MO - Off-duty officer (Katlyn Alix) shot dead by on-duty officer (Nathaniel Hendren), Jan 2019

[PrairieWind]

Why am I thinking sex & drugs & R&R (Russian Roulette)?

Looking forward to toxicology results.

I think that is certainly a good possibility. I'm sure there are lots of people that know a lot more than is being reported. How awful for her husband!

 

[Tbone144]

I’m having a hard time believing this story.
Basic rules of gun safety are drilled into memory, I can’t believe that military and police haven’t had similar training.

Always treat a firearm as if it is loaded
Never point it at something unless you intend to destroy it
Never put your finger on the trigger until you are sure you are ready to pull it
Be sure of your target and what’s behind it
Always store your guns securely

It’s a gun, not a toy and adults should know better.

This story stinks of bs.

 

[HerculeHolmes]

Let us recall how fine the St Louis Police Department has historically conducted themselves:

St. Louis City’s Culture of Corruption

1. October 16, 2014, Police arrested a St. Louis city tow lot shift foreman for thefts from lot
2. July 11, 2014, the recorder of deeds resigned because of violations of state nepotism laws and allegedly misspent $130,000 between 2010 and 2014. However, after being re-elected after her resignation, she is now collecting both a salary and retirement from the city.
3. June 26, 2014, the mayor openly conspired with a municipal judge and the recorder of deeds to violate the state’s constitution to challenge same-sex restrictions on marriage. The mayor held press conferences and published information online announcing his abusive and illegal use of authority*.
4. May 15, 2014, James Wahl, a St. Louis Municipal judge was profiled as a flagrant violator of the laws he sits in judgment, on Inside Edition, a national television show.
5. Independent, The release of the video was originally delayed by St Louis Mayor Francis Slay.
   
   Dash Cam Beating: Police Officer Turned Off Camera
   
   
6. March 21, 2014, Jury awards $7.5 million to ex-St. Louis officer who claimed harassment, retaliation.
7. October 16, 2013, five parking attendants, employed by the St. Louis Treasurer were accused of stealing over $500 each in city parking revenue.
8. September 17, 2013, a “ghost employee” of the St. Louis Treasurer was convicted of stealing.
9. September 9, 2013, The chief park ranger and assistant forestry directory admitted stealing almost a half-million dollars.
10. February 22, 2013, a former building inspector was sentenced to jail for accepting bribes.
11. January 23, 2013, a St.Louis Municipal Judge’ working hours were reduced by two-thirds after her husband announced his candidacy against Mayor Slay.
12. December 13, 2012, two people connected with a city vendor were sentenced for stealing close to a quarter of a million dollarsfrom St. Louis parking meter operations
13. July 19, 2012, a municipal court clerk was sentenced for forging judicial orders.
14. April 25, 2012, a former municipal court clerk was convicted of altering court records.
15. March 15, 2012, the municipal court administrator hired her brother to perform financial services but did not lose her job because of nepotism violations.
16. March 12, 2012, municipal judge James Wahl, along with the municipal court administrator, chief park ranger, and the city counselor’s office participated in the questionable handling of a traffic ticket issued to the mayor’s son.
17. February 25, 2012, a St. Louis municipal judge resigned while being investigated by the Missouri Supreme Court’s Commission on Retirement, Removal, and Discipline.

 

[Hatfield]

This story is unbelievable.

JMO
It sounds to me all the officers that were present need to be immediately fired. They had no business being there playing with loaded weapons of any kind. Wow.

Most know that revolvers have cylinders that spin and IMO they are usually safer than semi-automatics because with semi-autos a common mistake is to forget about the "one in the chamber". With semi-autos, you can have a totally empty clip and still have one in the chamber and it can fire that one in the chamber.

With a revolver, you usually can see the edge of the cylinders and normally you either have all cylinders empty or all full. You can usually see the end of the shells in the cylinders except for the cylinder that lines up with the chamber. But with that one if you the hammer back which rotates the cylinder then the one lined up will spin away from the chamber.

Depending on if it was a double action or single action revolver will depend on if you can just squeeze the trigger to rotate the cylinder or if you have to the hammer back to rotate the cylinder.

But the bottom line is if they were pulling the trigger and it was not firing then it sounds like they were fooling around with a partially loaded weapon and that is a huge no-no that should get everyone present fired.

If one officer was not part of it he should have immediately called 911 to report the others as soon as he started to see them playing with guns.

This incident sounds like children playing with guns that they found from their parents or something. Totally insane.

At no time should there have only been 1 or 2 bullets in the cylinder and at no time should anyone be pointing a weapon at anyone else unless you intend to kill that person. Which they did of course. Loaded or not, gun safety 101 is to never point a gun at something you do not intend to shoot.

What scares me the most is to know there were paid officers fooling around with guns like this. Lets hope this is very much the exception and there are not others in the departments like them.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

can we add Katlyn Alix' name to the thread title? and perhaps the name of the officer charged (Nathaniel Hendren). I'll alert.

 

[PrairieWind]

Two questions: Why were Hendren and Hellmeier out of the patrol area and in Hendren's apartment? And why was Alix there? Answer those questions and I think we can fill in the rest. Were Hellmeier and Hendren in the same police vehicle or did they have separate vehicles?

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

yep, why was she there is my [first of so many] question. Unless Hellmeier is her husband, and I am pretty sure he is not, I can't figure it out. Hazing games? blue wall stuff that we will never accept.

 

[NewMama]

Also I’m curious as to the layout of the apartment as the shooting is reported as taking place in the living room but Officer #3 had left the living room but not the apartment. Maybe the foyer was partially walled-off?

 

[SoCalDavidS]

then I want to hear what honest and transparent policies will be enacted to assure that this does not happen again. for everyone's sake.

New Policy: Don't play Reverse Russian Roulette

 

[HerculeHolmes]

The plot thickens. Looks like IA bothced the toxicology draws under Garrity doctrine (intentional?).

In the letter, released Tuesday, Gardner says a police lieutenant erroneously told her office that a hospital would not honor a search warrant for the officers' blood. Gardner wrote that hospitals commonly accept search warrants in criminal cases.

The letter says urine and breath tests were later performed, but not a blood test, which can be more exact. They later learned that the samples had been obtained by internal affairs in a way that may block their use in a criminal prosecution. Officers generally must comply with internal affairs investigations, but that compelled testimony or evidence can't be used against them in court.

Gardner said the testing "appears as an obstructionist tactic to prevent us from understanding the state of the officers during the commission of this alleged crime."

St. Louis prosecutor questions whether police blocked investigation into officer's shooting

Additionally, I learned today that her husband is assigned to District 4 via SLPD and he was on-duty at the time of the incident. He is not listed on their wedding registry.

https://www.theknot.com/registry/co...eventYear=2018&reset=true&track=true&offset=0

Persons Directly Involved:
Katlyn Alix, 24 Cpl. US ARMY Reserve '12-'16.
Nate Hendren, 29, Cpl. USMC '08-'12.
Sgt. Richard Hellmeier

Other Persons:
Colonel John W. Hayden
Judge James Edwards
Lt. Green
Lt. Brown
Det. Strong
Atty Kimberly Gardner
Atty Scott Rosenblum

 

[PrairieWind]

The Latest: Prosecutor questions police over investigation

Uh oh! The prosecutor is concerned that the police department was obstructing drug and alcohol testing. The article also notes that there was probable cause at the scene that drugs or alcohol were possibly involved. Wow, what a huge mess on top of this tragedy.

 

[lonetraveler]

I’m having a hard time believing this story.
Basic rules of gun safety are drilled into memory, I can’t believe that military and police haven’t had similar training.

Always treat a firearm as if it is loaded
Never point it at something unless you intend to destroy it
Never put your finger on the trigger until you are sure you are ready to pull it
Be sure of your target and what’s behind it
Always store your guns securely

It’s a gun, not a toy and adults should know better.

This story stinks of bs.

I truly think that all those rules are totally thrown out of the window when Russian Roulette is involved. JMO

 

[SoCalDavidS]

This reminds me of my first thoughts upon hearing about the Oscar Pistorius shooting details. It was reported that he shot and killed her because he thought she was an intruder in his own home. I said to myself, that story is so unbelievable, it will never stand a chance. The authorities will be able to discredit it, and prove that it's utter BS.

But guess what? People are so gullible, especially here in the U.S., that if you told many of them that the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary, they would believe it. Just put someone on TV screaming FAKE NEWS, and it's enough to discredit a scientist coming on air and saying the earth is round. <modsnipped: please do not bring politics into the discussion>

I guess the dead cop's husband and family are the ones who should feel there is some cover up going on, so if they placed any value on the cop's life, they will get to the bottom of what occurred.

 

[lonetraveler]

It is very unfortunate IMO that a charge of Death resulting from major stupidity has not been made a part of the law.

 

[mickey2942]

New Policy: Don't play Reverse Russian Roulette

2. Don't go home, out of district duty area, unless you call in and explain why you are going home, prior to leaving duty station, get verbal approval from supervisor, with backup e mail. Otherwise it will be considered AWOL, and subject to immediate dimissal.

3. Report if your partner is playing Reverse Russian Roulette to supervision.

Here is the house on Zillow, it looks like if the other officer was still in the apartment, but not in the same room, the logical conclusion is that the only rooms with doors to shut would be the bedrooms and bathroom.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/750-Dover-Pl-Saint-Louis-MO-63111/2955636_zpid/

 

[GordianKnot]

New Policy: Don't play Reverse Russian Roulette

SoCalD, yes, I foresee a revised edition to the official SLPD Manual.
It is apparent that the HR department has been lax in their responsibilities to have clearly defined policies and procedures.

The proper response to the situation when you're challenged to a round of RRR on duty is one of those "gray areas" where it can be hard to make a judgment call, especially if you're not a seasoned LEO. It's no wonder these relatively new officers were so confused about the rules and regs!

In addition to the much-needed update making sure officers are aware that Reverse Russian Roulette is not permitted while on duty, they should also introduce a couple of other new policies, one of which explicitly states that "no police officer shall head-butt the window of a police cruiser while on duty but out of district" as well as one which expressly forbids fleeing the scene of a crime by officers while they are on duty but out of district.

JMO.

 

[GordianKnot]

<modsnipped quoted post>

lt, I'm anticipating that we'll learn there's a perfectly reasonable explanation for this.

IMO, what MSM has labelled as a game of "Reverse Russian Roulette" was in fact, actually a game of "Reverse Strip Russian Roulette."

The rules in this version of the game vary slightly. In "RSRR," every time you fire off the gun (at the other person, of course) and it does not discharge a bullet into their chest, you have to remove an article of clothing.

MSM will likely need to go back and issue an "update" to their original articles to correct this error.

JMO.

 

[Falcon500]

Let us recall how fine the St Louis Police Department has historically conducted themselves:

St. Louis City’s Culture of Corruption

1. October 16, 2014, Police arrested a St. Louis city tow lot shift foreman for thefts from lot
2. July 11, 2014, the recorder of deeds resigned because of violations of state nepotism laws and allegedly misspent $130,000 between 2010 and 2014. However, after being re-elected after her resignation, she is now collecting both a salary and retirement from the city.
3. June 26, 2014, the mayor openly conspired with a municipal judge and the recorder of deeds to violate the state’s constitution to challenge same-sex restrictions on marriage. The mayor held press conferences and published information online announcing his abusive and illegal use of authority*.
4. May 15, 2014, James Wahl, a St. Louis Municipal judge was profiled as a flagrant violator of the laws he sits in judgment, on Inside Edition, a national television show.
5. Independent, The release of the video was originally delayed by St Louis Mayor Francis Slay.
   
   Dash Cam Beating: Police Officer Turned Off Camera
   
   
6. March 21, 2014, Jury awards $7.5 million to ex-St. Louis officer who claimed harassment, retaliation.
7. October 16, 2013, five parking attendants, employed by the St. Louis Treasurer were accused of stealing over $500 each in city parking revenue.
8. September 17, 2013, a “ghost employee” of the St. Louis Treasurer was convicted of stealing.
9. September 9, 2013, The chief park ranger and assistant forestry directory admitted stealing almost a half-million dollars.
10. February 22, 2013, a former building inspector was sentenced to jail for accepting bribes.
11. January 23, 2013, a St.Louis Municipal Judge’ working hours were reduced by two-thirds after her husband announced his candidacy against Mayor Slay.
12. December 13, 2012, two people connected with a city vendor were sentenced for stealing close to a quarter of a million dollarsfrom St. Louis parking meter operations
13. July 19, 2012, a municipal court clerk was sentenced for forging judicial orders.
14. April 25, 2012, a former municipal court clerk was convicted of altering court records.
15. March 15, 2012, the municipal court administrator hired her brother to perform financial services but did not lose her job because of nepotism violations.
16. March 12, 2012, municipal judge James Wahl, along with the municipal court administrator, chief park ranger, and the city counselor’s office participated in the questionable handling of a traffic ticket issued to the mayor’s son.
17. February 25, 2012, a St. Louis municipal judge resigned while being investigated by the Missouri Supreme Court’s Commission on Retirement, Removal, and Discipline.

[/QUOTE

Only ONE of seventeen scandals had anything to do with the police department. Why do you lead off with “Let us recall how fine the St Louis Police Department has conducted its self” and then list sixtenn crimes committed by parking meter attendants and crooked judges?

 

[GordianKnot]

This story is unbelievable.

JMO
It sounds to me all the officers that were present need to be immediately fired. They had no business being there playing with loaded weapons of any kind. Wow.

Most know that revolvers have cylinders that spin and IMO they are usually safer than semi-automatics because with semi-autos a common mistake is to forget about the "one in the chamber". With semi-autos, you can have a totally empty clip and still have one in the chamber and it can fire that one in the chamber.

With a revolver, you usually can see the edge of the cylinders and normally you either have all cylinders empty or all full. You can usually see the end of the shells in the cylinders except for the cylinder that lines up with the chamber. But with that one if you the hammer back which rotates the cylinder then the one lined up will spin away from the chamber.

Depending on if it was a double action or single action revolver will depend on if you can just squeeze the trigger to rotate the cylinder or if you have to the hammer back to rotate the cylinder.

But the bottom line is if they were pulling the trigger and it was not firing then it sounds like they were fooling around with a partially loaded weapon and that is a huge no-no that should get everyone present fired.

If one officer was not part of it he should have immediately called 911 to report the others as soon as he started to see them playing with guns.

This incident sounds like children playing with guns that they found from their parents or something. Totally insane.

At no time should there have only been 1 or 2 bullets in the cylinder and at no time should anyone be pointing a weapon at anyone else unless you intend to kill that person. Which they did of course. Loaded or not, gun safety 101 is to never point a gun at something you do not intend to shoot.

What scares me the most is to know there were paid officers fooling around with guns like this. Lets hope this is very much the exception and there are not others in the departments like them.

BBMFF:

I completely agree that it sounds unbelievable.

The reason it sounds unbelievable is because it's not true.

JMO.

 

[HerculeHolmes]

As we know, City Prosecutors, Judges and City Councils are [READ: can be] complicit in official cover-ups and investigations. Generally persons involved in these types of operations understand this goes beyond the scope of the Police Department. These examples are used to illustrate the capacity, encouragement even, of the local government's blatant disregard for accountability. A culture of dishonesty and misconduct appears to be alive and well within the immediate municipality. Police Chief has stressed transparency even though the official narrative continues to evolve.

St. Louis has had a particularly dismal record within the last decade.

If you'd like me to get more specific about the SLPD I'd be happy to start citing ACLU violations related to Ferguson.