in and believe?




"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[Klood-N]

On SM, there seems to be a renewed focus by the agitators around "where is Darren Wilson", We Want Darren Wilson. I'm concerned. If I were a cartoonist, I'd love to draw a picture of angry mob with torches juxtaposed against the rioters holding Molotov cocktails high and flicking lighters with gas cans. Shahid would be at the front, ready to burn the whole place down (like his friend Tommy Thompson & city hall).

I'm concerned there's a bounty for Darren. So thankful he's in protective custody.

 

[sonjay]

On SM, there seems to be a renewed focus by the agitators around "where is Darren Wilson", We Want Darren Wilson. I'm concerned. If I were a cartoonist, I'd love to draw a picture of angry mob with torches juxtaposed against the rioters holding Molotov cocktails high and flicking lighters with gas cans. Shahid would be at the front, ready to burn the whole place down (like his friend Tommy Thompson & city hall).

I'm concerned there's a bounty for Darren. So thankful he's in protective custody.

Actually, I'm not sure he is. He's in an undisclosed location, but I don't recall any announcement that he's in protective custody. MB's little friend DJ is the one who is in protective custody.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please?

 

[Klood-N]

Actually, I'm not sure he is. He's in an undisclosed location, but I don't recall any announcement that he's in protective custody. MB's little friend DJ is the one who is in protective custody.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please?

I'm pretty sure I've read both are.

Eta: Darren Wilson text messaged a close friend to say that he can't leave protective custody because he would be immediately recognized
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...reaks-silence-texts-friend.html#ixzz3D77pTFXP

 

[reedus23]

@antoniofrench
The current policy gives police virtually complete discretion over use of deadly force and whether they "reasonably feared for their life".
6:59am - 12 Sep 14
https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/status/510397163201757184

He states it. I hope he and his followers began to comprehend it.

I would have no problem with a citizen review board that maybe works in concert with internal affairs or whatever department is charged with investigating allegations of excessive force/abuse of authority. Whether it is well founded or not, the perception is that when an officer does wrong, others will circle the wagons to protect that officer from outsiders, even if they too believe he did wrong. That perception may be completely unfounded and I don't intend to start a debate over whether there is merit to it or not, but I think there is certainly a segment of society that views it this way. To me, those are concerns over transparency and accountability and a citizen review board that possibly works in concert with an internal affairs investigation could address those issues. My personal belief is that in a majority of the cases, you get the same result or outcome but it will place more confidence in those reviews.

I know some question for the need as that is the purpose of a grand jury, and while that is true with regard to whether or not to refer a case for criminal charges, I think the scope of such a review can be/should be broader than simply determining if criminal charges are warranted. Other issues, such as should any internal action be taken (fire? suspend w/pay? suspend w/o pay? reprimand? no action at all?) can also be addressed. As to this specific case...such a review board would obviously play little or no role in determining if criminal charges should be brought but not every case is referred to the prosecuting attorney's office so quickly.

 

[sonjay]

I'm pretty sure I've read both are.

Do you, or does anyone, have a link to OW being in protective custody? Because if he is, I've managed to miss that somehow.

 

[reedus23]

@antoniofrench
@Bizzabobby As far as we know. And in both cases, the victims were given toxicology tests but the officers were not.
https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/status/510403663341568000

Almost 100% sure he's got this wrong. That's usually standard, iirc and with Darren treated at hospital, I bet they did screen him. This sort of disinformation from the rioters' leaders only fuels the fire. Maybe purposefully.

Agree with you on this point. My understanding is that it is one of the first things done immediately.

 

[TheDuchess]

Shahid is back.

@anthonyshahid1
@SenatorNasheed
As-Salaam Alaikum, let's keep the momentum going. We cannot rest on this one. No justice, no peace.
https://twitter.com/anthonyshahid1/status/510419786535145472

@anthonyshahid1
Will the real racist stand up? Arrest Darren Wilson now! pic.twitter.com/CRnTCLXctL
https://twitter.com/anthonyshahid1/status/510425455883603968

BBM-Hmmm...he says As-Salaam Alaikum, meaning Peace to You or Peach be with you" which in Arabic, a phrase often used by the Nation of Islam. And then says "no justice/no peace." Make up your freaking mind already!!!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/as-salaam alaikum
http://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/mmt/mxp/notes/5140.html

 

[K_Z]

@antoniofrench
@Bizzabobby As far as we know. And in both cases, the victims were given toxicology tests but the officers were not.
https://twitter.com/AntonioFrench/status/510403663341568000

Almost 100% sure he's got this wrong. That's usually standard, iirc and with Darren treated at hospital, I bet they did screen him. This sort of disinformation from the rioters' leaders only fuels the fire. Maybe purposefully.

Can't find St.Louis policy and procedure online quickly, but all major cities have remarkably similar policies for investigating officer involved shootings. Here is a Denver policy-- it is quite thorough. This is a paragraph about securing the officer's weapon, and toxicology testing of the officer. It's a very interesting read-- I recommend the whole document.

Officers are trained to properly secure their firearm after
an officer-involved shooting. The protocol provides for the
firearm to be taken from the officer by crime lab personnel
for appropriate testing. The officer is provided a
replacement weapon to use pending the completion of the
testing. The protocol also allows for any officer to
voluntarily submit to intoxicant testing if they chose. The
most common circumstance under which an officer might
elect to do so would be in a shooting while working at an
establishment that serves alcohol beverages. Compelled
intoxicant testing can be conducted if there are indications of
possible intoxication and legal standards are met.

BBM.

http://www.denverda.org/News_Release/Decision_Letters/PS-2011 Protocol.pdf

Completely agree that OW would have had the opportunity at the ER to have tox testing done, either by his own request (advised by union attorney), or as a result of a compulsory measure in the investigative P & P. Officers are trained about the IAD procedures if they are involved in a shooting-- OW would have known about these procedures, and also about the need to protect himself by requesting a tox screen if one wasn't offered or mandatory. IMO. There is no down side to requesting tox testing if you are sure you are "clean".

 

[Klood-N]

BBM-Hmmm...he says As-Salaam Alaikum, meaning Peace to You or Peach be with you" which in Arabic, a phrase often used by the Nation of Islam. And then says "no justice/no peace." Make up your freaking mind already!!!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/as-salaam alaikum
http://ccnmtl.columbia.edu/projects/mmt/mxp/notes/5140.html

Given everything else he's said and that Nasheed is another Muslim agitator in this, I'm pretty sure he means peace to his kind. Oh I should add American black Muslim. He said he doesn't like the foreign hypocrite ones.

IMO at this point if you're involved with these protests, you are supporting those racist ideas.

 

[TheDuchess]

Do you, or does anyone, have a link to OW being in protective custody? Because if he is, I've managed to miss that somehow.

Oh man...I remember a while back someone here e-mailed the reporter from the WaPo that did the puff piece on DJ and she asked if DJ or OW was in protective custody and the reporter answered back that they were both in protective custody. If I am not mistaken, it was federal protective custody.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9b47ba-2ee2-11e4-9b98-848790384093_story.html

 

[DebinGA]

Predictably he's wrong on this. Hope someone calls him on it.

Jackson said blood samples have been taken from Brown and the officer who shot him, with those toxicology tests generally expected to take weeks to complete.
http://www.npr.org/2014/08/11/33948...r-vigil-for-mo-teen-shot-and-killed-by-police

I wonder if anyone oversees aldermen? He should be censured for the reckless way he's behaved.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_9b783cc8-6fb8-55d4-8587-f3f63e83e2c4.html

Reckless works for French.

 

[K_Z]

Do you, or does anyone, have a link to OW being in protective custody? Because if he is, I've managed to miss that somehow.

There was an article linked, IIRC, in last thread that states both DJ and OW are in protective custody. (But obviously not together, lol!) I'll see if I can find the article.

Oops-- The Duchess is right! It was a tweet, confirming that.

 

[sonjay]

I would have no problem with a citizen review board that maybe works in concert with internal affairs or whatever department is charged with investigating allegations of excessive force/abuse of authority. Whether it is well founded or not, the perception is that when an officer does wrong, others will circle the wagons to protect that officer from outsiders, even if they too believe he did wrong. That perception may be completely unfounded and I don't intend to start a debate over whether there is merit to it or not, but I think there is certainly a segment of society that views it this way. To me, those are concerns over transparency and accountability and a citizen review board that possibly works in concert with an internal affairs investigation could address those issues. My personal belief is that in a majority of the cases, you get the same result or outcome but it will place more confidence in those reviews.

I know some question for the need as that is the purpose of a grand jury, and while that is true with regard to whether or not to refer a case for criminal charges, I think the scope of such a review can be/should be broader than simply determining if criminal charges are warranted. Other issues, such as should any internal action be taken (fire? suspend w/pay? suspend w/o pay? reprimand? no action at all?) can also be addressed. As to this specific case...such a review board would obviously play little or no role in determining if criminal charges should be brought but not every case is referred to the prosecuting attorney's office so quickly.

There's always the question of who will watch the watchers. I do believe there are many cops who get away with outright crimes and horrid treatment of citizens. I always scoff when a PD conducts an investigation of itself and concludes there was no wrongdoing. I have no faith in that process whatsoever.

One of the arguments against a CRB is that non-LE citizens don't understand the specific legal duties, rights, training, and obligations of LE. There's some validity to that argument as well.

I wish I had a magical solution. I don't.

 

[sonjay]

Oh man...I remember a while back someone here e-mailed the reporter from the WaPo that did the puff piece on DJ and she asked if DJ or OW was in protective custody and the reporter answered back that they were both in protective custody. If I am not mistaken, it was federal protective custody.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...9b47ba-2ee2-11e4-9b98-848790384093_story.html

Thank you! I did somehow miss that. "Ferguson police said Wilson, 28, is in their protective custody." So DJ is in federal protective custody, and OW is in Ferguson PD protective custody.

Tells you something about the very real danger of violence from people who don't like how things are going.

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Ray Downs
​

Riverfront Times ‏@RiverfrontTimes 43m
Has the #Ferguson mayor met w/ #MichaelBrown's family? Depends on who you talk to. http://goo.gl/SdnIkj #STL
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxVuRCSCIAAqRRu.jpg





​

 

[zenreaper]

"The fact that the c-store was looted right AFTER the police released the store's location says a lot. Anyone that was paying any attention would KNOW the store would be looted! The owner is darn lucky he didn't get killed.They just burned down the QT a few nights earlier, yet the authorities did NOT provide police protection to that store owner after releasing the location AND the video?

I am still amazed that they did that. "

If the person's in question were of Italian lineage, one would call it the mafia and call in ATF, FBI, OC, etc. Why is this method treated like it is the enforcers fault?

 

[TheDuchess]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/crime-law/missouri-law-could-protect-ferguson-officer-darren/ng7tq/

This is a few weeks old, but this was a nicely done piece showing demonstrating a reasoned and researched commentary on the obstacles in arresting and prosecuting OW in this case.

 

[Sonya610]

BBM-Hmmm...he says As-Salaam Alaikum, meaning Peace to You or Peach be with you" which in Arabic, a phrase often used by the Nation of Islam. And then says "no justice/no peace." Make up your freaking mind already!!!

It is a common greeting among many Muslims, not just NOI. FYI Nation of Islam followers are NOT recognized as Muslim by the rest of the Islamic world.