MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #20

[Oceans]

Great example! And therein lies the dilemma to work to improve race relations and socioeconomic relations.

Should we "zone" poverty (a euphemism for crime and undesirable behaviors) into ghettos like Canfield Green, to keep the undesirable elements away from law abiding, tax paying members? Or, do we integrate poverty into blended areas with subsidized housing? That very debate is raging where I live, as multiple attempts to put "low income and affordable" multifamily rental units near relatively high property value single family home neighborhoods. You can imagine the howls of NIMBY from property owners!

I don't honestly think most people care what income level a neighbor has-- it's the crime, disrespectful, and undesirable behavior they don't want.

In our area, a factory attracted a large number of immigrant workers to the area. Lots of people worried about crime moving in with the immigrants. The immigrant group moved families with kids, and has become a true value to the community, because their own values and behaviors were compatible. They are honest, law abiding, quiet, church going, and very engaged and hands-on parents.

It's an issue of attitude and behavior, and personal responsibility, not income or race, IMO. Diversity is not about law abiding citizens being forced to tolerate crime, disrespect, and disruptive behavior, and then called "racist" when they object to the behavior. That is not what diversity is all about. It's not about being forced to "hug a ", to borrow that phrase from one of my fellow posters. That's not tolerance, either.

BBM: I think that sums it all up! Great post!

 

[BirdycatNY]

Does anyone have any thoughts about why MB's shorts seemed higher in robbery video than in the picture of him laying deceased in street? Someone may have covered this but I didn't see it, and I don't wear shorts/pants like that so do not know the logistics of movement...TIA

 

[bettybaby00]

Kind of like the strong arm robbery video and how ppl can prove he paid for the cigs... watch this video it is proof and it is the exact same video. :lol:

How exactly do they spin...

:facepalm:

 

[bettybaby00]

Does anyone have any thoughts about why MB's shorts seemed higher in robbery video than in the picture of him laying deceased in street? Someone may have covered this but I didn't see it, and I don't wear shorts/pants like that so do not know the logistics of movement...TIA

Who knows, maybe he initially thought he was going to stuff his stolen merchandise down his pants. Kinda difficult when said pants are hanging too low.

Also, the act of running would lend itself to a "wardrobe malfunction" when your pants are already half falling off. *shrugs*

 

[sonjay]

Also, the act of running would lend itself to a "wardrobe malfunction" when your pants are already half falling off. *shrugs*

Which could account for some of the stumbling that some witnesses have reported seeing. I think he's been described as "running and stumbling away" from the officer, and also stumbling back toward him after turning around.

 

[Dana]

Who knows, maybe he initially thought he was going to stuff his stolen merchandise down his pants. Kinda difficult when said pants are hanging too low.

Also, the act of running would lend itself to a "wardrobe malfunction" when your pants are already half falling off. *shrugs*

LOL wardrobe malfunction!

I had to laugh... the 1st night of the protests when rioting broke out someone shot video of some guy looting a store. He crawled out through a broken window, started to run, fell OVER HIS PANTS and then dropped 1/2 of what he was trying to steal. Sure, the violence was tragic but that really was funny. "PANTS UP, DON'T LOOT" <-I believe another poster came up with this chant. LOL Betty, your post reminded me of that all over again!



Lovejac, don't ya just hate when someone bold face lies online and there's no way to make fun of them on their own website? I DO! LOL

 

[BirdycatNY]

Which could account for some of the stumbling that some witnesses have reported seeing. I think he's been described as "running and stumbling away" from the officer, and also stumbling back toward him after turning around.

I tend to think you may be right...and it also would possibly indicate both hands weren't up b/c then wouldn't MB shorts presumably fall down to his ankles. idk

 

[al66pine]

BBM..... I think it's more of a geographic divide, extreme poverty vs middle class.
....http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_678334ce-500a-5689-8658-f548207cf253.html

sbm bbm

K_Z
Thx for informative link. I agree w your assessment K_Z about the gist of article.
But, I wonder if underscored phrase below was fact-checked, which in turn makes me wonder about accuracy of other info in story.

"CAGED IN
Making matters worse in the eyes of some apartment residents,
police have closed off nearly all access points with concrete barriers and fencing.
About a year ago, a gate went up on the main thoroughfare that&#8217;s typically open only during the school year so buses can head to Koch Elementary School...."

Paid, professional reporter writes: police closed off area w concrete barriers and fencing?

(sarc alert)
Really? Some FPD LEO's threw some concrete barriers* into their cruisers' trunks and
placed them the way they decided chop up the city?
And they used pile-drivers to dig holes to set posts, mix concrete, erect fences? Really?
So what tasks & projects do FergusonMunicipal Services employees in Public Works Dept handle?
http://www.fergusoncity.com/104/Public-Works
Vast conspiracy in FPD to cage in a neighborhood?
Or were barriers & fences proposed by muni services? Reviewed by a supervisor, maybe a city commission?
Maybe some requests from the school district?
Now done w this topic, hoping to avoid hair-splitting discussions.
(end sarc)

* {{{ETA: Not sure if this is exact barrier Ferguson uses,
"Jersey Barrier is very heavy, something like 600 lbs. per linear foot of barrier."
from http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Jersey_Barrier.html
LEOs can just toss a half dozen into each of their cruisers' trucks? }}}

 

[oh_gal]

Does anyone have any thoughts about why MB's shorts seemed higher in robbery video than in the picture of him laying deceased in street? Someone may have covered this but I didn't see it, and I don't wear shorts/pants like that so do not know the logistics of movement...TIA

I can't offer any insight, either, as I don't understand the whole, "pants hanging down so low they impede your movements"....maybe the coolness factor is in having the ability to walk with your pants halfway down your thighs...rather like trying to keep a hula-hoop going around your waist...?

 

[oh_gal]

I tend to think you may be right...and it also would possibly indicate both hands weren't up b/c then wouldn't MB shorts presumably fall down to his ankles. idk

A brilliant observation, imo.

 

[Dana]

I asked some neighborhood kids about this whole pants hanging low thingy and they told me that it's a prison statement. As in, our heroes are prisoners and this is how we support them by showing solidarity or some nonsense. They could have been messing with me but mostly thugs started this wonderful fashion statement.
I can't see how they figure they can break the law and run fast with all that solidarity hanging below their butts and not get caught lol

 

[Truthy]

It's this behavior that tells me I am different from those folks, plain and simple. We may all be human but we are not all the same.

Please elaborate what "folks" are you speaking of?

 

[tlcya]

in regards to pants hanging low and how they might factor into this case, didn't at least one of the witnesses (Brady maybe) described MB seeming to clutch his arm to his stomach. Wondering if he was using that arm to hold up his drawers and then once hit, pulled that arm incloser to his stomach, gaurding. Also wondering depending on how he held up his pants (at the crotch or at the side, I have seen it done both ways) where his forearm would be during that manuever and if it factors into where the arm shots landed.

Just some thoughts.

 

[katydid23]

Please elaborate what "folks" are you speaking of?

The folks who wear their pants down below their cheeks?

 

[oh_gal]

I asked some neighborhood kids about this whole pants hanging low thingy and they told me that it's a prison statement. As in, our heroes are prisoners and this is how we support them by showing solidarity or some nonsense. They could have been messing with me but mostly thugs started this wonderful fashion statement.
I can't see how they figure they can break the law and run fast with all that solidarity hanging below their butts and not get caught lol

So...is there any truth to the idea that having your pants hang down like that was a sign of "availability" to other men in prison? Maybe it's just a myth that real prisoners chuckle over, idk.

 

[Truthy]

Do you think witness testimony is more reliable than forensics?

As I had just been discussing (context helps!) sometimes forensics tells you little to nothing. So, yes a few witnesses whose testimony is not ruled out by forensics would be very helpful! The more witnesses the better in my book.

 

[Dana]

in regards to pants hanging low and how they might factor into this case, didn't at least one of the witnesses (Brady maybe) described MB seeming to clutch his arm to his stomach. Wondering if he was using that arm to hold up his drawers and then once hit, pulled that arm incloser to his stomach, gaurding. Also wondering depending on how he held up his pants (at the crotch or at the side, I have seen it done both ways) where his forearm would be during that manuever and if it factors into where the arm shots landed.

Just some thoughts.

Maybe, could have happened.

You could go even a step further and maybe MB WAS trying to pull at his pants and OW thought he was going for a weapon?

 

[Dana]

So...is there any truth to the idea that having your pants hang down like that was a sign of "availability" to other men in prison? Maybe it's just a myth that real prisoners chuckle over, idk.

LOL!!!! I never thought of that! Sheesh, am I naive!

 

[bettybaby00]

LOL wardrobe malfunction!

I had to laugh... the 1st night of the protests when rioting broke out someone shot video of some guy looting a store. He crawled out through a broken window, started to run, fell OVER HIS PANTS and then dropped 1/2 of what he was trying to steal. Sure, the violence was tragic but that really was funny. "PANTS UP, DON'T LOOT" <-I believe another poster came up with this chant. LOL Betty, your post reminded me of that all over again!



Lovejac, don't ya just hate when someone bold face lies online and there's no way to make fun of them on their own website? I DO! LOL

BBM :floorlaugh: I missed that :lol:

I don't get it at all.

 

[bettybaby00]

I asked some neighborhood kids about this whole pants hanging low thingy and they told me that it's a prison statement. As in, our heroes are prisoners and this is how we support them by showing solidarity or some nonsense. They could have been messing with me but mostly thugs started this wonderful fashion statement.
I can't see how they figure they can break the law and run fast with all that solidarity hanging below their butts and not get caught lol

So...is there any truth to the idea that having your pants hang down like that was a sign of "availability" to other men in prison? Maybe it's just a myth that real prisoners chuckle over, idk.

Evidently not...

caution...cause well it's urban dictionary!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sagging