MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #2

[jjenny]

FWIW, the woman reported being held in a crawl space -- to me that's not the same as a basement.

(emphasis mine)

Also on Monday, KCTV5 obtained another search warrant saying a girl, now a woman who came forward after hearing the initial reports of the Mohler's being charged, reported being held captive in a crawl space in Moher Sr.'s house for years. The woman reported she was sexually abused by all five Mohler men and got pregnant twice and one of babies was buried in the basement and then the basement was paved over.

http://www.kctv5.com/news/21636854/detail.html

When I think of other cases, where kids were held in basements for years & no one noticed, this does seem possible...they haven't released details of how she was confined in a crawlspace (gagged & bound, in a box, or whatever other sadistic methods are used to confine).

LE & DA keeps moving forward, so it seems they must believe they have enough evidence to support their charges...I don't think we're getting many details....and undecided how much I really want to know...this is sickening.

Basement, crawlspace, what's the difference? And what, she got out or they let her go, and she didn't tell anyone for years? She was supposedly held for years, did her relatives not notice she went missing and then showed up again?

 

[raeann]

For what purpose would someone ask three little girls to kill a grown and pretty large man?
This was supposedly years ago so the girls would be little.
How would that be physically possible, anything else aside?

I agree, it makes no sense to me at all, but then neither does any part of this whole thing.

jmoo

 

[Texas Mist]

Basement, crawlspace, what's the difference? And what, she got out or they let her go, and she didn't tell anyone for years? She was supposedly held for years, did her relatives not notice she went missing and then showed up again?

basement: the part of a building that is wholly or partly below ground level

crawlspace: a shallow unfinished space beneath the first floor or under the roof of a building especially for access to plumbing or wiring

I think of John Wayne Gacy when I hear crawlspace -- it's just that - room to crawl to work on plumbing & wiring...to me a basement is a room below ground.

Then there's 'the perfect victim'-- Colleen Stan -- she was held captive for years -- went to visit her family & told no one about her torturer & her box of horrors.

This latest woman could have been a captured runaway...we just don't have details enough to sort this out.

What we have heard tho is not anything that hasn't previously been documented to be true stories of others, in terms of captivity, impregnating, etc.

It's a mess all the way around.

 

[Linda7NJ]

For what purpose would someone ask three little girls to kill a grown and pretty large man?
This was supposedly years ago so the girls would be little.
How would that be physically possible, anything else aside?

They didn't do it alone. Being stabbed by a grown man in the chest is enough.

I don't find the story unbelievable at all. These men seemed to ramp up very common tactics used. Usually, animals are tortured and or killed, sometimes the child is forced to witness, and sometimes they are made to participate. It's to instill terror and bind victims to the perp and keep their mouths shut. Having children participate makes them equally as guilty....at least that's what the perps hope hope to instill in their victims little minds. Perp's need/want compliant victims that never tell.

The part about the "evil twin" is also very common.

 

[Missizzy]

Whoah--I wasn't ready for this but here goes. As I've said before, it's almost like these monsters used a "playbook". They weren't the first to come up with these ideas, sadly. This is from (out of Canada):

http://www.ritualabusetorture.org/research.htm

1. Ritual abuse cults/groups were both intergenerational and extra-familial

2. Child victims are forced into a group bonding process often with the co-operation of their family and forced to take vows and oaths of secrecy

3. Programming triggers are indoctrinated into survivors when they are children

4. Victims are subjected to mind-control programming using hypnosis, mind-altering drugging, and the implantation of trigger messages to prevent them from disclosing their ritual abuse ordeals

5. Torture—long-term and repeated—pain, deprivation, death threats, harassment, and intimidation is used on young victims

6. Victims are forced to violate others

7. Survivors spoke of the profits ritual abuse torturers earned from filming or videotaping the violence, from the forced prostitution of victims, and from drug trafficking

8. Active cult members continue to threaten and harm adult survivors in a multitude of ways in order to force them to remain silent, most are threatened with death should they disclose their ritual abuse, and many have seen those who threaten them murder others thus their fears are justified

9. Perpetrators engage in organized efforts to discount the survivors disclosure of their ritual abuse-torture ordeals

10. All survivors told of extreme difficulties in finding any useful therapeutic help

11. Ignorance of medical staff often put some survivors at risk of self injury

12. Helpers of survivors are also targets of organized efforts by perpetrators needing to discount and discredit the helper’s work with survivors of ritual abuse. Helpers must also deal with discreditation, denial, and disbelief from peers and the medical community, and may helpers reluctantly stop working with survivors because of these acts of harassment and oppression, and/or because of burnout and/or impossible practice conditions

 

[Missizzy]

Linda--Did I miss something? What is this about the "evil twin"? Been down that path before up here.

 

[IWannaKnow]

For what purpose would someone ask three little girls to kill a grown and pretty large man?
This was supposedly years ago so the girls would be little.
How would that be physically possible, anything else aside?

Blackmail and control. Also the ability to say "It wasn't me"

 

[lajr56]

from the 'buried baby' link ( http://www.kctv5.com/news/21633549/detail.html)

<snip>

A radar showed that a box-like object was buried underneath the basement floor. The home is no longer owned by Burrell E. Mohler Sr.

If there's a baby in that box, these men are toast.

The poor kids -- having to grow up like this in that house of horrors! Knowing there's no safe place because all the men in the family are involved....explains to me why they didn't tell -- especially after the Indy man was killed. <shudder>

IMO, these stories do not sound like they are fabricated - I don't know that Steven King could make this stuff up.

There have been so many links posted, but I am sure that in one of them there was a picture of someone carrying a small box during the tearing up of the farm by LE. Does anyone else remember seeing that?

 

[newcomer]

I've been following this thread for awhile now and this is my first post. I know it's been said before, but where was the mother of these children? Is the press not reporting on her for privacy issues? Also, did the other bros have children too? Wouldn't one think that if they did, they too would be abused? If not, were jr's kids targeted only because maybe their mother was out of the picture and/or the kids were more vulnerable than their cousins (if any). This is one of the most bizarre cases ever. And there are so many unanswered questions. As someone said before, there can be no good outcome in this situation whether it's true or not.

Sure would love to see a family tree with marriages & births. Wonder if that would be possible.

 

[Texas Mist]

Linda--Did I miss something? What is this about the "evil twin"? Been down that path before up here.

MissIzzy - here's the reference to the evil/bad twin

<snip>

The fresh charges are against Burrell E. Mohler Jr., 53, Jared Mohler, 48, Roland Mohler, 47, and David Mohler, 52, and their 77-year-old father. All five remain jailed in Lexington, Mo.

The latest accuser, now 29 and identified only as E.M.S., told investigators of several instances when she was abused. She said that when she was 6, David Mohler raped her in a chicken coop. She also said that when she was 7, she and her sister were in bed when Burrell Mohler Jr. entered the room. When E.M.S. called him by name, he allegedly told them he wasn’t that person but “the bad twin,” after which both sisters were raped.

E.M.S. said that on another occasion, Jared Mohler put her on his lap. When Burrell Mohler Sr. passed the open door, he looked inside and allegedly said, “That’s my boy.”

Jared Mohler then raped E.M.S., court documents stated. She said similar abuse continued until she was around 9.


http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/1574307.html

 

[IWannaKnow]

Basement, crawlspace, what's the difference? And what, she got out or they let her go, and she didn't tell anyone for years? She was supposedly held for years, did her relatives not notice she went missing and then showed up again?

Basement = open space = easy to see

crawlspace = behind walls = not easy to see

Without saying too much, this case is very close to what I suspect went on in my family. There was a hidden crawl space behind the closet in the master bedroom that connected that room to the closet of the other bedroom. That is a fact - I saw it with my own eyes - and the person who showed to to me swore my grandmother knew nothing about it. FWIW.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I've been following this thread for awhile now and this is my first post. I know it's been said before, but where was the mother of these children? Is the press not reporting on her for privacy issues? Also, did the other bros have children too? Wouldn't one think that if they did, they too would be abused? If not, were jr's kids targeted only because maybe their mother was out of the picture and/or the kids were more vulnerable than their cousins (if any). This is one of the most bizarre cases ever. And there are so many unanswered questions. As someone said before, there can be no good outcome in this situation whether it's true or not.

Sure would love to see a family tree with marriages & births. Wonder if that would be possible.

:Welcome-12-june: newcomer!

 

[Texas Mist]

I've been following this thread for awhile now and this is my first post. I know it's been said before, but where was the mother of these children? Is the press not reporting on her for privacy issues? Also, did the other bros have children too? Wouldn't one think that if they did, they too would be abused? If not, were jr's kids targeted only because maybe their mother was out of the picture and/or the kids were more vulnerable than their cousins (if any). This is one of the most bizarre cases ever. And there are so many unanswered questions. As someone said before, there can be no good outcome in this situation whether it's true or not.

Sure would love to see a family tree with marriages & births. Wonder if that would be possible.

welcome newcomer!!

We're all waiting to hear what the mothers have to say, too...some of these men have been married & divorced (multiple times) so there's several "women/mothers" we might have expected to hear from...who knows if they also had the living daylights scared out of them - it's not uncommon for incestuous abusers to abuse adult women....JMO -don't know this for a fact in this case.

Guess we'll wait & see what unfolds in the coming weeks & months.

In the first thread there's a post to a genealogy link -- has the grown men & their wives, but not the kids (which is a good thing).

 

[zoomom]

This is just getting more and more bizarre. The daughters are saying they were forced to kill a man? Another woman comes forward and says she was kept for years in the crawl space?
Is this for real?

http://www.kctv5.com/news/21636854/detail.html

WHAT ThE F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[zoomom]

ok....all caught up. Revolting. But believable. JMO

 

[Missizzy]

Welcome, Newcomer. Glad you're on board. If you will go back to the first page of the first (now closed) thread, Believe09 supplied us with a "family tree". Sadly, there is not much info about the four brothers who are arrested. There's more info about Darrel. That's where I gleaned a lot of info I used for research this weekend. That's also where I found the link to JM, Darrel's son. You might want to take a look.

And, lajr56, I seem to remember the same photo. I just spent several minutes and looked but I can't find it. I remember there being a set of still photos, taken from above, which possibly showed someone carrying a box. Does anyone else remember?

However, the box in question, sounds as if it's buried under concrete. Very confusing. I'm positive that LE has gobs more info than they are releasing. It's about time to get out the dry erase board.

Thanks, Texas Mist, for the link about the "twin". Real tricky, huh? Gross, gross, gross. I'm just blown away by how closely all this new info follows the roadmap provided by the advocacy groups who work with victims of "ritual abuse". Is it possible that pedophiles figure out all these tactics on their own or do they share ideas? Is it passed down within the family? I am alternately intrigued and thoroughly disgusted.

 

[luvbeaches]

This is such a sad and bizarre story. I personally think there's just too many people coming forward for this not to be true, but time will tell. As for the crawl space or basement, sometimes they mean the same thing. My grandparents (and I live in the KC area), had what they referred to as a crawl space and a basement. They used both of these descriptions when talking about the space that was under their house. Part of it was very shallow and hard to get to, and part of it was almost like a regular basement. I've seen what people refer to as a crawl space and this area is under the house, but there's not actually room enough to stand up.

 

[tgrlaw]

Whoah--I wasn't ready for this but here goes. As I've said before, it's almost like these monsters used a "playbook". They weren't the first to come up with these ideas, sadly. This is from (out of Canada):

http://www.ritualabusetorture.org/research.htm

1. Ritual abuse cults/groups were both intergenerational and extra-familial

2. Child victims are forced into a group bonding process often with the co-operation of their family and forced to take vows and oaths of secrecy

3. Programming triggers are indoctrinated into survivors when they are children

4. Victims are subjected to mind-control programming using hypnosis, mind-altering drugging, and the implantation of trigger messages to prevent them from disclosing their ritual abuse ordeals

5. Torture—long-term and repeated—pain, deprivation, death threats, harassment, and intimidation is used on young victims

6. Victims are forced to violate others

7. Survivors spoke of the profits ritual abuse torturers earned from filming or videotaping the violence, from the forced prostitution of victims, and from drug trafficking

8. Active cult members continue to threaten and harm adult survivors in a multitude of ways in order to force them to remain silent, most are threatened with death should they disclose their ritual abuse, and many have seen those who threaten them murder others thus their fears are justified

9. Perpetrators engage in organized efforts to discount the survivors disclosure of their ritual abuse-torture ordeals

10. All survivors told of extreme difficulties in finding any useful therapeutic help

11. Ignorance of medical staff often put some survivors at risk of self injury

12. Helpers of survivors are also targets of organized efforts by perpetrators needing to discount and discredit the helper’s work with survivors of ritual abuse. Helpers must also deal with discreditation, denial, and disbelief from peers and the medical community, and may helpers reluctantly stop working with survivors because of these acts of harassment and oppression, and/or because of burnout and/or impossible practice conditions

This also resembles a "gang" mentality. To become part of the group you have to pass an initiation, which coincidentally gives everyone else some leverage against telling. Sad. That ritual abuse site is a goldmine. Seems very academically sound and is obviously relevant to the craziness going on lately. I just wish the taboo of all this could go away so regular folks would understand what to look for with regard to people who want to hurt children. I know its not wise to generalize, but if something doesn't look right it, there is a strong possiblility it isn't.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Linda--Did I miss something? What is this about the "evil twin"? Been down that path before up here.

It's in one of the articles linked here.

 

[Texas Mist]

MissIzzy & lajr56 -- I recall seeing the box also...within the first few days, maybe the first day they started digging? when I have time I'll see if I can find it.

MissIzzy -- I think there are similarities between these horrific crimes because the evil in man has been going on so long....some of it is more suredly learned, but I think some of it is just instinctually born out of evil thoughts.

Thanks luvbeaches for sharing your knowledge of basements & crawlspaces....basements in TX are few & far between...I can't think of one person in my family who's ever had a basement....but I've seen them on tv.