MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #8

[BeanE]

I just can't see someone opening a door or window and entering the house and opening baby Lisa's bedroom door (right beside mom's room?) taking Lisa, walking out with Lisa and leaving through the door and closing it AND no one hearing anything at all. Is there another exit/entry way other than the front door? Is there a screen door as well as an "inside" door? Closing any door with a child in your arms would make noise in my opinion, unless the perp is an expert in holding a 30 lb baby who's asleep. I don't know guys, I'm not seeing it. JMO

Especially when you throw in the juggling of 3 cell phones along with that 30 lb baby.

 

[Gardenlady]

Let's just suppose that the teenaged neighbor is responsible for taking little Lisa from her home.

He/She cannot take the baby to his/her house because his/her parents would know immediately. He/She would not need to use a car because all of these locations are within easy walking distance to his/her home.

However, he/she knows that there is a river about 4 blocks or so from the home. He/she could easily dispose of a baby in a fast flowing river in the middle of the night.

My gut feeling is that this teenager is a male and was seen by the passing motorist around midnight, he stole the baby in the middle of the night for sexual reasons, and when he was done doing what he wanted to do with her, he put her into the river. When he realized that he had stashed her clothing into a pocket of his clothing, he went to the dumpster and set the clothing on fire.

My guess is that as he was retrieving the clothing from his pocket, he inadvertently "butt dialed" one of the cell phones he had stolen from the Irwin home. Since the dumpster site, as well as his own home are in close proximity to the Irwin home, it stands to reason that cell phone pings would show as being from the same area/location--and not necessarily from the Irwin home itself.

So, that is the theory that I have been tossing around this afternoon. Any thoughts?

Also, why have we not heard of any searches being done near the riverfront if it is so close to the home?

This is exactly my current theory. Get outta my brain! Just not sure it was a pedophilia motive... maybe just a thrill thing. Either way, horrible. But the lead with the teen is the only thing making sense to me right now, as I absolutely do not see the parents being involved at this time.

 

[Donjeta]

"We need her. We have to have her. She's our link that ties everybody together," Irwin said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/lisa-irwin-missing-deborah-bradley_n_1000232.html

What do you make of this comment? It strikes me as thought-provoking (but I am not sure my thoughts have any relevance to Lisa disappearing.) Are the older children "his" or "hers" but not "theirs"? Am I right assuming that Lisa is the only one in the family who is biologically related to everybody else in the family and that's why she's the glue that holds everything together? It makes me wonder if there have been some problems fusing two existing families, step-parenting etc. A bit uncomfortable with the thought that the responsibility to keep the family together falls to a ten-month old baby's shoulders.

Probably not what he meant but that's the image it evokes in my brain.

 

[Coldpizza]

Long time lurker, first time poster. I hope I am allowed to say what I'm about to say:

When I look at pictures of baby Lisa, I see a child that is loved, well-fed, appropriately dressed, engaging with the people around her, and most of all happy. The fact that there are so many pictures tells me her parents and family are enjoying watching her grow and develop. If there was any involvement by the family, to me it would have to be a tragic accident, followed by panic.

As far as the dad, I don't think he is involved. I think he came home to a nightmare situation, and has no reason to believe his wife was involved. He would believe what she told him.

The mom, I'm just not feeling her. I do believe her tears are genuine- she is genuinely sad and heart-broken that her daughter is gone. Whether or not there is guilt mixed in with that sadness, well, I guess time will tell.

All IMHO, of course.

Great first post!!

:welcome:

 

[mysticrose]

Family of missing Missouri baby setting up reward


KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — Decades of statistics on infant abductions in the U.S. suggest one of the least likely scenarios in this week's disappearance of a Kansas City baby is that a stranger broke into her home and quietly snatched her from her crib.

But the numbers also lead national experts to believe that if 10-month-old Lisa Irwin were taken by an intruder in the middle of the night, as her parents told investigators, she is likely still alive.

Strangers who kidnap infants or young children, though rare, often do so because they want a child of their own, not because they intend to hurt or kill the child, said David Finkelhor, director of the Crimes Against Children Research Center at the University of New Hampshire.

"The recovery rate for infants is very, very high. There is real hope here," added Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in Arlington, Va

http://www.mycenturylink.com/news/read.php?rip_id=<[email protected]>&ps=1011

 

[Cappuccino]

For those of you who think its odd or suspicious that they came up with a dozen names for LE to look at, read Shefner's post. Shefner has actually been through this nightmare, and this is what happens when LE asks you for possible leads...

I retold every detail about my child that I could remember...every place we had been, every friend he had, every place he had spent the night, all of his teachers and classes and little hobbies. I pulled out all the pictures and awards and little hand prints....we took his room apart searching for any clue. There were no hours in the day...day and night all blended together.

That's what parents do when they're frantic about a missing child. They pull out any name they can think of who had contact with the child, in pure desparation. It doesn't mean they thought those dozen people were capable of such a crime.

 

[Jayarre]

I agree about the parents having an odd interaction with each other. I'm just observing and not throwing stones, but their interaction seems off. It's as though she looks at him and he stoically looks down or straight ahead. They may have been this way before this happened. I, of course, don't know them. :fence:

It reminds me of the Hormans at the PC after Kyron's disappearance

 

[BeanE]

NimaKCTV5 Nima Shaffe
Detectives from @kcpolice at this home in #LisaIrwin neighborhood for the second time. Updates on #KCTV5 News at 6 & 10 yfrog.com/nv3btaj
50 minutes ago

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Let's just suppose that the teenaged neighbor is responsible for taking little Lisa from her home.

He/She cannot take the baby to his/her house because his/her parents would know immediately. He/She would not need to use a car because all of these locations are within easy walking distance to his/her home.

However, he/she knows that there is a river about 4 blocks or so from the home. He/she could easily dispose of a baby in a fast flowing river in the middle of the night.

My gut feeling is that this teenager is a male and was seen by the passing motorist around midnight, he stole the baby in the middle of the night for sexual reasons, and when he was done doing what he wanted to do with her, he put her into the river. When he realized that he had stashed her clothing into a pocket of his clothing, he went to the dumpster and set the clothing on fire.

My guess is that as he was retrieving the clothing from his pocket, he inadvertently "butt dialed" one of the cell phones he had stolen from the Irwin home. Since the dumpster site, as well as his own home are in close proximity to the Irwin home, it stands to reason that cell phone pings would show as being from the same area/location--and not necessarily from the Irwin home itself.

So, that is the theory that I have been tossing around this afternoon. Any thoughts?

Also, why have we not heard of any searches being done near the riverfront if it is so close to the home?

I think your theory is very possible. I also think it's very possible that the teen themselves isn't involved, but his/her parents are.

 

[BeanE]

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Detectives back in #LisaIrwin's neighborhood for 2nd time today talking to neighbors. Pretty standard thing we've seen all week.
1 hour ago

 

[vlpate]

Let's just suppose that the teenaged neighbor is responsible for taking little Lisa from her home.

He/She cannot take the baby to his/her house because his/her parents would know immediately. He/She would not need to use a car because all of these locations are within easy walking distance to his/her home.

However, he/she knows that there is a river about 4 blocks or so from the home. He/she could easily dispose of a baby in a fast flowing river in the middle of the night.

My gut feeling is that this teenager is a male and was seen by the passing motorist around midnight, he stole the baby in the middle of the night for sexual reasons, and when he was done doing what he wanted to do with her, he put her into the river. When he realized that he had stashed her clothing into a pocket of his clothing, he went to the dumpster and set the clothing on fire.

My guess is that as he was retrieving the clothing from his pocket, he inadvertently "butt dialed" one of the cell phones he had stolen from the Irwin home. Since the dumpster site, as well as his own home are in close proximity to the Irwin home, it stands to reason that cell phone pings would show as being from the same area/location--and not necessarily from the Irwin home itself.

So, that is the theory that I have been tossing around this afternoon. Any thoughts?

Also, why have we not heard of any searches being done near the riverfront if it is so close to the home?

First, do you know this is a male they are talking about? I've not seen anything stating one way or the other.

Secondly, why leave all the lights on. If he was familiar with the house, he could have gone straight to Lisa's room without drawing attention if someone came in.

I believe what was found on the phone, the 2:30 a.m. call is going to turn out to be a text....JMO Instead of throwing just one phone away, they threw all of them away to use the 911 excuse.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/lisa-irwin-missing-deborah-bradley_n_1000232.html

What do you make of this comment? It strikes me as thought-provoking (but I am not sure my thoughts have any relevance to Lisa disappearing.) Are the older children "his" or "hers" but not "theirs"? Am I right assuming that Lisa is the only one in the family who is biologically related to everybody else in the family and that's why she's the glue that holds everything together? It makes me wonder if there have been some problems fusing two existing families, step-parenting etc. A bit uncomfortable with the thought that the responsibility to keep the family together falls to a ten-month old baby's shoulders.

Probably not what he meant but that's the image it evokes in my brain.

I caught that too, iirc one boy is her's and the other boy is his, lisa is theirs I would like to know which boy is her's and which is his

 

[mysticrose]

For those of you who think its odd or suspicious that they came up with a dozen names for LE to look at, read Shefner's post. Shefner has actually been through this nightmare, and this is what happens when LE asks you for possible leads...



That's what parents do when they're frantic about a missing child. They pull out any name they can think of who had contact with the child, in pure desparation. It doesn't mean they thought those dozen people were capable of such a crime.

Well good gracious if thats the case I could name at least 30 for sure.....

 

[Cappuccino]

First, do you know this is a male they are talking about? I've not seen anything stating one way or the other.

Secondly, why leave all the lights on. If he was familiar with the house, he could have gone straight to Lisa's room without drawing attention if someone came in.

I believe what was found on the phone, the 2:30 a.m. call is going to turn out to be a text....JMO Instead of throwing just one phone away, they threw all of them away to use the 911 excuse.

I don't understand, what 911 excuse? There was no delay in calling 911 if that's what you mean.

 

[momtective]

Let's just suppose that the teenaged neighbor is responsible for taking little Lisa from her home.

He/She cannot take the baby to his/her house because his/her parents would know immediately. He/She would not need to use a car because all of these locations are within easy walking distance to his/her home.

However, he/she knows that there is a river about 4 blocks or so from the home. He/she could easily dispose of a baby in a fast flowing river in the middle of the night.

My gut feeling is that this teenager is a male and was seen by the passing motorist around midnight, he stole the baby in the middle of the night for sexual reasons, and when he was done doing what he wanted to do with her, he put her into the river. When he realized that he had stashed her clothing into a pocket of his clothing, he went to the dumpster and set the clothing on fire.

My guess is that as he was retrieving the clothing from his pocket, he inadvertently "butt dialed" one of the cell phones he had stolen from the Irwin home. Since the dumpster site, as well as his own home are in close proximity to the Irwin home, it stands to reason that cell phone pings would show as being from the same area/location--and not necessarily from the Irwin home itself.

So, that is the theory that I have been tossing around this afternoon. Any thoughts?

Also, why have we not heard of any searches being done near the riverfront if it is so close to the home?

Unfortunately I think you're right. But I would so much prefer that the neighbor be a teenage female with issues, that just wanted a baby to love and take care of.

 

[Gardenlady]

All I can say is God help this child if Alonzo is her biggest hope of homecoming.

This guy strikes me as very puffed up and self serving. I doubt I will give much credence to tips he generates. I get a snake oil saleman vibe from him. JMO

I don't agree with Alonzo's theory about the parents, but he has, from what I can tell, been scooping the MSM on a couple of the stories - including the teen neighbor of the Irwins, and the parents/LE breakdown in cooperation/communication.

Been reading his posts for a while today. He is, as wfgodot said, quite a character. I think he plays an interesting role for the KC community - folks are often scared, especially in big cities with a higher crime rate, to call police with a tip, so Alonzo serves as a sort of middle man. People probably feel safer passing along a tip to him rather than police. He takes the tips and passes them along to police. He does sound a little puffed up, but I think his heart is in the right place.

 

[lalalemon]

Well would you look at that.... 220 people viewing Lisa's thread right now! Is that a record?!

 

[KaylynnCouture]

To the 101 guests viewing right now....come join us!! We'd love to have your opinions and insight on the case!

 

[wfgodot]

Well would you look at that.... 220 people viewing Lisa's thread right now! Is that a record?!

It's an excellent number considering this is a Saturday evening!

 

[Wishbone]

This just showed up on my FB wall. Alonzo Washington is an activist here in KC. I don't know what to make of this.



Please don't yell at me if the link doesn't work, I'm new at this!

Thanks for that link. He has some interesting opinions and statements on many elements of this case.