MO MO - James Charles Stanford, 16, Overland, 1 May 1971

[Detective Bigby]

Here’s more information about the connection.

 

[teeby]

The height doesn't match, but if there's a question about the MP's height, it could be. Except if the family sent in DNA, it sounds like LE is already aware of the possibility and looking into it.

 

[GraceG]

Welcome! The paystub, if validated, is a promising clue. What concerns I have are as follows:

Height: The John Doe was listed as approximately 5 foot 8. Clinton John Doe 1972 - Oklahoma Cold Cases Your Uncle was 6 foot 3. 5 inches is a marked difference in height. Statute estimation is obtained from the measurement of the long bones, namely the humerus, tibia, and femor. If those bones are missing or fragmented from injury the ulna, radius, and fibula can provide a fairly accurate range for the height of the individual. In highly fragmented remains (I'm trained in human remains identification from aircraft crashes), they can be off by several inches, but in a pedestrian accident, it's not as likely to be off by that much. JUST my opinion though, a lot depends on the skill of the ME and of course, forensic tools have advanced greatly in the last 50 years.

Dates: James Charles went missing May 1, 1971 in Overland, St. Louis County, MO.
John Doe was hit by a car on June, 1972, in Clinton Oklahoma, over a year later. If James Charles was indeed traveling out of state (not sure about the convent story of the gf, as convents do not allow men to live within their walls), I would have thought he would traveled further than 500 miles in that time, though perhaps his plans changed as he traveled.

Paystub: Given that over a year passed from time last seen and date of the fatal accident, why would James still have a paystub in his pocket? Between changing clothes, laundry, etc, I would think it's likely to have been lost unless that was his ONLY form of ID and he was as careful with it as he would have been a driver's license. One report of items found on him was not a 'paystub" per se, but a blue mimeo bond sheet with hand-ruled lines, listing dates 06/16-06/30 (possible work schedule or record of employment?) Written on sheet - Mollincrodt or Mellincrodt. Mallinckrodt industry in Saint Louis was contacted and they had no records that matched this John Doe 1972.

There was also the cigarattes with a St. Louis County, Missouri stamp #42289 that was found in a pocket.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Doe Network: International Center For Missing and Unidentified Persons

Doe Network is an all-volunteer organization dedicated to bringing awareness to missing persons and unidentified persons throughout the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Europe, and Australia.

www.doenetwork.org

Case notes indicate the John Doe was released from jail the day prior (though why they wouldn't have his name then is odd). James Charles would have been 17, at that time so it would seem unlikely he would have been incarcerated in an adult jail.

Lastly - has this young man been ruled out as the John Doe in Oklahoma. He is the right height, and would have been around 20 when John Doe was struck and killed by the car. He has similar facial features, however, reports were leaning towards foul play. Went missing in 1968. John Wagner still missing from Monroe City, MO after 52 years

Case notes indicate the John Doe was released from jail the day prior (though why they wouldn't have his name then is odd). James Charles would have been 17, at that time so it would seem unlikely he would have been incarcerated in an adult jail.

The ME office that did the John Doe case was Oklahoma Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
Agency Contact Person: Angela Berg or Carlos Zambrano
Agency Phone Number: 918-295-3400 (Berg) or 405-239-7141 (Zambrano)

 

[Detective Bigby]

Welcome! The paystub, if validated, is a promising clue. What concerns I have are as follows:

Height: The John Doe was listed as approximately 5 foot 8. Clinton John Doe 1972 - Oklahoma Cold Cases Your Uncle was 6 foot 3. 5 inches is a marked difference in height. Statute estimation is obtained from the measurement of the long bones, namely the humerus, tibia, and femor. If those bones are missing or fragmented from injury the ulna, radius, and fibula can provide a fairly accurate range for the height of the individual. In highly fragmented remains (I'm trained in human remains identification from aircraft crashes), they can be off by several inches, but in a pedestrian accident, it's not as likely to be off by that much. JUST my opinion though, a lot depends on the skill of the ME and of course, forensic tools have advanced greatly in the last 50 years.

Dates: James Charles went missing May 1, 1971 in Overland, St. Louis County, MO.
John Doe was hit by a car on June, 1972, in Clinton Oklahoma, over a year later. If James Charles was indeed traveling out of state (not sure about the convent story of the gf, as convents do not allow men to live within their walls), I would have thought he would traveled further than 500 miles in that time, though perhaps his plans changed as he traveled.

Paystub: Given that over a year passed from time last seen and date of the fatal accident, why would James still have a paystub in his pocket? Between changing clothes, laundry, etc, I would think it's likely to have been lost unless that was his ONLY form of ID and he was as careful with it as he would have been a driver's license. One report of items found on him was not a 'paystub" per se, but a blue mimeo bond sheet with hand-ruled lines, listing dates 06/16-06/30 (possible work schedule or record of employment?) Written on sheet - Mollincrodt or Mellincrodt. Mallinckrodt industry in Saint Louis was contacted and they had no records that matched this John Doe 1972.

There was also the cigarattes with a St. Louis County, Missouri stamp #42289 that was found in a pocket.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Doe Network: International Center For Missing and Unidentified Persons

Doe Network is an all-volunteer organization dedicated to bringing awareness to missing persons and unidentified persons throughout the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Europe, and Australia.

www.doenetwork.org

Case notes indicate the John Doe was released from jail the day prior (though why they wouldn't have his name then is odd). James Charles would have been 17, at that time so it would seem unlikely he would have been incarcerated in an adult jail.

Lastly - has this young man been ruled out as the John Doe in Oklahoma. He is the right height, and would have been around 20 when John Doe was struck and killed by the car. He has similar facial features, however, reports were leaning towards foul play. Went missing in 1968. John Wagner still missing from Monroe City, MO after 52 years

Case notes indicate the John Doe was released from jail the day prior (though why they wouldn't have his name then is odd). James Charles would have been 17, at that time so it would seem unlikely he would have been incarcerated in an adult jail.

The ME office that did the John Doe case was Oklahoma Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
Agency Contact Person: Angela Berg or Carlos Zambrano
Agency Phone Number: 918-295-3400 (Berg) or 405-239-7141 (Zambrano)

There’s a yearbook photo of James in the Juniors section of 1972 to the school he attended.

Dates: I’d imagine it’s not uncommon for family members to get the date off, or have a very non-specific date of last contact. I wouldn’t be surprised and wouldn’t rule it out on that. The disappearance would be in the same year.

Heights: Height is very similar and it getting it a few inches wrong can happen considering it’s a deceased body but sure that’s probably the biggest issue I suppose.

Paystub: He had no vehicle and presumably no driving license. I find some of the case notes odd due to reasons you stated but I’m still hopeful for a correct submit.

(Edit: No with John Wade, sorry.)

 

[GraceG]

There’s a yearbook photo of James in the Juniors section of 1972 to the school he attended.

View attachment 602804

I’d imagine it’s not uncommon for family members to get the date off, or have a very non-specific date of last contact. I wouldn’t be surprised and wouldn’t rule it out on that. The disappearance would be in the same year.

Height is very similar and it getting it a few inches wrong can happen considering it’s a deceased body but sure that’s probably the biggest issue.

Thanks for the yearbook. Yes, the height wat the biggest sticking point for me, being off by 7 inches for a body that was likely accessed very shortly after death is noticeable. But ME"s can make mistakes and they didn't have the modeling we use now.

 

[Detective Bigby]

The height doesn't match, but if there's a question about the MP's height, it could be. Except if the family sent in DNA, it sounds like LE is already aware of the possibility and looking into it.

Yeah they have had multiple people already submit this.

 

[Detective Bigby]

Thanks for the yearbook. Yes, the height wat the biggest sticking point for me, being off by 7 inches for a body that was likely accessed very shortly after death is noticeable. But ME"s can make mistakes and they didn't have the modeling we use now.

Thanks for commenting. This is my very first post on this website so I hope to do it justice!

 

[GraceG]

Thanks for commenting. This is my very first post on this website so I hope to do it justice!

There are some really sharp people here and you should find them helpful. You gave us a lot of good info to work with.

Sunday is sort of quiet here as a general rule, so you'll likely see more responses later.

 

[truthfinder2019]

Distinguishing Marks/Features: Circumcised.

1803UMOK

 

[Detective Bigby]

Distinguishing Marks/Features: Circumcised.

1803UMOK

Most boys at that time were circumcised so I don’t think that adds much.

 

[Bluebesa]

Good afternoon! I'm a new member and just came across your post—I found it extremely interesting and well-written. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Detective Bigby]

Good afternoon! I'm a new member and just came across your post—I found it extremely interesting and well-written. Thank you for sharing!

Thanks. This is my first post on here so I appreciate it.

 

[Knitty]

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