MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #8

[AuburnTxTiger]

"according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy."
"Dr. Baden said that because of the tremendous attention to the case, he waived his $10,000 fee."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

 

[KEVINinTO]

. BBM

Once again, reading several hours behind, so, sorry if this has already bn discussed at length.
Re self-proclaimed 'witnesses'
Has MSM shown/recreated camera angles from where witnesses said they saw shooting?

For ex:
---IIRC, Piaget said she was on her balcony, went downstairs, etc. What does an 'objective camera' show that she could have seen?
Didn't she report early-on (first or second day?) that she turned her cell/camera over to LE?
---Ditto woman/Piaget's employer who was picking up Piaget (IIRC)?
---Michael Brady, in interview w cnn Cooper Anderson, ~ 1- 2 days ago -said he watched event from his bedroom,
then went outside? What could he have seen? Any MSM vid or still pix from his apt to shooting scene?

I would also like to see a diagram, re car location, MB body location, etc. Thx in adv.

This is a good question. I have not seen in any of the MSM coverage an attempt to recreate vantage points of witnesses. I saw the Anderson Cooper interview of Michael Brady. Cooper stood outside Brady's apartment the whole time. A good journalist would have gone inside the apartment to get a look at Brady's actual vantage point. Cooper should have had Brady reenact how long it took for him to go from the bedroom of his apartment to the outside. If Brady's apartment was on the second on third floor I would imagine it would take some time to get out side. In the time that it took for Brady to get downstairs and out on the street he would have missed much of what lead up to the final fatal head-shots.

 

[Linda7NJ]

From a linked article, a comment re 'at least2 other guys w Brown." BBM

" Why was he so comfortable with getting out of the car. There were at least 2 other guys with Brown. This story is deeper than we all know."

I thought I had read everything about this horrible shooting but do not recall anything about 'at least 2 other guys'?
I missed it. Anyone? A link? Thx in adv.

Well they weren't with him 10 minutes before during the robbery...and DJ certainly hasn't mentioned a third...even Wilson's friend that have his side never mentioned a third.

I call BS on that comment

All IMO


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[Linda7NJ]

I was thinking that Baden, whose reputation appears to be very professional and respected in his field, agreed to do it but warned them he would not be giving anything but his opinion and that he was going to do a "straight" autopsy. I think they wanted that reputation to lend legitimacy. They hired Parcells also because of his unusual reputation and his seeming willingness to construct or spin things more in a light that favored the selected narrative.

That is why he is talking to the press and Baden is not. Baden was not going to give a phony dog and pony show.

ETA I think your thinking on this is interesting and now my wheels are spinning.

Oh why can't someone in the MSM actually do a little digging and get to the bottom of this????
They're just so darn lazy anymore... IMO




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[nightwatch]

Yes, I know this is Judy Melinek, but just to show how open minded I am (lol!), I will say that this is a very good description of the limitations of second, and subsequent autopsies. I was composing a post about second autopsies when this was conveniently posted less than an hour ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/opinion/melinek-michael-brown-autopsy/index.html





Now, this is my opinion, based on Attorney Crump's comments (which I'm still researching for the exact link, so take it as opinion till then).

The second autopsy info that the Brown family attorneys released stated that the second autopsy was completed after the official autopsy. And a subsequent comment references Dr. Baden arriving AFTER that second autopsy. It's my developing opinion that Dr. Baden himself didn't actually "do" the second autopsy-- that Shawn Parcells and his company arrived first and "reopened" the sutures from the first autopsy. I'm actually beginning to wonder if Dr. Baden ever gowned and gloved at all, or just looked at pictures, Skype/ face time, etc. He was willing to put his name on the autopsy, but I have strong suspicions that Shawn Parcells "did" whatever was "done" in autopsy #2. That's why Baden was so willing to waive his fee, and let Parcells go on the talk show circuit in his place. MOO. Speculation. Etc. That's why we heard so much of Parcells "speculating" about everything EXCEPT what Baden was willing to sign his name to. IMO.

I'm going to keep looking for the links I remember reading, and will quote my own post to add them when I find them.

Makes perfect sense to me. I also wondered why Parcells had so much to say and why no interviews with Dr Baden. No surprise to see strange partnership's and self serving people in these cases. Jmo

ciao

 

[bettybaby00]

Yes, I know this is Judy Melinek, but just to show how open minded I am (lol!), I will say that this is a very good description of the limitations of second, and subsequent autopsies. I was composing a post about second autopsies when this was conveniently posted less than an hour ago.

Now, this is my opinion, based on Attorney Crump's comments (which I'm still researching for the exact link, so take it as opinion till then).

The second autopsy info that the Brown family attorneys released stated that the second autopsy was completed after the official autopsy. And a subsequent comment references Dr. Baden arriving AFTER that second autopsy. It's my developing opinion that Dr. Baden himself didn't actually "do" the second autopsy-- that Shawn Parcells and his company arrived first and "reopened" the sutures from the first autopsy. I'm actually beginning to wonder if Dr. Baden ever gowned and gloved at all, or just looked at pictures, Skype/ face time, etc. He was willing to put his name on the autopsy, but I have strong suspicions that Shawn Parcells "did" whatever was "done" in autopsy #2. That's why Baden was so willing to waive his fee, and let Parcells go on the talk show circuit in his place. MOO. Speculation. Etc. That's why we heard so much of Parcells "speculating" about everything EXCEPT what Baden was willing to sign his name to. IMO.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/opinion/melinek-michael-brown-autopsy/index.html

I would really, really, really hate to consider that Baden would just "call it in" on this case, but unfortunately Parcells has been accused of doing just that as evidenced by the st. Lois dispatch article.

But this caught my eye.

What you can tell from a second or third autopsy is limited by autopsy artifact -- changes to the evidence caused by the performance of the first autopsy.

In the course of the first, legally mandated autopsy, the forensic pathologist will have taken the organs out and sliced them apart for examination. The gunshot wounds will have been probed, and sometimes even cut into.

I was having this discussion with a friend. I kept saying, but how can you have more than 1 autopsy or 3 given what happens to the body??? Doesn't the actual examination alter things???
It seems that it does.

More importantly, any pathologist hired by the family, regardless of expertise, does not have access to the crime scene and other evidence. Even Baden, in the report he prepared for the Brown family, concluded that without the clothing, evidence or scene information, he had "too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting."

This is interesting. Baden specifically said I didn't have all the crime scene evidence, yet a few days later, Parcells was on TV saying, when "WE" review the remainder of the evidence, the ballistics, clothing, witness testimony etc., "WE" will be able to determine what happened.

Given that Dispatch article, lord only knows if he "examined" things prior to Baden showing up....


Big mistake getting this guy involved.

ETA

I'm not implying in anyway that Baden didn't perform this autopsy. I just have to wonder if given the opportunity Parcells didn't take it upon himself to just take a looky before Baden arrived on the scene.

JMO

 

[Phoebeb]

. BBM

Once again, reading several hours behind, so, sorry if this has already bn discussed at length.
Re self-proclaimed 'witnesses'
Has MSM shown/recreated camera angles from where witnesses said they saw shooting?

For ex:
---IIRC, Piaget said she was on her balcony, went downstairs, etc. What does an 'objective camera' show that she could have seen?
Didn't she report early-on (first or second day?) that she turned her cell/camera over to LE?
---Ditto woman/Piaget's employer who was picking up Piaget (IIRC)?
---Michael Brady, in interview w cnn Cooper Anderson, ~ 1- 2 days ago -said he watched event from his bedroom,
then went outside? What could he have seen? Any MSM vid or still pix from his apt to shooting scene?

I would also like to see a diagram, re car location, MB body location, etc. Thx in adv.

I saw something from fox2 I think that had addressed just little bit of that. Said that from Piaget's balcony, the driver side door was not easy to see- she had view of passenger door and they showed her video.
Seems like the media with all their resources would do a compilation to show the eyewitness view to the scene.
I wonder if the FBI was able to zero in on the anonymous bystander in one of the other videos they received to find out who he was to question him. That would be an interesting account. He sure sounded like he had seen the shooting happen, the whole thing.

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

Oh why can't someone in the MSM actually do a little digging and get to the bottom of this????
They're just so darn lazy anymore... IMO




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So many references questioning Parcells qualifications.
"Shawn Parcells, a pathologist assistant based in Kansas, assisted Baden during the autopsy. Parcells joined Baden on Monday in speaking to reporters about their findings. In a 2013 story in the Post-Dispatch, some coroners and medical examiners in Missouri said Parcells has inflated his qualifications and performed autopsies without a medical license.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_e27c90b4-8fc9-5118-8f4b-ae98a9d0f552.html

 

[K_Z]

Yes, I know this is Judy Melinek, but just to show how open minded I am (lol!), I will say that this is a very good description of the limitations of second, and subsequent autopsies. I was composing a post about second autopsies when this was conveniently posted less than an hour ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/20/opinion/melinek-michael-brown-autopsy/index.html





Now, this is my opinion, based on Attorney Crump's comments (which I'm still researching for the exact link, so take it as opinion till then).

The second autopsy info that the Brown family attorneys released stated that the second autopsy was completed after the official autopsy. And a subsequent comment references Dr. Baden arriving AFTER that second autopsy. It's my developing opinion that Dr. Baden himself didn't actually "do" the second autopsy-- that Shawn Parcells and his company arrived first and "reopened" the sutures from the first autopsy. I'm actually beginning to wonder if Dr. Baden ever gowned and gloved at all, or just looked at pictures, Skype/ face time, etc. He was willing to put his name on the autopsy, but I have strong suspicions that Shawn Parcells "did" whatever was "done" in autopsy #2. That's why Baden was so willing to waive his fee, and let Parcells go on the talk show circuit in his place. MOO. Speculation. Etc. That's why we heard so much of Parcells "speculating" about everything EXCEPT what Baden was willing to sign his name to. IMO.

I'm going to keep looking for the links I remember reading, and will quote my own post to add them when I find them.

Here is the NYT article that quotes Dr. Baden as flying to Missouri on Sunday, Aug 17, 2014. Bolded by me.

One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/u...-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=1

Looking for the clip of Atty Crump saying on Friday (Aug 15) that it was "done".

 

[Linda7NJ]

I would really, really, really hate to consider that Baden would just "call it in" on this case, but unfortunately Parcells has been accused of doing just that as evidenced by the st. Lois dispatch article.

But this caught my eye.



I was having this discussion with a friend. I kept saying, but how can you have more than 1 autopsy or 3 given what happens to the body??? Doesn't the actual examination alter things???
It seems that it does.


This is interesting. Baden specifically said I didn't have all the crime scene evidence, yet a few days later, Parcells was on TV saying, when "WE" review the remainder of the evidence, the ballistics, clothing, witness testimony etc., "WE" will be able to determine what happened.

Given that Dispatch article, lord only knows if he "examined" things prior to Baden showing up....


Big mistake getting this guy involved.

Nope...it was brilliant. He's perfect for muddying the waters. He's exactly what they wanted and will continue to pay for.

For the Brown team, it's not about justice and it's certainly not about the truth...it's ALL about the money.

IMO




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[tlcya]

Well they weren't with him 10 minutes before during the robbery...and DJ certainly hasn't mentioned a third...even Wilson's friend that have his side never mentioned a third.

I call BS on that comment

All IMO


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hmmm, had not heard that. There was a more recent person that came forward that claimed he was with Brown BEFORE he went to grab the cigs. He claims they ran into each other and spoke just before the convenience store trip while Brown was on way there. He said something about how Brown had said he was feeling some kind of way and Brown said he felt like something was coming (paraphrasing) and it was bad vibes or something and his lord and savior Jesus Christ helping him. I cannot recall the man's name but he did not claim to be with him when the incident went down. Only a conversation before the cigs incident.

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

I saw something from fox2 I think that had addressed just little bit of that. Said that from Piaget's balcony, the driver side door was not easy to see- she had view of passenger door and they showed her video.
Seems like the media with all their resources would do a compilation to show the eyewitness view to the scene.
I wonder if the FBI was able to zero in on the anonymous bystander in one of the other videos they received to find out who he was to question him. That would be an interesting account. He sure sounded like he had seen the shooting happen, the whole thing.

I just hope this witness is not afraid to talk to LE. I'm just remembering that the store employee who was strong armed robbed by MB shortly before LE arrived did not call 911. A witness in the store phoned 911. I also hope this witness is not afraid to tell the truth.

 

[jggordo]

IMO Crump et al looked Parcells & Co up on the internet. If you look his firm up on the internet the webpage is impressive for all intensive purposes. To me it is misrepresentation at it's finest. I don't know how he gets by with what he's doing. If I were him I certainly would not want to dupe any attorneys, he may need their help one day.

JMO's

 

[Phoebeb]

Makes perfect sense to me. I also wondered why Parcells had so much to say and why no interviews with Dr Baden. No surprise to see strange partnership's and self serving people in these cases. Jmo

ciao

Wouldn't that be unethical? I don't think Dr B would sign his name unless he actually performed it, but sometimes I'm naive like that.
Although... What did you all think of that weird picture of dr. B and parcells posing together pre-autopsy. That was strange wasn't it? Almost too photo-op -ish... Hmm...

 

[AuburnTxTiger]

IMO Crump et al looked Parcells & Co up on the internet. If you look his firm up on the internet the webpage is impressive for intensive purposes. To me it is misrepresentation at it's finest. I don't know how he gets by with what he's doing. If I were him I certainly would not want to dupe any attorneys, he may need their help one day.

JMO's

In my opinion, the attorneys or their paralegals should have performed a google search on Parcells name. That's how I found the articles/links concerning his questionable credentials.

 

[SnoopyDawgDawg]

You said it. I had to turn it off. Talk about biased and a hypocrite. This so called reporter actually attempted to start trouble with Cpt. Johnson and incite the "protesters" around him.

I listened to about 72 seconds of the "reporter" earlier and that was 72 seconds too many.

 

[K_Z]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/21/st-louis-medical-examiner-slams-brown-family-hire/

Dr. Mary Case, ME St. Louis County has some comments about Shawn Parcells.

 

[William N]

"Parade".

I have never been convinced Leo Frank was not the responsible party. He tried to frame a factory worker named Connelly, I think, and his (Frank's) attorneys claimed Connelly was suspect due to the propensity of his race to lying.

Connelly was black.

Frank was ultimately convicted. Then kidnapped from his jail cell, taken to Marietta and hanged from a tree by an angry mob who, I can only assume, believed Frank was possibly going to appeal and escape justice.

They took lots of pictures, with smiling participants gathered around the hanged body of Frank dressed only in his prison nightshirt. And some burlap sack wrapped around his lower half.

The whole story is a tragedy. IMO, Frank was likely the murderer/rapist, but because of vigilantism, he became a folk hero.

Many disagree and feel Frank was targeted because he was Jewish. I cannot say. I was not there. Just going on research and gut.

The janitor name was not "Connelly," it was Jim Conley. So do you think Frank was guilty and Conley innocent? The current opinion is the opposite.

 

[Linda7NJ]

hmmm, had not heard that. There was a more recent person that came forward that claimed he was with Brown BEFORE he went to grab the cigs. He claims they ran into each other and spoke just before the convenience store trip while Brown was on way there. He said something about how Brown had said he was feeling some kind of way and Brown said he felt like something was coming (paraphrasing) and it was bad vibes or something and his lord and savior Jesus Christ helping him. I cannot recall the man's name but he did not claim to be with him when the incident went down. Only a conversation before the cigs incident.

I'm wondering if any of the local stores there sell bath salts? Brown IMO didnt appear to be in his "right" mind that day.

Would synthetic marijuana be classified as marijuana in the preliminary tox screen????

http://m.abc17news.com/news/synthetic-drugs-can-be-found-all-over-midmissouri/27115072







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[K_Z]

Wouldn't that be unethical? I don't think Dr B would sign his name unless he actually performed it, but sometimes I'm naive like that.
Although... What did you all think of that weird picture of dr. B and parcells posing together pre-autopsy. That was strange wasn't it? Almost too photo-op -ish... Hmm...

BBM. Depends on how Dr. Baden would define the actual hands on "work" of the process of a second autopsy. Would he personally define the autopsy as the hands on touching of the body? Or in his opinion, is the "autopsy" the PROCESS of evaluating the body? That is a VERY important distinction.

The real work, dissection, etc is already done during autopsy #1. Could be that his "assistant" merely "opened" some sutures that existed from autopsy #1, and made things easier for Dr. Baden to see. And perhaps he didn't need to "see" it in person to make a determination. Kind of like remotely conducted robotic surgery, IMO.

As another example, most people think that their surgical wounds are actually sutured shut by the operating surgeon. That almost never happens, in my experience at dozens of hospitals. The surgeon steps out, and the surgical tech (or PA) closes the last few layers. The surgeon tells the tech what kind of closure to do, and documents it in his dictation and on records.