MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #3

[Missizzy]

This is from the Randy Leach site. This would sound absolutely crazy if we didn't have the current disclosures:

"An informant in Bonner Springs told Lee Orr, a detective from the Kansas City Police Department who specialized in cult crime, that an associate was involved in Satan worship and the informant was one of the intended’s victims for some kind of sacrifice. She had escaped and called the police. Detective Orr stated that his informant had given him a book with information about a woman’s associates, and that she had also told him the people around Bonner Springs knew something about the Randy Leach case. Leach had been sacrificed, cut up, put in burlap bags and put in the river somewhere near Cedar Creek in Desoto, Kansas. Some of the people involved, according to Orr, were from Bonner Springs, Edwardsville, and Kansas City, Kansas. Orr said that some of the information he had developed involved Satanic worship, and some of the information Leavenworth County Sheriff’s Department developed indicated the same."

and another entry:

"After doing some checking [via operator], it was found that the subject called from the New Town Square."

Where exactly is New Town Square and where is Independence Center (where the Mohler girls say they helped kidnap the man)? I know that, over time, the names of malls of shopping centers change. Any locals?

 

[Texas Mist]

I would just call around and ask. If you'd like I can do it in the AM

thanks, Linda for being so brave!!

 

[Missizzy]

OK, De Soto, KS is 41 miles from Independence, MO. Can we trust that this is correct about the polygraph? Remember what the girls said about being encouraged to stab the man's face?

Shoot, you'd have to drive right through Lenexa, KS, home of MC (age 63), the Mohlers' cousin, who came to the first hearing. De Soto is 15 miles from Lenexa, KS and Independence is another 28 miles. I highly suggest that everybody mapquest this to see the close proximity.

http://www.randyleach.com/

This is from the "Theories" section:

"A young man from Edwardsville, Kansas stated that the first part of July, he, two white males, a white female, early 20's, and a red headed girl (white female, early 20's) went to a cave [the Loring Drive, National Cold Storage, Inc. cave site, north of Desoto] about a 5–10 minute walk east of the Lenape Cemetery [also north of Desoto]. When they got to the cave, they went down a 2–3 foot hole partially obscured by a tree, then into the cave. The young man stated that inside the cave was the body of a white male hanging from a rope that was attached to the ceiling of the cave. He stated that he could not tell who the white male was because it looked as though the face had been bashed in with a hammer. He said that when the face was pointed out to him, someone said, "See his face. How would you like to look like that? You’d have to have a closed casket, wouldn't you?" The young man stated that when he was taken to the cave to view the body, one of the subjects he was with was pushing him towards the hanging body. He also stated that there was a 'bad odor' and that it was all through the cave. He stated that when he was in the cave, he could hear a sound that sounded like running water as though there was a creek or stream running through the cave. The caves had not been thoroughly searched, and now the site where the body has hanging has been bulldozed over. When given a polygraph test, it was shown that the young man's accounts were truthful."

 

[wfgodot]

"After doing some checking [via operator], it was found that the subject called from the New Town Square."

Where exactly is New Town Square and where is Independence Center (where the Mohler girls say they helped kidnap the man)? I know that, over time, the names of malls of shopping centers change. Any locals?

Independence Center is a shopping mall, located at 2035 Independence Center DR; it opened in 1974, and even has its own Wikipedia entry ([ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_Center[/ame]) with a link to its offical website (http://www.simon.com/mall/?id=176).

Haven't found New Town Square---it sounds like it could be, or could have been, another, smaller mall or an apartment complex.

 

[Missizzy]

"On his first track meet of the 1988 season, he got a gold medal on April 5th for the shot put. He needed one foot and one inch to break the old record. It was a standing record because 1988 was the last year for Linwood High School."

Randy went missing on April 15th. By all accounts, he would have been a very big and strong boy. My guess is that he would have seemed very large and muscular to young girls. JMO

 

[Texas Mist]

OK, De Soto, KS is 41 miles from Independence, MO. Can we trust that this is correct about the polygraph? Remember what the girls said about being encouraged to stab the man's face?

Shoot, you'd have to drive right through Lenexa, KS, home of MC (age 63), the Mohlers' cousin, who came to the first hearing. De Soto is 15 miles from Lenexa, KS and Independence is another 28 miles. I highly suggest that everybody mapquest this to see the close proximity.

http://www.randyleach.com/

This is from the "Theories" section:

"A young man from Edwardsville, Kansas stated that the first part of July, he, two white males, a white female, early 20's, and a red headed girl (white female, early 20's) went to a cave [the Loring Drive, National Cold Storage, Inc. cave site, north of Desoto] about a 5–10 minute walk east of the Lenape Cemetery [also north of Desoto]. When they got to the cave, they went down a 2–3 foot hole partially obscured by a tree, then into the cave. The young man stated that inside the cave was the body of a white male hanging from a rope that was attached to the ceiling of the cave. He stated that he could not tell who the white male was because it looked as though the face had been bashed in with a hammer. He said that when the face was pointed out to him, someone said, "See his face. How would you like to look like that? You’d have to have a closed casket, wouldn't you?" The young man stated that when he was taken to the cave to view the body, one of the subjects he was with was pushing him towards the hanging body. He also stated that there was a 'bad odor' and that it was all through the cave. He stated that when he was in the cave, he could hear a sound that sounded like running water as though there was a creek or stream running through the cave. The caves had not been thoroughly searched, and now the site where the body has hanging has been bulldozed over. When given a polygraph test, it was shown that the young man's accounts were truthful."

I wonder if there was more than one murder in April?

The alleged victims told police they "had observed several murders," the documents say. ( http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/17/missouri.child.sexual.abuse/index.html )

Is there any significance to any April dates related to LDS / RLDS / Comm.of Christ ?

Just wondering why BMjr. would've picked April.

ETA: saw your post above, MissIzzy -- I read he was 6ft 3in....that would be *huge* to little girls.

 

[wfgodot]

"On his first track meet of the 1988 season, he got a gold medal on April 5th for the shot put. He needed one foot and one inch to break the old record. It was a standing record because 1988 was the last year for Linwood High School."

Randy went missing on April 15th. By all accounts, he would have been a very big and strong boy. My guess is that he would have seemed very large and muscular to young girls. JMO

I just can't see how one man and those girls could have gotten him in their vehicle in the first place as, like you point out, this was a big, strong kid; or, for that matter, how he'd wind up at a mall in Indepence---though if he were still disoriented he may have been taken/hitchhiked/driven there. But he'd have no reason to have gone to that mall, as Kansas City had more attractive malls, much closer---Oak Park was the big one on the nearer-to-him, Kansas side of the city, back in 1988, and there were others.

 

[mysteriew]

Pax--You have the book and have read it? What's your take on it? Any correlations? I ordered it off Ebay last night for something like $1.50 plus shipping. I think there were a few more copies. Newcomer, that might be faster than waiting for me to get it, read it and mail it on to you.

Oh, I so hope that no one NO ONE thinks that I am discounting or being disrespectful of an entire denomination of people. I am fully aware that there are crazies, quacks, and jerks everywhere. I completely accept the fact that there are most likely an overwhelming number of fine, caring, upstanding folks within the Community of Christ church and the RLDS church. I just think that the connection these men had within that "community" needs to be looked at closely. I'm fairly certain that LE is doing that.

Speaking of Lundgren, I found this:

I changed all names to initials but the link follows with the names.

Cult Followers All Former Rlds

"Lundgren's cult consisted of 29 men, women and children, most former RLDS from Independence, Missouri. At least one follower, DK, was recruited from Nauvoo, Illinois (another important Mormon historic site) after Lundgren participated in an RLDS sponsored archeological dig there in 1982, (Nauvoo Grapevine, Jan. 10, 1990 p. 1).

The group's adults, mostly college educated, included a nurse, a bank employee, a civil engineer, a travel agent and an accountant. RB, the civil engineer, was driven to work each day by a man matching Lundgren's description, who also pick up his paycheck each payday. RB, 26, came to work in the back of a pickup although no one occupied the truck's passenger seat, (Kansas City Star, p. 15A).

BD, who lived near the group, said that on warm nights the members could be seen drinking whiskey, gin and beer while using a good deal of foul language. BD also said Lundgren had his own collection of X-rated tapes that he would watch in his own tent.

BO, who was 11 when she lived on the commune in 1988, said that the children who misbehaved were subject to "sessions" with Lundgren in which, "He would hit you, and not with just his hands and stuff. He would use poles, too,""

http://www.watchman.org/lds/bodies.htm

This happened in the 50's and was near the M's? BMSr would have been about 4 years old at the time right? Children who are abused go one of two ways, they become advocates and extremely sensitive to others who might be being abused. Or they become abusers themselves. Many times they will escalate the type of abuse. The M's case is one of the most extreme cases I have seen. And it looks like Lundgren was another. What are the chances that BMSr was one of those children, or was associated with them in some way?

Can we find any info on BMSr's parents names? And maybe as you all read about the Lundgren case you could watch for his parents names?



Yesterday you all were talking about how some churches seem to be associated with this type of case. But I think it is two separate issues. One is the religion as an institution, where they don't report and believe they will handle any problems themselves. So it happens more often because there aren't any limits other than they will be "talked to." But the other issue is the "terrorism" thinking. An Islamist terrorist picks and chooses what part of the Koran to use and assigns his own interpetation to that part. A child abuser does it too.

My DD was about a year old and I was dating this guy when he made a comment that really bothered me. Enough that I broke up with him. I forget how it came up but he said that incest was in the Bible. And he told me how. There was something about his attitude and his thinking about it that really bothered me. So that was the end of him. I don't know whether or not he was an abuser, but I wasn't going to find out with my kid. But this is an example of how a child abuser can use the Bible to justify his own actions.

 

[Missizzy]

Snips from:

http://www.lawrence.com/news/2006/oct/02/bizzare_events_surrounding_case/?more_like_this

"Internal police reports about the Randy Leach case began showing up in the Leaches' mailbox. Harold Leach said he doesn't know the source of the documents but believes they came from sympathetic law officers convinced the investigation was being botched by authorities."

"A Topeka man who volunteered to help the Leaches search for their son was subsequently found shot to death along with his wife. Topeka police ruled it a murder-suicide."

"Leavenworth County officials refuse to launch an inquisition into the Leach case. The Journal-World decries the county's law enforcement in a lengthy editorial (May 10, 1990) listing reasons why an inquisition is justified, then concluding: "Something is fishy and officials have not told the complete story."

 

[Missizzy]

Mysteriew--I think you've got your dates confused. Jeffrey Lundgren was born in 1950 and killed the Avery family--all five of them--on April 17, 1989. He would have been just a few years older than Burrell Jr. who was born in 1956 IIRC.

I'm also wondering about the April significance as that is when the girls recalled the "murder". April 15, 1988 is the night that Randy Leach disappeared. Just a coincidence?

 

[Texas Mist]

This happened in the 50's and was near the M's? BMSr would have been about 4 years old at the time right? Children who are abused go one of two ways, they become advocates and extremely sensitive to others who might be being abused. Or they become abusers themselves. Many times they will escalate the type of abuse. The M's case is one of the most extreme cases I have seen. And it looks like Lundgren was another. What are the chances that BMSr was one of those children, or was associated with them in some way?

Can we find any info on BMSr's parents names? And maybe as you all read about the Lundgren case you could watch for his parents names?



Yesterday you all were talking about how some churches seem to be associated with this type of case. But I think it is two separate issues. One is the religion as an institution, where they don't report and believe they will handle any problems themselves. So it happens more often because there aren't any limits other than they will be "talked to." But the other issue is the "terrorism" thinking. An Islamist terrorist picks and chooses what part of the Koran to use and assigns his own interpetation to that part. A child abuser does it too.

My DD was about a year old and I was dating this guy when he made a comment that really bothered me. Enough that I broke up with him. I forget how it came up but he said that incest was in the Bible. And he told me how. There was something about his attitude and his thinking about it that really bothered me. So that was the end of him. I don't know whether or not he was an abuser, but I wasn't going to find out with my kid. But this is an example of how a child abuser can use the Bible to justify his own actions.

here's a link w/ some genealogy info

http://www.tfl.net/descenden/pafg05.htm

How creepy that that guy brought up the incest subject....sounds like he was 'testing the waters' to see what kind of reaction he got...good thing he said something so you could remove yourself & your DD!!

 

[Wintergreen]

Thank you Texas Mist for your link to the family history. If you follow this link inside the same website and look at the top of the page under "Eldon Henry Mohler" you will see a chilling comment:

http://www.tfl.net/descenden/pafn03.htm#159

I am new here and have learned so much from your patient reasoning and your relentless pursuit of the truth!

 

[Missizzy]

Hmmmm.

http://leavenworthscandal.com/

"A cover-up in the Randy Leach murder case and what a couple of officers of the Leavenworth County District Court did to an inmate at the Leavenworth County Jail who is a former police officer after he learned the identities of the men who murdered Randy Leach, details of how it happened.........."

 

[CHICANA]

This happened in the 50's and was near the M's? BMSr would have been about 4 years old at the time right? Children who are abused go one of two ways, they become advocates and extremely sensitive to others who might be being abused. Or they become abusers themselves. Many times they will escalate the type of abuse. The M's case is one of the most extreme cases I have seen. And it looks like Lundgren was another. What are the chances that BMSr was one of those children, or was associated with them in some way?

Can we find any info on BMSr's parents names? And maybe as you all read about the Lundgren case you could watch for his parents names?



Yesterday you all were talking about how some churches seem to be associated with this type of case. But I think it is two separate issues. One is the religion as an institution, where they don't report and believe they will handle any problems themselves. So it happens more often because there aren't any limits other than they will be "talked to." But the other issue is the "terrorism" thinking. An Islamist terrorist picks and chooses what part of the Koran to use and assigns his own interpetation to that part. A child abuser does it too.

My DD was about a year old and I was dating this guy when he made a comment that really bothered me. Enough that I broke up with him. I forget how it came up but he said that incest was in the Bible. And he told me how. There was something about his attitude and his thinking about it that really bothered me. So that was the end of him. I don't know whether or not he was an abuser, but I wasn't going to find out with my kid. But this is an example of how a child abuser can use the Bible to justify his own actions.

Women are 'taught' to be subservient and obey the men. This might be ok if it's a 'good man' but that kind of authority given to an abuser is dangerous.
Add that to the fact that they have living 'prophets' that they listen to and follow.
The bible does say that wives should obey their husbands and that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.

Believe it or not, I could go for this. Hubby: I love you so much, I would die for you. Here, I raised the limit on your credit card to $10k so you can go shopping. Don't even worry about the bill, it's my job to take care of it and you. Before you leave in your new car that's parked out front, I want you to please bring me a beer and hand me the remote.
Me: Of course sweetheart, I'll even pour it in a glass for a change.

Now back to my real life and my real hubby who has consistently left his dirty underwear on the floor for the past 11 YEARS.

 

[mysteriew]

Mysteriew--I think you've got your dates confused. Jeffrey Lundgren was born in 1950 and killed the Avery family--all five of them--on April 17, 1989. He would have been just a few years older than Burrell Jr. who was born in 1956 IIRC.

I'm also wondering about the April significance as that is when the girls recalled the "murder". April 15, 1988 is the night that Randy Leach disappeared. Just a coincidence?

Ok, thanksMissIzzy. So BMSr himself could have attended or have been associated with the Lundgren group.

On the kids remembrance's, remember they were young. So there memories could have faded or have been vague to begin with esp when it comes to dates and ages. Those things are really hard to remember when you are young. Sizes also could have been off. A "grownup" to a 5 year old is often anyone old enough to have a part time job, or who is as tall as their parents. And to a little bitty girl looking up, height and weight is hard to gauge. Also bad things tend to get bigger in the memory.

 

[mysteriew]

here's a link w/ some genealogy info

http://www.tfl.net/descenden/pafg05.htm

How creepy that that guy brought up the incest subject....sounds like he was 'testing the waters' to see what kind of reaction he got...good thing he said something so you could remove yourself & your DD!!

Yeah, I still wonder about him sometimes.

 

[Texas Mist]

Thank you Texas Mist for your link to the family history. If you follow this link inside the same website and look at the top of the page under "Eldon Henry Mohler" you will see a chilling comment:

http://www.tfl.net/descenden/pafn03.htm#159

I am new here and have learned so much from your patient reasoning and your relentless pursuit of the truth!

Welcome, Wintergreen!!

And TY TY for the clue we have been looking for!!

It confirmed what many of us suspected -- there had to be violence or abuse in BM Sr's past.

It explains so much.

 

[Missizzy]

From one of the tips on the Randy Leach site:

"...and found two notes at different locations at the site described by the young girl"

Why would notes be left? Sounds like a theme in this case. Almost as if someone was trying to leave a trail or to call for help.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Havent had time to catch up on recent posts but can someone fill me in on recent posts regarding possible abuse in Mohler Srs childhood?

 

[Texas Mist]

Ok, thanksMissIzzy. So BMSr himself could have attended or have been associated with the Lundgren group.

On the kids remembrance's, remember they were young. So there memories could have faded or have been vague to begin with esp when it comes to dates and ages. Those things are really hard to remember when you are young. Sizes also could have been off. A "grownup" to a 5 year old is often anyone old enough to have a part time job, or who is as tall as their parents. And to a little bitty girl looking up, height and weight is hard to gauge. Also bad things tend to get bigger in the memory.

I'm thinking that "April" is remembered because there was something of significance that occurred -- sometimes Easter comes late -- early April.

Maybe a birthday, or something special going on at church, or school.