MO - Off-duty officer (Katlyn Alix) shot dead by on-duty officer (Nathaniel Hendren), Jan 2019

[GordianKnot]

Feb 8, 2019

ST. LOUIS • After publicly feuding over officer-involved shooting investigations and an “exclusion list” of police officers not allowed to present cases to prosecutors, Circuit Attorney Kimberly M. Gardner announced on Friday new procedures for both as well as “progress” in collaboration and cooperation.

“Public Safety Director Jimmie Edwards, Police Chief John Hayden and I are committed to improving procedures on how our offices operate together,” Gardner said in a statement. “As a result, we have made significant progress in strengthening our ability to collaborate and cooperate,” it continues, in part.

Gardner’s office blacklisted 28 officers in 2018, including them on a list that bans them from bringing cases to her office for charges. The St. Louis Police Officers Association complained that officers were not told why their names were included, and said their inclusion on the list damaged their reputations and their ability to do their jobs. The union also asserted that some officers were on the list because they had asserted their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in cases where Gardner’s office was simultaneously reviewing an officer’s conduct in a police shooting and pursuing charges against the person shot.


Gardner’s statement says that when her office has concerns about officers, they will report those officers to police Internal Affairs investigators. Edwards will review the investigation’s conclusions and share those findings with Gardner so she can decide whether to remove the officer’s name from the list, the statement says.

The statement also says that investigations of officer-involved shootings by both Gardner’s office and the police Force Investigation Unit will have priority, presumably over internal affairs investigations of those shootings.
St. Louis prosecutor announces changes in investigations of police shootings and 'exclusion list' officers

ETA: You can't make this stuff up-- coming from the top! And now I understand why not the RRR story...

Unreal.

What is going ON there?

 

[GordianKnot]

Why would she be at HIS apartment if she rebuffed him? Doesn't make sense to me.

There were 3 of them in that apartment that night.

Let's not forget the partner, he of the scant beer sippage (not a word) and gun safety awareness.

We don't know what we don't know, and we'll probably never know.

JMO.

 

[flute4peace]

Feb 8, 2019

ST. LOUIS • After publicly feuding over officer-involved shooting investigations and an “exclusion list” of police officers not allowed to present cases to prosecutors, Circuit Attorney Kimberly M. Gardner announced on Friday new procedures for both as well as “progress” in collaboration and cooperation.

“Public Safety Director Jimmie Edwards, Police Chief John Hayden and I are committed to improving procedures on how our offices operate together,” Gardner said in a statement. “As a result, we have made significant progress in strengthening our ability to collaborate and cooperate,” it continues, in part.

Gardner’s office blacklisted 28 officers in 2018, including them on a list that bans them from bringing cases to her office for charges. The St. Louis Police Officers Association complained that officers were not told why their names were included, and said their inclusion on the list damaged their reputations and their ability to do their jobs. The union also asserted that some officers were on the list because they had asserted their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in cases where Gardner’s office was simultaneously reviewing an officer’s conduct in a police shooting and pursuing charges against the person shot.


Gardner’s statement says that when her office has concerns about officers, they will report those officers to police Internal Affairs investigators. Edwards will review the investigation’s conclusions and share those findings with Gardner so she can decide whether to remove the officer’s name from the list, the statement says.

The statement also says that investigations of officer-involved shootings by both Gardner’s office and the police Force Investigation Unit will have priority, presumably over internal affairs investigations of those shootings.
St. Louis prosecutor announces changes in investigations of police shootings and 'exclusion list' officers

ETA: You can't make this stuff up-- coming from the top! And now I understand why not the RRR story...

How common is this? Do other cities have these “lists”? It sounds ridiculous to me but maybe it’s SOO and we just never hear about it?

 

[Falcon500]

If I could ask this question, is it possible that the investigation can determine the exact angle and line the bullet drove before hitting the officer? To clarify, can it be determined that the bullet left the gun at XXXX inches from the ground and the gun was pointed directly towards it's intended target? Trying my best to come up with a scenario that would fit the "RRR" excuse.

Ok, two questions. Is it possible to tell if the gun had recently been fired more than once recently? By that I mean, does the bullet have to pass to tell if it had been "clicked" and no bullet left the gun.

It’s possible to determine the path of a bullet as it passes through the body especially in “through and through” wounds where the bullet exits on the opposite side of the body. It would be hard to say how many inches off the ground the gun was when it was fired.

#2. It wouldn’t be possible to determine how many times a revolver was “dry fired” (trigger pulled striking nothing). It would be possible to see if the trigger was pulled, firing pin hit a defective bullet, and nothing happened.

 

[Psychofcrime]

Feb 8, 2019

ST. LOUIS • After publicly feuding over officer-involved shooting investigations and an “exclusion list” of police officers not allowed to present cases to prosecutors, Circuit Attorney Kimberly M. Gardner announced on Friday new procedures for both as well as “progress” in collaboration and cooperation.

“Public Safety Director Jimmie Edwards, Police Chief John Hayden and I are committed to improving procedures on how our offices operate together,” Gardner said in a statement. “As a result, we have made significant progress in strengthening our ability to collaborate and cooperate,” it continues, in part.

Gardner’s office blacklisted 28 officers in 2018, including them on a list that bans them from bringing cases to her office for charges. The St. Louis Police Officers Association complained that officers were not told why their names were included, and said their inclusion on the list damaged their reputations and their ability to do their jobs. The union also asserted that some officers were on the list because they had asserted their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in cases where Gardner’s office was simultaneously reviewing an officer’s conduct in a police shooting and pursuing charges against the person shot.


Gardner’s statement says that when her office has concerns about officers, they will report those officers to police Internal Affairs investigators. Edwards will review the investigation’s conclusions and share those findings with Gardner so she can decide whether to remove the officer’s name from the list, the statement says.

The statement also says that investigations of officer-involved shootings by both Gardner’s office and the police Force Investigation Unit will have priority, presumably over internal affairs investigations of those shootings.
St. Louis prosecutor announces changes in investigations of police shootings and 'exclusion list' officers

ETA: You can't make this stuff up-- coming from the top! And now I understand why not the RRR story...

Welcome to the Hot Mess of politics in St. Louis. The CA has had it in for the police department since elected. The police department has had a reputation for internal problems for several years. The two NEED to work together for the tax payers. This is just the beginning IMO. I am hopeful that this will come to a positive solution.

IMO I think we WILL get the real story eventually. Between the CA and SR ( the bulldog attorney for KA's family) someone will get to the bottom of this mess. Hopefully it won't be kept confidential in some legal agreement.

Where did the info about them stopping for sandwiches come from? I have not read that in any MSM but could have missed it. If it came from Daily Mail, I will take it with a grain of salt.

 

[SandyQLS]

Feb 8, 2019

...[CA] Gardner’s office blacklisted 28 officers in 2018, including them on a list that bans them from bringing cases to her office for charges. ...

St. Louis prosecutor announces changes in investigations of police shootings and 'exclusion list' officers

ETA: You can't make this stuff up-- coming from the top! And now I understand why not the RRR story...

RSBM...length^

I have never heard of such of poor relationship between the main PD and the prosecutor's office. Ridiculous. "Public servants" and "elected officials."

 

[mickey2942]

RSBM...length^

I have never heard of such of poor relationship between the main PD and the prosecutor's office. Ridiculous. "Public servants" and "elected officials."

It is a problem. It seems like public service is a joke. And words like honor and integrity are meaningless.

 

[Psychofcrime]

Here is a very lengthy article written last September. If you have time to read it, it will give you a sense of the politics surrounding the office of the St. Louis Circuit Attorney. It explains a lot and discusses the "list" and the ramifications of it. Not a pretty picture.



Elected as a Progressive Reformer, Kim Gardner's First 21 Months Have Featured Chaos and Conflict

A week later, as the city prepares to head into the Labor Day weekend, the Post-Dispatch publishes a bombshell: Gardner has just given police a list of 28 officers whom she did not trust to put on the stand. Her prosecutors would not accept new cases that relied primarily on anyone on the "exclusion list," and they would review existing cases for "viability," according to the leaked emails.

And just like that, chaos returns. Apparently unprepared for the news to leak, Gardner is left on the defensive, reacting to police outrage about victimized officers instead of highlighting what is potentially a very big problem: Prosecutors suspect St. Louis has more than two dozen cops and former cops who are fundamentally crooked.

The following days are filled with a hastily prepared statement and follow-up statements. By the end, no one seems particularly sure what is going on.

 

[mickey2942]

^^^This. If they can't trust officers to actually be at work, how can anything that they say under oath be credible?

 

[GordianKnot]

Here is a very lengthy article written last September. If you have time to read it, it will give you a sense of the politics surrounding the office of the St. Louis Circuit Attorney. It explains a lot and discusses the "list" and the ramifications of it. Not a pretty picture.



Elected as a Progressive Reformer, Kim Gardner's First 21 Months Have Featured Chaos and Conflict

A week later, as the city prepares to head into the Labor Day weekend, the Post-Dispatch publishes a bombshell: Gardner has just given police a list of 28 officers whom she did not trust to put on the stand. Her prosecutors would not accept new cases that relied primarily on anyone on the "exclusion list," and they would review existing cases for "viability," according to the leaked emails.

And just like that, chaos returns. Apparently unprepared for the news to leak, Gardner is left on the defensive, reacting to police outrage about victimized officers instead of highlighting what is potentially a very big problem: Prosecutors suspect St. Louis has more than two dozen cops and former cops who are fundamentally crooked.

The following days are filled with a hastily prepared statement and follow-up statements. By the end, no one seems particularly sure what is going on.

Really interesting, detailed and well-written article, thanks for linking, Psych!

It sounds like the circuit attorney's office has major trust and coordination issues, both internally and with the PD.

This ain't pretty. Doesn't bode well for this particular investigation.

 

[Willow Knight]

Totally agree! I hadn't heard about the sandwich run which narrows the time line even more, like you said.
What happened in those 5 to 10 minutes?

Really, in 5-10 minutes? I just can't. And certainly they know how many subs were picked up? Were any of the sandwiches eaten? Half eaten? This timeline is so off.

 

[GordianKnot]

Really, in 5-10 minutes? I just can't. And certainly they know how many subs were picked up? Were any of the sandwiches eaten? Half eaten? This timeline is so off.

Timeline is really problematic.

I can't imagine they would have had time to tuck into footlong BMTs in that short window.

I can't really figure out what they would have had time to do that would have escalated to the point of KA taking a bullet to the chest so quickly. It's mystifying.

 

[Willow Knight]

And why would she have recently transferred to crappy District #2 if she wanted distance from him. I do believe these 3 were close friends that reportedly spent a lot of hours together both on and off the clock. I believe NH had a new revolver he was showing off and he shot her. But why the RRR story?

Ok, you just gave me an opinion of how/why the RRR story. In your opinion, a possible scenario could be he was showing off and shot her. Could have possibly said something such as, how about a little RRR and then went directly into action. Never really was the 'game' played, just the statement made? IDK Driving me nuts.

 

[nightowl1975]

Here is a very lengthy article written last September. If you have time to read it, it will give you a sense of the politics surrounding the office of the St. Louis Circuit Attorney. It explains a lot and discusses the "list" and the ramifications of it. Not a pretty picture.



Elected as a Progressive Reformer, Kim Gardner's First 21 Months Have Featured Chaos and Conflict

A week later, as the city prepares to head into the Labor Day weekend, the Post-Dispatch publishes a bombshell: Gardner has just given police a list of 28 officers whom she did not trust to put on the stand. Her prosecutors would not accept new cases that relied primarily on anyone on the "exclusion list," and they would review existing cases for "viability," according to the leaked emails.

And just like that, chaos returns. Apparently unprepared for the news to leak, Gardner is left on the defensive, reacting to police outrage about victimized officers instead of highlighting what is potentially a very big problem: Prosecutors suspect St. Louis has more than two dozen cops and former cops who are fundamentally crooked.

The following days are filled with a hastily prepared statement and follow-up statements. By the end, no one seems particularly sure what is going on.

After the whole thing with the blood draw at the time of the incident, I can’t say I blame the prosecutor for having serious concerns with this police department. They’re blatantly willing to obstruct justice in an effort to protect fellow officers. There’s really no other reasonable explanation for the lack of blood draw fiasco in this case.

 

[Betty P]

Unreal.

What is going ON there?

JMO

The prosecutor is trying to deal with a police department that has some serious problems with corruption. She set up a system to make sure cases are investigated without subjecting her own office and cases they're working on to tainted information and evidence. It's sort of like a firewall. Nothing worse for a prosecutor to take a case to court only to find the evidence is tainted, the suspect falsely accused or the officer has done something dishonest.

This was done before NH killed Officer Alix. Now she's trying to negotiate a way to move forward with NH's investigation and prosecution as expeditiously as possible while still keeping that firewall in place. She's laying down the best ground rules she can to keep the process transparent and honest and get all the information she needs about the shooting.

It's tough, I don't envy her at all. I don't blame her for wanting to keep the police department at arm's length on this in case something blows up later.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

^^^This. If they can't trust officers to actually be at work, how can anything that they say under oath be credible?

Bingo. Of course this doesn't apply to the whole department, but apparently the circuit court has had a problem in the past with some officers lying or misrepresenting evidence, etc. Those officers are still on the police force.

 

[GordianKnot]

JMO

The prosecutor is trying to deal with a police department that has some serious problems with corruption. She set up a system to make sure cases are investigated without subjecting her own office and cases they're working on to tainted information and evidence. It's sort of like a firewall. Nothing worse for a prosecutor to take a case to court only to find the evidence is tainted, the suspect falsely accused or the officer has done something dishonest.

This was done before NH killed Officer Alix. Now she's trying to negotiate a way to move forward with NH's investigation and prosecution as expeditiously as possible while still keeping that firewall in place. She's laying down the best ground rules she can to keep the process transparent and honest and get all the information she needs about the shooting.

It's tough, I don't envy her at all. I don't blame her for wanting to keep the police department at arm's length on this in case something blows up later.

JMO

She's in an unenviable position, without question.

The degree of antipathy between the prosecutor and the police department is awful.

I understand her trying to keep them at a remove from the investigation, but when you ask the agency who typically puts up the crime tape to stay outside of it, it's going to be hard to get them to comply.

It sure sounds like the SLPD needs a deep clean...it also sounds like that's not likely to happen.

Corruption sucks.

JMO.

 

[Betty P]

She's in an unenviable position, without question.

The degree of antipathy between the prosecutor and the police department is awful.

I understand her trying to keep them at a remove from the investigation, but when you ask the agency who typically puts up the crime tape to stay outside of it, it's going to be hard to get them to comply.

It sure sounds like the SLPD needs a deep clean...it also sounds like that's not likely to happen.

Corruption sucks.

JMO.

I'm not sure she's telling them not to investigate crimes. Maybe she's just saying that if a case needs to be prosecuted, they have to assign an officer who can be trusted to be the one to show up in court. JMO

 

[mickey2942]

I'm not sure she's telling them not to investigate crimes. Maybe she's just saying that if a case needs to be prosecuted, they have to assign an officer who can be trusted to be the one to show up in court. JMO

I think that it goes further than that. If an officer of the court is found to be untruthful while under oath in one case, by the defense, that is like a Domino effect. Every single defense attorney can use that ONE instance where the officer was untruthful to derail the next case, and another one...once an officer is found to have committed perjury, he/she is basically useless to the prosecution for any other testimony in other cases.

 

[ilovematt]

Feb 8, 2019

ST. LOUIS • After publicly feuding over officer-involved shooting investigations and an “exclusion list” of police officers not allowed to present cases to prosecutors, Circuit Attorney Kimberly M. Gardner announced on Friday new procedures for both as well as “progress” in collaboration and cooperation.

“Public Safety Director Jimmie Edwards, Police Chief John Hayden and I are committed to improving procedures on how our offices operate together,” Gardner said in a statement. “As a result, we have made significant progress in strengthening our ability to collaborate and cooperate,” it continues, in part.

Gardner’s office blacklisted 28 officers in 2018, including them on a list that bans them from bringing cases to her office for charges. The St. Louis Police Officers Association complained that officers were not told why their names were included, and said their inclusion on the list damaged their reputations and their ability to do their jobs. The union also asserted that some officers were on the list because they had asserted their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination in cases where Gardner’s office was simultaneously reviewing an officer’s conduct in a police shooting and pursuing charges against the person shot.


Gardner’s statement says that when her office has concerns about officers, they will report those officers to police Internal Affairs investigators. Edwards will review the investigation’s conclusions and share those findings with Gardner so she can decide whether to remove the officer’s name from the list, the statement says.

The statement also says that investigations of officer-involved shootings by both Gardner’s office and the police Force Investigation Unit will have priority, presumably over internal affairs investigations of those shootings.
St. Louis prosecutor announces changes in investigations of police shootings and 'exclusion list' officers

ETA: You can't make this stuff up-- coming from the top! And now I understand why not the RRR story...

I’m so confused. So 28 officers who have not been let go but are still active on their beats have an inability to submit a case for prosecution? So what do they do all day, just like traffic tickets? Or are there other offices they could prosecute a cases through and only banned from Linda’s (clearly well ran office)?