MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #19

[Frydaddy]

wow !!!

#1 have you ever lived in StL County? I have! Absolutely if a County officer saw you walking in the middle of the street (or biking/rollerblading/skate boarding), he/she would ask why & please use the sidewalk, if available or move it to the side of the road; especially if there was an ambulance on its way. Many bikers have been getting hit/killed this summer

#2 LE looking like they're equipped for WW3 - I believe the Fed Gov't is re-thinking giving communities surplus military support/vehicles; however, I believe LE should be able to protect themselves & sometimes an armored vehicle is essential (see University City MO)

#3 I don't think there's much "blind support" for either ODW or MB; it's well thought out & influenced by one's own values & beliefs

#4 One thing I can say about Rev Al is he's been calling for peaceful protesting & has not promoted looting/rioting

#5 Social media is here to stay & drives much of the "racism" poisoning this World; I agree & question if we're advancing as a society or realize we're the most endangered species on this Planet

I would have to add to "The racism, some overt and some subtle, expressed by supporters of OW." to extend to MB supporters & some witnesses, too; unless racism only goes one way which I do not subscribe

BBM - Glad you pointed that out...I think accusing others of racism is as damaging to our society as the actual racism itself. Sure seems like using the race card is more prevalent than examples of actual racism to me.

 

[Linda7NJ]

If my friends that are cops can call them toys, why can't I? I think both I and them understand they are not literally toys to give a 5 year old for Christmas.

Just like our military ...I want them to have the very best so they can protect themselves and protect law abiding citizens.

I would venture to guess your cop friends haven't yet had to respond to a riot or a mass shooting. IMO


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[reedus23]

Regarding #1....you moved, so why would he have to ask you to? In the other situations, were any of the officers clearing for an ambulance? I'm not sure why it is difficult to understand that OW knew an ambulance was going to be moving through there shortly. I have seen LEOs clear roadways for emergency vehicles hundreds of times. It's not unusual.

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My apologies. I missed OW's statement to that effect.

 

[krimekat]

During the last council meeting, several people complained that there were not enough black owned businesses in Ferguson. I don't know why they were asking the city council about that. It is not up to them/

IT is up to the black business owners. If you finally saved up enough and borrowed enough, to get your business started, would YOU want to put that new store in a strip mall in Ferguson? Probably most black biz owners try and make it in other safer areas. They know what the customer base is like already.

pfft - there's a lack of black business owners everywhere, not just in Ferguson MO! Even with the subsidies that minority business owners receive, especially in certain areas, you just don't see black business owners setting up shop in many areas -- even in their own communities. The dude who owns Ferguson Mkt is from India, I believe

Now I personally know a few high enterprising black business owners though they aren't selling cr@p in Ferguson . . .

 

[Linda7NJ]

JMO how is it that you KNOW that OW KNEW that an ambulance would be taking Canfield en route to the hospital? And if he did KNOW that, why would he return to the street blockers and angle his SUV thus blocking them, but also blocking the ambulance route that he was so concerned about? Do you not see even a smidgeon of aggression in that move? There were several driveways and parking lots right there, where he could have parked the SUV and exited to ticket, arrest, question the miscreants, whatever he planned to do. The SUV maneuver looks angry and aggressive, to me. JUST MY OPINION

IMO the reversing SUV shows Wilson did hear the call and at that point was responding to ...strong armed robbery suspects....looks to me as if he were responding to investigate possible suspects of a crime.


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[krimekat]

IMO the reversing SUV shows Wilson did hear the call and at that point was responding to ...strong armed robbery suspects....looks to me as if he were responding to investigate a crime.


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they fit the description to a T IMHO

busy day in Ferguson on that beautiful Aug Saturday

 

[reedus23]

For sure they have a metal detector where they will be meeting, right?

Please tell me yes!

I would imagine. Didn't they even have them at the Ferguson council meeting?

 

[krimekat]

I'd say after the Cookie incident in Kirkwood's City Council mtg & the husband shooting his wife in Clayton's court room, communities which could afford metal detectors in the StL metro have them to protect their citizens . . . those that couldn't afford it probably sought out a grant to pay for them IMHO

 

[reedus23]

Just like our military ...I want them to have the very best so they can protect themselves and protect law abiding citizens.

I would venture to guess your cop friends haven't yet had to respond to a riot or a mass shooting. IMO


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Other than the rioting in Ferguson, you'd probably be correct. I'm not aware of any other rioting they've dealt with nor any mass shootings.

 

[katydid23]

Are the names of the grand jury members even made public? I thought it was different than a regular jury in that regard... At any rate, to say/imply that they should be afraid for their lives is a bit of an exaggeration, IMO.

I would not call it an exaggeration. THey would absolutely get death threats if their names were leaked somehow. jmo

 

[reedus23]

IMO the reversing SUV shows Wilson did hear the call and at that point was responding to ...strong armed robbery suspects....looks to me as if he were responding to investigate a crime.


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Other than the fact that no one matching the description were found by FPD as of 7:00 that night.

 

[Frydaddy]

How dare a cop request a citizen move off the busy road for the safety of the citizen and for the cars having to drive around them...?

LOL - It is getting somewhat silly, the number of things that are portrayed as no big deal. I recall that some speculated that Big Mike had a tab going at the FM&L for his Swishers in an attempt to minimize the strong arm robbery.

Strong arm robbery...no big deal
Hands on store owner...no big deal
Walking down the middle of the street with a cop approaching...no big deal
Blowing off a cop's directions...no big deal
Tussle...no big deal
Cop's facial injuries...no big deal
Possible gang ties...no big deal
Drug use...no big deal
Possible juvenile criminal record...no big deal
No shots in back...no big deal
Witness inconsistency...no big deal
False narrative to start with...no big deal

Dunno, seems like awfully low standards for one side, other side needs notarized copies of Grand Jury evidence to have an opinion.

 

[krimekat]

Other than the fact that no one matching the description were found by FPD as of 7:00 that night.

well, except DJ & MB

 

[Linda7NJ]

Other than the fact that no one matching the description were found by FPD as of 7:00 that night.

I don't understand...


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[hambirg]

JMO how is it that you KNOW that OW KNEW that an ambulance would be taking Canfield en route to the hospital? And if he did KNOW that, why would he return to the street blockers and angle his SUV thus blocking them, but also blocking the ambulance route that he was so concerned about? Do you not see even a smidgeon of aggression in that move? There were several driveways and parking lots right there, where he could have parked the SUV and exited to ticket, arrest, question the miscreants, whatever he planned to do. The SUV maneuver looks angry and aggressive, to me. JUST MY OPINION

How do I know? Because he was the responding officer to that call and I used to drive ambulance back in the day. I know how it works. Part of the duty of the LEO is to direct traffic, etc if need be. That's why I said I've seen it hundreds of times and don't find it odd at all. The ambulance did come that way...did it not?

Why did OW back up the way he did? My best guess is that he realized MB and DJ were the suspects from the armed robbery BOLO.

I really don't see how you can pick up on all those emotions from the way a car is parked. I think you're projecting. The way he blocked MB and DJ in is pretty standard. With two suspects it would have been foolish for him to park in a parking spot or driveway where he might be trapped in. One LEO, two suspects...not going to happen.

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[Dana]

I would not call it an exaggeration. THey would absolutely get death threats if their names were leaked somehow. jmo

At the city council meeting some days ago, didn't some of the Fergusonites threaten the councilmen? Hmm, I'm going to go look that up in the media thread again...

 

[krimekat]

At the city council meeting some days ago, didn't some of the Fergusonites threaten the councilmen? Hmm, I'm going to go look that up in the media thread again...

I know! Any public servant in this case is subject to possible harassment due to the ability to find people via the WWW

Scary times IMHO (hiding in my hovel)

 

[reedus23]

LOL - It is getting somewhat silly, the number of things that are portrayed as no big deal. I recall that some speculated that Big Mike had a tab going at the FM&L for his Swishers in an attempt to minimize the strong arm robbery. Those people are idiots.

Strong arm robbery...no big deal It's relevant. I don't know that it's so relevant that I'd constantly be shouting it from the mountain tops.
Hands on store owner...no big deal It's relevant, though it's redundant of above.
Walking down the middle of the street with a cop approaching...no big dealNo big deal at all.
Blowing off a cop's directions...no big dealA deal, but not a big deal.
Tussle...no big dealIt's relevant.
Cop's facial injuries...no big dealWhatever they are, it's relevant.
Possible gang ties...no big dealNot sure it's relevant even if true. Courts are split on it. On the one side, they want to avoid guilt by association. On the other, I think such evidence has been used to identify a defendant(perp wore green, defendant's gang wore green) or to impeach if a defendant claims he never was in a gang.
Drug use...no big dealTo the issues in this case? If it came back with PCP or Bath Salts, I'd find it very relevant.
Possible juvenile criminal record...no big deal At this point, irrelevant because he has nothing that constitutes the more serious offenses. Beyond that, depends on what it is. Someone earlier made a point of Assaulting an Officer being a class C felony. I would find that relevant.
No shots in back...no big dealIt's relevant in so far as if there were, this case would probably be over already. It's not determinative of justification though.
Witness inconsistency...no big deal Could be an issue. What I find ironic is that I have seen both sides of this argued in support of OW though. The witness statements are inconsistent and therefore can't be believed and the witness statements are too consistent meaning their stories are contrived.
False narrative to start with...no big dealI don't even know what this means as far as relating to whether there was justification or not.

Dunno, seems like awfully low standards for one side, other side needs notarized copies of Grand Jury evidence to have an opinion.

My thoughts in red.

 

[reedus23]

well, except DJ & MB

According to FPD, that wasn't put together until later that night or the next day. At least until FPD comes out and explains there own records.

 

[reedus23]

I don't understand...


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We've been down this road before. The police reports for the robbery includes a an entry at around 7:00 that night indicating that no one matching the description of the robbery suspects had been found as of that time. Many gave reasons for such an entry. Some of those may or may not be accurate but I'd have to hear that from FPD before I believe that their own words don't say what they say. I haven't seen any explanation given that would make me go, oh, yeah, I misread that or oh, yeah, I see where they simply had the wrong time in there.