MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #20

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

Did you make him sit through Al Sharpton with you? If so, he deserves to be sainted as well! :biggrin:

Plus extra treats

 

[katydid23]

Cops don't get to just shoot people because they are miscreants. There are countless people who have done the same or worse. Doesn't give carte blanch to shoot them. The threat to the public has to be an articulable threat at the time of the shooting, not some generalized threat of "Well he's a gang banger so it wouldn't shock me if he carjacked someone." To me, an articulable threat is, he has a gun, he's verbally threatening people, he's doing something in that moment in time of the fatal shots that created an articulable or immediate threat to someone else.

And for the obvious but ironic part....ask all the residents of Canfield Apartments who posed a bigger threat to them, MB or OW? Who did they fear more? Yes, I know, completely irrelevant from a legal perspective, but from a societal point of view, it is pretty ironic.

You keep ignoring the fact that MB had tried to murder OW in the car moments earlier. That makes him more dangerous than your average miscreant.
And that makes him an immediate threat to the publics safety. He attacked a police officer with no provocation. That was enough for the officer to see him as a dangerous threat to the public.

 

[reedus23]

Not sure why there is a discussion about the video when it does not make MB any less guilty of strong-armed robbery. What got him killed was attacking an officer, wrestling for the officer's weapon which discharged and failure to obey the officers directions in the process of being arrested.

It's very, very sad.

That's probably very true. Now the question of whether it was justified killing him. Even assuming all of that is true, had he surrendered himself to arrest or had he continued to pose a threat.

Question about the failure to obey the officer's directions. And Lambchop, please snip this portion if this isn't the thread for it but it seems to be germaine and it's something that has been eating at me ever since the first time people started saying that if an officer gives you an order, you obey it. What about Rosa Parks refusing to leave the designated white section of the bus? She refused the bus driver and the officers order that she move. Should she have obeyed that order and stood up? I do get it is such a different situation than MB's situation, so I'm just talking about in general terms when such a statement is made that one should always obey an officer's order. But because I recognize it has no bearing to MB's case, please snip if needed. I'm really just curious in the discussion on it and this might not be the forum for that.

 

[al66pine]

Where does the CRS derive its power to "insist" on dos or don'ts regarding a locality's city council meeting?

I jus posted about this if you can back up & read.
Briefly, Ferg City atty Stephanie Karr says no violation of Mo Sunshine law, because there will be only 2 city council members at each meeting,
so no quorum, so cannot conduct council business.

Wonder if Ferg will try holding a 2d series of Town Hall meetings (hopefully without fed interlopers, from city standpoint).

Also see my comment about no media. Hmmmm.

 

[katydid23]

Did you make him sit through Al Sharpton with you? If so, he deserves to be sainted as well! :biggrin:

Yep, he sat right here next to me. He snored through most of it though.

 

[reedus23]

bbm

As my post said, that was hypothetical events re something that conceivably make some ppl do a 180, away from being justified shooting.
I have no info about ODW's personal or professional life, aside from the MSM I've seen & read.
If there had been dirt in his HR jacket, seems like we might have heard about it by now, but not necessarily.
I'm not saying that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

ITA, what happened [whatever distance] from cruiser is hinge-pin of justified or unjustified.

If the two of us could sit together watching HD vid from 10 cameras and listen to surround sound of those 2-3-4-5min,
we might agree on justified or unjustified.

Lacking that, I look forward to forensic evidence and hope it's more enlightening than witness interviews w MSM.

jm2cts.

Oh I know it was hypothetical. I was just jumping off of that hypothetical on information that would seem to be pertinent.

 

[Linda7NJ]

That's probably very true. Now the question of whether it was justified killing him. Even assuming all of that is true, had he surrendered himself to arrest or had he continued to pose a threat.

Question about the failure to obey the officer's directions. And Lambchop, please snip this portion if this isn't the thread for it but it seems to be germaine and it's something that has been eating at me ever since the first time people started saying that if an officer gives you an order, you obey it. What about Rosa Parks refusing to leave the designated white section of the bus? She refused the bus driver and the officers order that she move. Should she have obeyed that order and stood up? I do get it is such a different situation than MB's situation, so I'm just talking about in general terms when such a statement is made that one should always obey an officer's order. But because I recognize it has no bearing to MB's case, please snip if needed. I'm really just curious in the discussion on it and this might not be the forum for that.

The difference is as stark as peacefully protesting and throwing Molotov cocktails at law enforcement. IMO


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[SnoopyDawgDawg]

Yep, he sat right here next to me. He snored through most of it though.

Discerning dawg!!

 

[Dana]

View attachment 59420

Snoops!!!!
I'm STILL cracking up over this pic!! LOL!



Katy, what a cute dog

 

[Wysteria]

That's just how much influence I believe the prosecuting attorney has in front of a grand jury. Part of my beliefs on that is not just the results but also talking to my friend who is on staff with McCulloch's office and those kind of statements go back years, not just in response to MB's case.

Thanks for the clarification.

If what you opine is indeed true (not implying in any way that you are untruthful); I am flabbergasted, or utterly naïve.

I've always considered myself relatively intelligent, I don't know what to say (or rather type). My college roomie ended up marrying the District Attorney. Last election he declined to run again, because their children were approaching their teen years and he wanted to focus more time on his family. We all ended up in the same county, and remain friends. This may sound dumb but what you opined never occurred to me.

 

[Lovejac]

I'm not going to quote you in case Lambchop needs to remove, but IMO what Rosa did is the definition of peaceful protest to me. Her sitting on the bus might have been breaking the law, but it wasn't harming anyone and wasn't dangerous.

MB was walking in the middle of a road, which is breaking the law, just like Rosa did, but his actions could have brought harm to someone (an emergency vehicle that needed to get through to help someone) and it was dangerous to him (he could have been hit by a car).

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think that is poor reporting. I know for a fact that not all homicides go to a grand jury. What is true is that all homicides in which criminal charges are sought go to a grand jury in St. Louis County. They don't use a preliminary hearing when seeking charges on a homicide. I think seedz point was that if they don't believe there is enough evidence to suggest an unjustified shooting, why go to the grand jury at all? I would agree with that. If there weren't enough to raise a question, it wouldn't be fair to OW to take it to a grand jury.

I wonder why St. Louis County never uses a preliminary hearing in murder cases? Is it because they have an advantage in getting an indictment when using the Grand Jury compared to a preliminary hearing?

I'm not a lawyer but I think that's why. What happens if the prosecutors aren't inclined to get an indictment? Can they use their advantage in the Grand Jury process to sway the jurors to not indict?

JMO

 

[katydid23]

Operation Ferguson ‏@OpFerguson Sep 13
Sunday September 21 at 11:00 AM Ferguson Protest at Edward Jones Dome. There WILL be cyber disruptions to coincide. | #NoJusticeNoFootball


I wonder what they mean by 'cyber disruptions.' Is ANON going to try and hack the stadium or something?

 

[al66pine]

Sorry, forgot who posted this link earlier this evening about new Community Center in Ferg, but TY.
http://fox2now.com/2014/09/19/new-community-center-opens-in-ferguson-this-weekend/
Glad they were able to remodel/renovate old church & school into community center.
~25-35sec in, vid shows various rooms, as reporter describes gym, teen room, etc.
The teen room has ...wait for it......
.
.
.
a foosball table.
Is Ferg. council counting on this to keep teens off the street & out of trouble?
Now, if they can just install a Tardis to time travel back to 1950's, it'll be a surefire success, lol.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Operation Ferguson ‏@OpFerguson Sep 13
Sunday September 21 at 11:00 AM Ferguson Protest at Edward Jones Dome. There WILL be cyber disruptions to coincide. | #NoJusticeNoFootball


I wonder what they mean by 'cyber disruptions.' Is ANON going to try and hack the stadium or something?

Eyeroll....

I predict it will fall as flat as the highway shut down


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[reedus23]

1) Seedz said FPD said x, I gave him the exact quote. Nothing to do with a report. But I'll address this claim. No, nowhere in the report does it state that no one in FPD had seen anyone, etc. I think I've seen others address this prior, but two officers responded to the scene of the strong arm robbery. That page was a report made by one of them, not by the entire FPD.

2) Really? He assaulted a store clerk and a PD and went for the officer's gun, but isn't a threat? Actually posts have articulated the possible threats Michael posed.

3) I didn't "leave it out". I referenced that "multiple laws" and posts addressed this. It's untrue that Wilson himself had to feel threatened as claimed. I believe he felt Michael was a threat to himself and others.

4) Re: "but he did". Are you now saying Officer Wilson executed Michael Brown?

Execute is obviously a flowery term, but he did kill him, yes. Do I think he unjustifiably kill him? Dunno.

 

[reedus23]

Its not fair to refer to mb size when we dont know dw size... at least i dont

Dorian did lie about the robbery at first, im sure he didnt want to incriminate himself. Dont think its just cause to toss out his testimony. And his account of what happened between ow and mb at the suv is corrobborated by tiffany mitchell

That is why i continue to refer to happened at the suv as the scuffle because there are multiple versions of what happened and i really dont what to believe besides that there was a scuffle

Still believe that the shooting was unjustified

But i will go through and read some of the older threads, links i was given though

Im open to the possibility of ow being innocent i just havent come across any credible evidence that suggest that he acted within reason

What happened when mb and ow came face to face after the foot chase is what the case hinges on

Glad i joined though

U all seem like a smart, fair minded bunch

What do you all think about the video of the guys where a man can be heard yelling "he had his hands up"?

It's ok to draw preliminary feelings about this. We all do. But just like I've said to others, there is a lot of evidence we don't know yet and we all need to be reserving judgment to a certain extent until that time. Based on what we actually know at this point, I would tend to agree with you, or at least that there's enough for an indictment, but there is more we don't know yet.

 

[K_Z]

Lmao!
Bold works for me, I'm on my iPhone using tapatalk,
Seriously, you don't have to accommodate me...unless you want me to read it, I'm just teasing you!


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It's come to my attention that our colleague, Linda7NJ is using a cell phone that is so old, it has only a 13" CRT black and white screen, and so big she has to wheel it around in a crate. I also heard her picture flickers a bit, and she's using tinfoil and rabbit ears to tune in WS more clearly while on the go. In the spirit of friendship and collegiality, I've decided to take up a collection of pixels for our friend, with the hopes that with the new pixels, she will be able to work out some kind of upgrade to her phone, so she can see red (literally, not figuratively!) Feel free to PM your excess pixels to Linda7NJ, and for the mean time, it would be polite to avoid red!

We love you, Linda7NJ! (And we know it's not your fault!)

 

[Linda7NJ]

It's come to my attention that our colleague, Linda7NJ is using a cell phone that is so old, it has only a 13" CRT black and white screen, and so big she has to wheel it around in a crate. I also heard her picture flickers a bit, and she's using tinfoil and rabbit ears to tune in WS more clearly while on the go. In the spirit of friendship and collegiality, I've decided to take up a collection of pixels for our friend, with the hopes that with the new pixels, she will be able to work out some kind of upgrade to her phone, so she can see red (literally, not figuratively!) Feel free to PM your excess pixels to Linda7NJ, and for the mean time, it would be polite to avoid red!

We love you, Linda7NJ! (And we know it's not your fault!)

Bahhhhh haaaaa haaaaaa
Lmao!
You're the best!!
(((Hugs)))

Send me your pixels peeps !!!!


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[reedus23]

Where does the CRS derive its power to "insist" on dos or don'ts regarding a locality's city council meeting?

I'm sure there's some legal authority for their existence. Insist does not equal command though.

I think it's all a good idea and frankly, I'd have members of the DOJ or CRS there too. If nothing else, as a buffer. The PD doesn't like it because they're not invited to the party but I think it's actually smart. It takes away any reason to chant or protest if no one is there to show the world. Should lead to more meaningful talk. No one will be grand standing for the cameras. Shahid isn't part of the community so he won't be invited. I think it's clever and smart. Eliminate the press and eliminate the outsiders. I think you'll get a lot of those people that wrote those notes to show up if there are no cameras. More level headed citizens will come out to it to speak, both in support and with concerns.