MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #2

[Kimster]

Derogatory Name Changes to Case Players/General Name Calling

In an effort to keep case discussion constructive, name calling, general bashing and using derogatory name variations for any of the case players is not tolerated. Regardless of how we may feel about many of the people that are the focus of our discussion here,it is always best to elevate the conversation and avoid this type of posting behavior. Feel free to express your displeasure with individuals that are being discussed, just avoid petty nastiness,name calling, name changes and over the top rude posts directed at case players.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

 

[katydid23]

Only because I'm not quite certain DJ was coerced into this. Why was he not arrested?

I do agree with if this is a bad shoot the officer should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. It appears to me, he might just get arrested..

No other witness accounts come close to what the lady friend of the officer has stated. By her account with the last shot to the forehead, sure appears to be over kill...

Release the ME report, release the amount of bullets this officer fired into someone who 3 say was in surrender position, hands raised, getting to his knees.

BBM

DJ was not arrested because he did not steal anything. On the video you can see him laying his cigars back down on the counter before leaving the store.

You keep focusing on the last few shots. What about the FIRST shots? If there was a struggle over the gun and the first shot was inside the car, then that changes the whole scenario. jmo

 

[SStarr33]

Just saw the news they were looting and acting like fools again. Unreal!

Gonna catch up on the what happened now.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

How about "be truthful about the deceased so you can most accurately decide what the likely behaviors of the deceased were before the altercation"? If we think either one of these young men were choirboys, it would seem unlikely either would have assaulted those accused of murdering them in cold blood. When you take their true behavior into account, then you being to realize it may be exactly as being explained by the victim who is forced to shoot to save their own life. It's not about trashing - it's about being able to put all the witness statements in context and come out with the truth. When you don't have videotape of an incident and you have to decide whether to believe the survivor of the incident, it's helpful to know the backgrounds of both the deceased and the survivor. In this case, it's certainly appearing that the cop was 100% truthful in what he experienced. In my opinion.

and yet the witnesses are not truthful in what they witnessed....SMH

They should release the ME's report, the ballistics , especially with a final shot to the forehead.

Don't know about anyone else, that is murder, even for one who wears a is badge and professes to up hold the law. Pumping at least 8 shots into Mike Brown ( his mother alleges this is what she was told) was entitled to due process..

You all can gang up on me for my opinions since I appear to be the minority in believing this officer did not have to murder Mike Brown after the first couple of shots to his chest.

Once he took that final shot to the forehead, he might just be arrested for murder.

 

[Frydaddy]

All too familiar, like a play out of Zimmerman play book..

Trash the victim to justify the murder...

So, no "stood over him"?

I only trash misinformation...good to see how you feel come out though!

Brown didn't rob or steal...yet he did.

Johnson said they didn't steal anything...yet they did.

Brown was portrayed as a good student...yet people depicted him as needing motivation to finish HS.

He was portrayed as a gentle giant...yet he strong armed a smaller man in a robbery.

I didn't create these false narratives, just pointing out inaccuracies to find the truth, wherever it leads.

 

[Frydaddy]

and yet the witnesses are not truthful in what they witnessed....SMH

They should release the ME's report, the ballistics , especially with a final shot to the forehead.

Don't know about anyone else, that is murder, even for one who wears a is badge and professes to up hold the law. Pumping at least 8 shots into Mike Brown ( his mother alleges this is what she was told) was entitled to due process..

You all can gang up on me for my opinions since I appear to be the minority in believing this officer did not have to murder Mike Brown after the first couple of shots to his chest.

Once he took that final shot to the forehead, he might just be arrested for murder.

No one is ganging up on you. It may feel like it when you pass along information that is inaccurate, people interested in the truth have a tendency to call people out on that. Is it safe to assume there is no third witness who didn't know Mike, or did you mean three witnesses, two of whom appear to not to have known Mike?

 

[katydid23]

Evan Pérez ‏@evanperez · 7m ·

 DoJ opposed #Ferguson cops releasing robbery video, citing concern of inflaming tensions, law enf ofcl says; cops did it anyway

https://twitter.com/

Why shouldn't they have released the robbery video? I thought the public wanted all the facts?

 

[cady]

JMO We really need some legal input here. Calling all Lawyers!!!! Help! As I see it, the issue is whether or not the shooting and subsequent death of Brown was justifiable homicide or murder. Wilson has not been charged so we can only speculate about what charges, if any, should be leveled. The investigation is out of the hands of the Ferguson PD. DOJ is investigating. FPD has repeatedly tried to muddy the waters. JMO *edited to delete an adjective !

 

[liz b.]

"Revenge" is at the heart of punishment, in my opinion. Actually that's not my idea, it was the idea of a child development professor I had. Spanking, grounding, taking away toys, etc., are all "revenge" based rather than prevention based. So instead of punishing by grounding a child who is 15 minutes late for curfew, you allow the child the freedom to call and say oh sorry I'm going to be 15 minutes late don't worry about me.

Personally, I never punished at all, which is kind of weird.

Rather than "punishing" most kids will respond to the application of consequences for their actions. Firm and clear rules about acceptable behavior is a fair method. This can begin when the child is quite young. It helps the child to understand what is expected of them in social situations, and also helps them to feel "safe" when they know that a responsible adult(s) are there for them, and setting boundaries for them.. Not spanking, but that's jmo. And it is not ever about "punishing" it is about helping the child to develop and grow. Society will later hold them accountable for their actions. jmo moo Loosing priveledges, such as tv time,or their phones etc, when they go outside the agreed rules helps the child to grow,emotionally and socially. Actions have consequences. jmo moo

 

[cady]

Why shouldn't they have released the robbery video? I thought the public wanted all the facts?

Because they were separate incidents and release of the video would cloud the issue of the shooting and cause unrest...........which is exactly what the release accomplished. JMO

 

[Leilei]

All too familiar, like a play out of Zimmerman play book..

Trash the victim to justify the murder...

At this point, we have so much conflicting information, just like in the case you mentioned. We have the media claiming different things, we have the Police Chief refusing to answer questions during his presser, we have eye witnesses, one of whom could be considered sketchy, and so much more supposition and speculation on both sides, but no actual proof of anything except that a young man was shot and killed. As of right now, even with alleged robbery, he is a victim. Until forensics, autopsy results, medical reports of the officer's wounds come out, it's all a hot mess of he said/she said/they said. I'm not excusing the alleged robbery, but have issue with blaming the victim, and I've seen it right here in this forum. Fact is, we all have our opinions, and that's how it should be, but we're not supposed to go victim-blaming here. JMO, and I hope that it dies down. We need to wait for official facts, not rumor or hearsay or the media's spin, which is going every which way.

 

[Gardenlady]

Because they were separate incidents and release of the video would cloud the issue of the shooting and cause unrest...........which is exactly what the release accomplished. JMO

Exactly. There are no perfect victims. Whether one is a saintly nun or a criminal - both can be victims of crime. Releasing the video of an earlier incident distracts from the issue and incident at hand - which is whether an unarmed man should be gunned down by a cop.


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[Ladylub]

Because they were separate incidents and release of the video would cloud the issue of the shooting and cause unrest...........which is exactly what the release accomplished. JMO

While it may be 2 separate incidents they are linked together. It shows Brown's state of mind. He just robbed a store and walked out and down the block like he owned it and then a cop comes up to him. I doubt he was rainbows and sunshine with the officer.

 

[Gardenlady]

While it may be 2 separate incidents they are linked together. It shows Brown's state of mind. He just robbed a store and walked out and down the block like he owned it and then a cop comes up to him. I doubt he was rainbows and sunshine with the officer.

Picking on a little, unarmed guy to steal cigars is a completely different mindset and behavior than getting rough with a cop who he and everyone else knows darn well is armed and may very well be trigger happy when dealing with a black man. I dont think the earlier incident is close enough in circumstance to draw the conclusion that because he behaved one way with the shopkeeper that he would do the same with a cop.

As for rainbows and sunshine, there's no law anywhere that says citizens of this country must bow and scrape before LE or be shot in punishment for disrespect.


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[cady]

While it may be 2 separate incidents they are linked together. It shows Brown's state of mind. He just robbed a store and walked out and down the block like he owned it and then a cop comes up to him. I doubt he was rainbows and sunshine with the officer.

I agree that they are linked as to Brown's state of mind, but not as to Wilson's IMO. Brown is dead.

 

[Ladylub]

Picking on a little, unarmed guy to steal cigars is a completely different mindset and behavior than getting rough with a cop who he and everyone else knows darn well is armed and may very well be trigger happy when dealing with a black man. I dont think the earlier incident is close enough in circumstance to draw the conclusion that because he behaved one way with the shopkeeper that he would do the same with a cop.

As for rainbows and sunshine, there's no law anywhere that says citizens of this country must bow and scrape before LE or be shot in punishment for disrespect.


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I did not say he deserved to be shot. I keep seeing this being thrown at those of us who are still reviewing the case as a whole and looking at both sides. Witness accounts say he got into it with the officer while the officer was still in the car so he was more then disrespecting an officer.

 

[Trident]

no, I'm not being sarcastic. I know few people want to acknowledge that parents sometimes really want revenge on their kids (and justifiably so, IMHO, man you can get grey hairs from your beloved kidlets).

I really didn't want to derail this whole thread into a parenting philosophy discussion, but rather, to relate it to the cops encouraging leadership within the community and not just taking revenge on the angry mob in the form of tear gas, flash bombs and arrests. There are better ways to change behavior than that, IMHO, although it takes a little longer to take hold.

I don't believe anyone wants "revenge". If your kids were trashing your neighbor's living room, would you stop them, give them a swat, or a time out? Or, would you allow them to run their course, however long that may take?

I want no revenge, although I believe the protestors want revenge because a black boy was shot by a white policeman, that's why the panther thingees are there, along with the Revenants Jackson and Sharpton. Revenge and nothing more.

In my opinion, one needs to STOP the carnage, stop it now, show the criminals that there are "consequences" for their destructive, thieving actions. If there are no consequences, there will be no change, in fact, a well-known one, the bad behavior will continue, be reinforced because they got away with it. We see it all the time in these riots.

Ever read Lord of the Flies? Very interesting read.

My opinion only

 

[Suthrnqt]

Deleting this post. Carry on.

 

[katydid23]

Because they were separate incidents and release of the video would cloud the issue of the shooting and cause unrest...........which is exactly what the release accomplished. JMO

They are not separate incidents. They happened 10 minutes apart and the robbery probably instigated the violent behavior on MB's part when the cop rolled up on him. It is totally relevant because MB would not be worried about jaywalking but would be worried about an arrest for robbery.

As for the unrest, that was happening anyway. And will continue anyway because outsiders came in to exploit the situation.

 

[Hatfield]

I did not say he deserved to be shot. I keep seeing this being thrown at those of us who are still reviewing the case as a whole and looking at both sides. Witness accounts say he got into it with the officer while the officer was still in the car so he was more then disrespecting an officer.

The alleged "incident" or "scrapple" is what will be important to determine what happened. Ive seen so many different things, I dont think anyone can say for sure what happened near the car. Ive even seen one scenerio that says the officer opened his door really fast as if to purposely slam into both the walking people. This could have started the scrapple if there even was one.

But regardless of that, I still think it comes down to what happened even after that.
Questions like:
-Was the guy trying to surrender and was just blasted by the officer because the officer lost his temper
from the previous lack of respect the guy demonstrated and/or the previous struggle incident?
-Was the guy raising his hands to surrender?
-Was the guy many feet away?
-Was the guy kneeling or standing?
-Did the guy have his back to the officer?
-Was he totally unarmed with no weapons in his hands?

All these things are important to understand if the shooting was justified or not and it will likely take sworn witness testimony to be able to decide.

The problem with getting witnesses to give sworn statements is a lot of people dont trust LE. Also, they fear their own peers in the community that if they cooperate then there may be backlash against them.
And frankly, I dont blame them for being afraid because those fears are valid fears.

So lets hope any witnesses are brave enough to provide sworn statements if they truly saw what happened.