No we do not know if the computer was taken. There have been no reports in MSM that the computer (desktop and/or laptop) have been removed from the home.
MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #12
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No we do not know if the computer was taken. There have been no reports in MSM that the computer (desktop and/or laptop) have been removed from the home.
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MOO ...
BBM: I'm not buying it either ...
Here's what an "intruder" would have to overcome to get Baby out with NO ONE hearing or seeing anything :
1. Open the screen / window without any noise that would wake up someone in the house, or maybe even a neighbor could hear.
2. Open the screen / window without any neighbors or passers-by seeing intruder open the screen / window while "breaking" into house.
3. Lights -- did intruder need more light to see, was there enough light for intruder ?
4. While in the house ... NOT be heard by the Mother or anyone else in the house.
5. While in the house ... NOT be heard by the Dog - even if dog is in yard -- dogs "sense" "danger" !
6. Keep a 10 month old Baby QUIET, so baby's cries do not wake up anyone else in house.
7. Walk through house from Baby's room ... see what intruder can "steal" ... "steal" the 3 cell phones sitting on the counter... and hope these 3 cell phones do NOT ring.
8. Unlock front door and make sure that while unlocking the front door, it does not wake someone in house up.
9. Exit house and make sure no one in house sees or hears intruder leaving.
10. Exit house and make sure none of the neighbors or passers-by see intruder leaving with Baby ...
Now ... the intruder could have taken the phones first, then baby ... either way, intruder has a lot of to do without being seen or heard ...
IMO ... if an "intruder" just kidnapped Baby Lisa, and did not take 3 cell phones ... maybe ...
I'm still stuck on the 3 cell phones ... and particularly, Baby Lisa NOT CRYING if she was taken by an "intruder".
MOO ...
D
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Interesting story about internet sleuthing and statement analysis on this case.
http://news.yahoo.com/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-statements-picked-apart-201100839.html
http://news.yahoo.com/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-statements-picked-apart-201100839.html
It almost looks like Lisa's room is supposed to be a bathroom (it is so small), and speaking of which where are the bathroom(s)?? Curious only since children have a habit of getting up during the night; another thing that could have gotten the intruder caught.
:waitasec:
Don't know and it is frustrating that they are not offerring any clues what they are looking for. Examples they could be looking for: a key, earring, nose ring, metal zipper, parts of a cell phone, weapon like a knife, basically anything that a metal detector would pick up and alert on. Whatever it is imo it would have to be small as they haven't found it with their eyes alone. I am tending to think something more than just the cell phones were taken from the house.
Dr.Fessel
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That article should be stamped with a big ole For Entertainment Purposes Only like the blogs of these people are.
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Thanks, I saw that BeanE. It sounded to me like they searched a wooded area that led up to the river, not the river itself. Was hoping an actual search of the river itself was taking place; though I imagine with the size of the river, that would be quite an undertaking. Trying to find a little 10 month old, which I don't even like to think about... Must be like the proverbial needle and haystack.
Hate thinking about it, but like others have said, the river being so close is hard to ignore.
Is the bike riding guy different from the handyman?
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Kmbc live wire reporting that LE came out in response to neighbors complaints about media.
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
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Snipped by me.
Okay, you are making a lot of sense in this post and I don't like it (I'm trying so hard to keep giving the parents the benefit of the doubt), lol. What if the cell phones had rang and woke Lisa. Most babies who are startled awake don't just whimper they really scream and if the perp had to walk far to his car I would think that a screaming baby would have woke someone in the neighborhood. That is a really big chance to take. So did he take that chance or did he take the time to turn the phones off? Either way this perp seemed to be mighty comfortable in that home and with their "possessions" (quotes because I hate referring to any child that way).
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I wondered that too. Even worse, is either of them the same as the teen (if said teen is 17/18/19, could be taken for a 20-something bike guy :waitasec: ) ??
BBM
Excellent list, and the items I bolded are especially interesting since they are definite unknown variables that the intruder would have a difficult time controlling. While a hand could be placed over the baby's mouth to muffle her cries, it also takes away the intruder's free hand to pick up the phones (if not already done on the way to her room) and to unlock and open/close the front door. The only way to control the cell phones from not ringing to alert whoever is inside the house would be to silence them upon entry into the house, which would also take additional time, and delay getting to the objective if indeed it was to abduct the baby. I cannot see a random burglar deciding once inside the house to abduct a 10 month old baby. The baby must have been the primary focus.
MOO
This is interesting. Okay, well, maybe just to me.
I just did a search on Twitter for kidnapped baby and then for abducted baby. Not a single reporter or news station tweet came up since Oct 4 & 5. In other words, the reporters and news stations are no longer referring to Lisa as kidnapped or abducted, like they were at first.
In other vaguely related news, the FBI has still not listed Lisa on its Kidnappings/abductions page:
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/@@wanted-group-listing
Hailey Dunn was just added to the FBI kidnapping page a few days ago.
http://www.kcbd.com/story/15643786/hailey-dunn-case-declared-kidnapping-by-dallas-fbi
I saw on the noon news that LE was in Edwardsville searching. I don't think they found anything, but I did recognize the exact location.
Where they were searching is right across the river from the dump. The street they were on is west of I-435 and is the first street next to the river. It's an industrial area, but there's quite a bit of traffic because once you make the turn to head north, there's a neighborhood. There's also a park at the bend in the road prior to reaching the houses. Not sure if it's a park-like setting, or for the fisherman. I didn't see the river on the news report, so I am not sure if they mentioned that or not.
I wonder why they were there? I wonder if there are relatives that live in Edwardsville? If I thought they would be out there today I'd drive over and see what's going on, but I think they are done with that area.
I can see LE checking Deffenbaugh's dump. Deffenbaugh handles the trash for a lot of the greater KC area, but this area is different. Why would they be there? It's quite a drive from where the family lives. I guess it could have been a tip they were following up on and were checking it out.
There was a dredger out in the river right about where they would have been searching. Not sure if they are still there dredging, as they've been there most of the summer, even when the river was high, which I thought would be a tad bit frightening. The Corp of Engineers is supposed to start limiting or ending sand dredging in the river ... or that's what we heard, so maybe this company was out there getting it's last bit of sand. But then I don't know if they changed that or not yet. Also, this dredging outfit is there at night. I don't know if anyone is on the dredge at night, but the lights are on at night. I'll drive out that way today and see if the dredge is still there. Maybe someone on the dredge saw something. Maybe not.
The river has been very high. We had flooding up north and it's just now starting to recede. Typically during the summer, if the river isn't high, that area, especially just east of I-435, has quite a few fishermen. The intake for the Johnson County water is east of the highway and the fishermen walk out on the stone (or might be concrete) to fish. This stone or concrete is there to divert water toward the intake area for JOCO water. It's not blocked off, but there's a diversion area. If the water is high, you can't access the concrete/rocks. It seems like the other day when I went that way I could see some of the rocks.
Anyway, my point is, if the water is low, anything that goes in the river upstream has a good chance of getting hung up for either a little bit or for a long time.
Where they were searching is right across the river from the dump. The street they were on is west of I-435 and is the first street next to the river. It's an industrial area, but there's quite a bit of traffic because once you make the turn to head north, there's a neighborhood. There's also a park at the bend in the road prior to reaching the houses. Not sure if it's a park-like setting, or for the fisherman. I didn't see the river on the news report, so I am not sure if they mentioned that or not.
I wonder why they were there? I wonder if there are relatives that live in Edwardsville? If I thought they would be out there today I'd drive over and see what's going on, but I think they are done with that area.
I can see LE checking Deffenbaugh's dump. Deffenbaugh handles the trash for a lot of the greater KC area, but this area is different. Why would they be there? It's quite a drive from where the family lives. I guess it could have been a tip they were following up on and were checking it out.
There was a dredger out in the river right about where they would have been searching. Not sure if they are still there dredging, as they've been there most of the summer, even when the river was high, which I thought would be a tad bit frightening. The Corp of Engineers is supposed to start limiting or ending sand dredging in the river ... or that's what we heard, so maybe this company was out there getting it's last bit of sand. But then I don't know if they changed that or not yet. Also, this dredging outfit is there at night. I don't know if anyone is on the dredge at night, but the lights are on at night. I'll drive out that way today and see if the dredge is still there. Maybe someone on the dredge saw something. Maybe not.
The river has been very high. We had flooding up north and it's just now starting to recede. Typically during the summer, if the river isn't high, that area, especially just east of I-435, has quite a few fishermen. The intake for the Johnson County water is east of the highway and the fishermen walk out on the stone (or might be concrete) to fish. This stone or concrete is there to divert water toward the intake area for JOCO water. It's not blocked off, but there's a diversion area. If the water is high, you can't access the concrete/rocks. It seems like the other day when I went that way I could see some of the rocks.
Anyway, my point is, if the water is low, anything that goes in the river upstream has a good chance of getting hung up for either a little bit or for a long time.
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I have a court document from 2008 that I would like help decoding/understanding.
I tried to shrink it so it wouldn't eat up too much space in the thread, what it says is:
(I blacked out the name of the mother of Jeremy's son, as she is not been brought into the case by LE):
Date Filed: 07/17/2008
Location: Clay Case Type: FC CS Admin Order w/ Hrng
Disposition: Dismiss by Ct w/o Prejudice Date of Disposition: 10/21/2009
Judge/Commissioner At Disposition: ROBERTS, SHERRILL PAGE
Link for this:
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/nameSearch.do
Type in "Jeremy Irwin" and for the year type "2008".
So, what does "FC CS Admin Order w/ Hrng" mean? What does "Dismiss by Ct w/o Prejudice" mean? What does the date of disposition (10/21/2009) mean?
Thank you!
Reason for this sleuthing activity: My theory is that JI feared losing custody of his son and so staged this kidnapping with DB to prevent that. This appears to have resulted from an accidental death IMO, as no other motive for the parents is visible to me at this time. They appear to have loved this child. MOO.
:seeya:
I tried to shrink it so it wouldn't eat up too much space in the thread, what it says is:
(I blacked out the name of the mother of Jeremy's son, as she is not been brought into the case by LE):
Date Filed: 07/17/2008
Location: Clay Case Type: FC CS Admin Order w/ Hrng
Disposition: Dismiss by Ct w/o Prejudice Date of Disposition: 10/21/2009
Judge/Commissioner At Disposition: ROBERTS, SHERRILL PAGE
Link for this:
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/nameSearch.do
Type in "Jeremy Irwin" and for the year type "2008".
So, what does "FC CS Admin Order w/ Hrng" mean? What does "Dismiss by Ct w/o Prejudice" mean? What does the date of disposition (10/21/2009) mean?
Thank you!
Reason for this sleuthing activity: My theory is that JI feared losing custody of his son and so staged this kidnapping with DB to prevent that. This appears to have resulted from an accidental death IMO, as no other motive for the parents is visible to me at this time. They appear to have loved this child. MOO.
:seeya:
Jacie Estes
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Just want to put a thought into the mix. If this handyman is a tweaker, is it possible he could make a few bucks off of selling Lisa. He went in the house and handed Lisa out of the window to whomever he got the money from, on his way out saw the phones and grabbed them. We don't know if these phones are burners or are IPhones. Anyway, they could get a couple bucks from someone for them or higher end phone could be sold/traded. IMHO
It's not hard to cover a kid's mouth and take them out. Also, some kids may keep on sleeping, even if lifted. And some kids may not cry if a stranger woke and picked them up. Didn't the mom say Lisa is very friendly and will go to anyone?
I live in the historic district here in Jackson county. Even with the magnitude of some of the houses in my area alone, my rent is always cheaper than in JOCO as well as my electric bills. JOCO is a show off zone from all I've ever seen. I would rather save my money over here than show off some huge expensive condo
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