MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #20

[LambChop]

I'm going with Chief Belmar's statement regarding the preliminary investigation showing "the entire scene from uh, from approximately the car door to uh the shooting is about 35 feet" until further information is released. (At 1:14 here: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=60b_1407692122). First, the bold are qualifiers and indicate it's not an exact measurement. Second, any figures he has have likely been provided by on scene investigators. Now, they could have said 35 yards, and he misspoke and said 35 feet. (I doubt it.) But the grand conspiracy some on SM are clinging to as the false narrative is exposed is desperate and weak, IMO.


The witnesses' discrepancies versus autopsy and other data are relevant because they have stated they witnessed the shooting. If material details they state don't match the data, either they've lied about having seen the event or they've lied about what they saw. For example, someone said Michael was shot and on the ground, when Officer Wilson walked over and fired more shots into him from above; completely discredited by autopsy details.

Could he be talking about where they estimated OW started to shoot MB?

 

[reedus23]

Just went back and read Shaun Kings piece again.

He just measured the distance between Officer Wilson's vehicle and MB body to come up with the 100 feet.

Has anyone shown us where Officer Wilson was standing when he shot MB? I haven't seen anything like that. The forensic team that processed the scene can tell exactly where he was standing when the shots were fired. I'll be waiting for that information.

In the meantime, all we're left with is a group of 'folks' who believe Shaun King, who has no official crime scene photos, and a group of 'folks' who believe LE. Regardless, what Shaun King has tweeted doesn't prove the Chief a liar to me.

Nope and that's important. Did he misstate the facts? Forget being a liar because I understand that carries a connotation that not everyone is comfortable with. I'm just trying to figure out if you are of the belief that MB came to rest 35 feet or was Belmar wrong when he said that?

 

[reedus23]

I'm going with Chief Belmar's statement regarding the preliminary investigation showing "the entire scene from uh, from approximately the car door to uh the shooting is about 35 feet" until further information is released. (At 1:14 here: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=60b_1407692122). First, the bold are qualifiers and indicate it's not an exact measurement. Second, any figures he has have likely been provided by on scene investigators. Now, they could have said 35 yards, and he misspoke and said 35 feet. (I doubt it.) But the grand conspiracy some on SM are clinging to as the false narrative is exposed is desperate and weak, IMO.

The witnesses' discrepancies versus autopsy and other data are relevant because they have stated they witnessed the shooting. If material details they state don't match the data, either they've lied about having seen the event or they've lied about what they saw. For example, someone said Michael was shot and on the ground, when Officer Wilson walked over and fired more shots into him from above; completely discredited by autopsy details.

I hear ya. Still a misstatement.

 

[reedus23]

Could he be talking about where they estimated OW started to shoot MB?

So he was 65 feet away from him and maybe got to within 60 feet if that other company is correct on analyzing the shots. Makes it a lot harder to believe MB was a threat if his hands were up.

 

[reedus23]

Could he be talking about where they estimated OW started to shoot MB?

It's really pretty simple Lambchop. He misspoke. It's a misstatement. It's not a big deal and isn't going to change anything. I think LE will create more credibility problems trying to explain it away. If it were me, I'd never address the dang issue. I mean, how's it going to come into play anyways? The crime scene analysis will tell us everything we need to know.

I think some people are having reactions to twitter folks who are latching on to this King guy. So some yahoo on twitter is saying something and a few dozen people are latching on to him. So what. It doesn't mean there's some grand conspiracy but by trying to explain it away almost legitimizes his argument.

 

[Klood-N]

I was posting some examples from his twitter feed when my Internet glitched and ate it. Suffice it to say, Shaun King has his "facts" wrong as a matter of course, IMO. Examples: he erroneously states there were no FOIs, and the jury is the one who "stalled" til January. No one stalled and it wasn't the jury who made that decision!

Just another person looking to benefit from Michael's death, in my view.

 

[LambChop]

So he was 65 feet away from him and maybe got to within 60 feet if that other company is correct on analyzing the shots. Makes it a lot harder to believe MB was a threat if his hands were up.

No. I said started to shoot. Remember there was a pause on the audio. The witnesses claimed OW was running after MB until he turned and headed back. Keep in mind there was more than one investigator on the scene and each one does their own thing. The report does not always go together at once. So it's not clear exactly what he meant and until we get all the information we won't know why the Chief stated 35 feet. What witnesses we have heard from seem to agree they were close to one another during those final shots. We just have to wait. jmo

 

[katydid23]

I don't think that the distance between the SUV and the body is really that important anyway. What matters most is where the officer was in relation to MB. NOT the SUV. So that whole thing is kind of a red herring anyway.

 

[DebinGA]

The bullets went into MB, but the brass cartridges ejected out the right side port, if I understood the mini-lesson my dh just gave me using his 9mm Glock semi-automatic. The evidence cones marking the location of the spent cartridges will tell where OW fired his gun, unless the surface was sloped enough for them to roll downhill, which it doesn't seem to be.

Pic of evidence cones near MB at the scene: http://🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.fil...mike-body-and-evidence-cones1.jpg?w=645&h=484

If those cones mark the cartridges, OW wasn't very far away from MB imo.

 

[Oceans]

It's not against the law for the police to lie or not tell all the details.
http://www.[link removed]/news/police-can-lie-to-you/

Exactly!

Sometimes it's a tactic to obtain evidence or information to solve a crime.

Great info at the link you provided! Thanks!

 

[Klood-N]

Oy. I bit the bullet and read through King's storify. There's soooo many errors in info and logic in that flow. Assumes Wilson stayed next to SUV, thinks Mike was shot from behind vs autopsy, makes erroneous assumptions about what qualifies as a justifiable homicide, he mentions the construction worker but fails to point out the math regarding Michael advancing on Darren and that Darren was retreating per same statements, etc. The PR101 comment he made? One of the reasons I consider him an opportunist in this case.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/shaunking?_mSplash=1

There's more out there about him, and it's frustrating he's spreading disinformation, but he's a bit player seeking to aid the spin, IMO.

 

[TheDuchess]

Yeah, the chief wasn't a witness, just reporting what he had likely been told. He either was told 35 yards and said feet instead, or he was just unclear at that time. I don't see it as a big deal. In Lyric and Lizzie's case the police told the wrong timestamp of the surveillance video and nobody was calling for immediate termination of the chief there. :facepalm:

Or maybe the chief ain't so stupid and lied on purpose to filter out the false testimonies.

 

[Oceans]

I don't think that the distance between the SUV and the body is really that important anyway. What matters most is where the officer was in relation to MB. NOT the SUV. So that whole thing is kind of a red herring anyway.

The distance between the SUV and the body was easy to determine, just by measuring. And that info would have been right away available to use in a press conference, for instance. Maybe that was the reason why those 35 feet were mentioned, to give some kind of info right away.

But, as you stated, the important info would be the distance between ODW and MB when the shots were fired. This info is more complicated to obtain as it requires a series of forensic, like location of the shell casings, gun powder residue on MB's skin and closing, examining the wounds from which distance they might have been inflicted etc., evaluating videos from witnesses who videotaped the actual happenings. JMO.

 

[al66pine]

Originally Posted by UdbCrzy2 It's not against the law for the police to lie or not tell all the details.
http://www.[link removed]/news...an-lie-to-you/

Exactly!
Sometimes it's a tactic to obtain evidence or information to solve a crime.
Great info at the link you provided! Thanks!

Lawful for police to lie?
Ok, imo, when LE, detectives speak w suspects, per various ct rulings.

Diff, imo, when a Chief or spokesperson for dept addresses MSM or gen pub about crim case developments.
Imo, better for Chief
-to stick w generalities..... We are investigating, will keep working on case;
-to deflect questions.........More info as we piece it together.

JM2cts.

 

[Minette]

I don't have the energy to keep re-gnawing the same bone, but if anyone would like to follow some cases with real, innocent babies being 'executed' look at the threads for Hiawayi Robinson and Colton Turner. And you might want to throw your sleuthing skills at the case of Delano Wilson, a 1-month old baby who recently vanished without a trace leaving police with few leads and (IMO) a sketchy story from the father of a mugging in which the perps took only the baby and left his cellphone, money & weed. I'm really tired of the manufactured 'outrage' over the consequences of the actions this young man decided to take on that day. There IS a slaughter of innocents going on in this country, and it IS a cause worthy of outrage and marching in the streets and demanding consequences for the guilty, but this case has nothing to do with that and in any case will vanish from the national attention-span the minute the mid-term elections are over.

Sorry, I'm fresh from reading about YET ANOTHER 8 year old girl snatched off the street, raped, and murdered and I have to be real with y'all. So I'm taking a break from here.

 

[Klood-N]

Ok, I saw an episode of Brain Games regarding expert intuition of law enforcement personnel some time ago that came to mind recently regarding Officer Wilson.

Scientists have discovered a second type called expert intuition, which is the sort that comes from special training and experience. Studies of nurses in the 1980s, for example, revealed that those who had been in the profession for a long time tended to make better judgments and to do it more quickly. In a study published in the journal Science in 2011, researchers examined the brains of expert Japanese chess players and found that they utilized different regions of their brains while playing than amateurs did. In particular, they had more activity in the precuneus area of the parietal lobe, a region associated with visualizing images and episodic memory. When they needed to come up quickly with a move, activity surged in the caudate nucleus, where goal-directed behavior is rooted. The researchers believe that the experts’ intuitive skill resulted from a circuit that they had forged between the two regions from many years of training.
http://braingames.nationalgeographic.com/episode/20/

Here's part of the clip about LE expert intuition.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLivjPDlt6ApQhuYe9r7EVeWMGXJWAZsNw&v=kZN4zocRnN4

In essence, the episode says expert intuition allows LE to more quickly/accurately observe and act on information than laypeople, in determining a suspect as an example. Makes sense to me, and reinforces why laws allow for what the officer reasonably believes. Not only did the "for no reason" witnesses lack all the information Darren had at the moment he fired, but they also would not be as skilled at evaluating the level of risk or need as an officer.

Moo

PS There's more about LE intuition via google.

 

[Oceans]

Originally Posted by UdbCrzy2 It's not against the law for the police to lie or not tell all the details.
http://www.[link removed]/news...an-lie-to-you/



Lawful for police to lie?
Ok, imo, when LE, detectives speak w suspects, per various ct rulings.

Diff, imo, when a Chief or spokesperson for dept addresses MSM or gen pub about crim case developments.
Imo, better for Chief
-to stick w generalities..... We are investigating, will keep working on case;
-to deflect questions.........More info as we piece it together.

JM2cts.

IMO, only the Chief could clarify if he made this statement on purpose (for tactical reasons) or if he simply misspoke. Which is, IMO, very understandable considering the chaos which occurred right away, police and funeral personal couldn't do their job as it was dangerous shortly after the shooting, followed by protests, riots, looting causing more chaos. JMO.

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

[Most Respectfully Snipped]

:laughcry:

....maybe the coolness factor is in having the ability to walk with your pants halfway down your thighs...rather like trying to keep a hula-hoop going around your waist...?

 

[K_Z]

Oy. I bit the bullet and read through King's storify. There's soooo many errors in info and logic in that flow. Assumes Wilson stayed next to SUV, thinks Mike was shot from behind vs autopsy, makes erroneous assumptions about what qualifies as a justifiable homicide, he mentions the construction worker but fails to point out the math regarding Michael advancing on Darren and that Darren was retreating per same statements, etc. The PR101 comment he made? One of the reasons I consider him an opportunist in this case.

http://www.linkedin.com/in/shaunking?_mSplash=1

There's more out there about him, and it's frustrating he's spreading disinformation, but he's a bit player seeking to aid the spin, IMO.

Lol-- sometimes the titles and credentials people manufacture for themselves on sites like LinkedIn are entertaining. I translate this guy's info to: "a guy with an opinion, and some ideas, who knows how to post on social media." I especially love that he's "available for full time employment"!

I wonder if he knows Shawn Parcell? They should get together for coffee, lol! And add each other to their LinkedIn buddy lists!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Ok, I saw an episode of Brain Games regarding expert intuition of law enforcement personnel some time ago that came to mind recently regarding Officer Wilson.

Scientists have discovered a second type called expert intuition, which is the sort that comes from special training and experience. Studies of nurses in the 1980s, for example, revealed that those who had been in the profession for a long time tended to make better judgments and to do it more quickly. In a study published in the journal Science in 2011, researchers examined the brains of expert Japanese chess players and found that they utilized different regions of their brains while playing than amateurs did. In particular, they had more activity in the precuneus area of the parietal lobe, a region associated with visualizing images and episodic memory. When they needed to come up quickly with a move, activity surged in the caudate nucleus, where goal-directed behavior is rooted. The researchers believe that the experts’ intuitive skill resulted from a circuit that they had forged between the two regions from many years of training.
http://braingames.nationalgeographic.com/episode/20/

Here's part of the clip about LE expert intuition.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLivjPDlt6ApQhuYe9r7EVeWMGXJWAZsNw&v=kZN4zocRnN4

In essence, the episode says expert intuition allows LE to more quickly/accurately observe and act on information than laypeople, in determining a suspect as an example. Makes sense to me, and reinforces why laws allow for what the officer reasonably believes. Not only did the "for no reason" witnesses lack all the information Darren had at the moment he fired, but they also would not be as skilled at evaluating the level of risk or need as an officer.

Moo

PS There's more about LE intuition via google.

I don't believe it should be called intuition. That sounds too much like "hunch"
It's actually a evolutionary survival skill that subconsciously learned. IMO


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