MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #3

[PAXIMUS]

At some point the Judge will force them to have an attorney unless they decide to represent themselves, they cannot go to trial without representation.

But I have to ask, how do we know they dont have attornies, has the news reports said that or have they just not mentioned them having lawyers, because I believe they likely do have PDs at this point and the media just may not be reporting it. Like I said at some point the Judge will see to it one way or another that they are represented or declared pro se (self representation).
If a Judge allows them to go too long without forced representation he would be setting himself up for an appeal because they could claim they never had any representation.

I do find it interesting that J has waived his prelim hearing rights and 7 times out of 10 in my experience that means a plea bargain is being worked out.

 

[Wintergreen]

At some point the Judge will force them to have an attorney unless they decide to represent themselves, they cannot go to trial without representation.

But I have to ask, how do we know they dont have attornies, has the news reports said that or have they just not mentioned them having lawyers, because I believe they likely do have PDs at this point and the media just may not be reporting it. Like I said at some point the Judge will see to it one way or another that they are represented or declared pro se (self representation).
If a Judge allows them to go too long without forced representation he would be setting himself up for an appeal because they could claim they never had any representation.

I do find it interesting that J has waived his prelim hearing rights and 7 times out of 10 in my experience that means a plea bargain is being worked out.

Thank you Paximus--it makes more sense now!

 

[newcomer]

Just out of curiosity, do we know if the Mohler's can communicate in jail? Or do they keep them separated?

 

[CHICANA]

At some point the Judge will force them to have an attorney unless they decide to represent themselves, they cannot go to trial without representation.

But I have to ask, how do we know they dont have attornies, has the news reports said that or have they just not mentioned them having lawyers, because I believe they likely do have PDs at this point and the media just may not be reporting it. Like I said at some point the Judge will see to it one way or another that they are represented or declared pro se (self representation).
If a Judge allows them to go too long without forced representation he would be setting himself up for an appeal because they could claim they never had any representation.

I do find it interesting that J has waived his prelim hearing rights and 7 times out of 10 in my experience that means a plea bargain is being worked out.

I think Burrell's Sr & Jr played the biggest roles, maybe we'll get the truth when the other brothers become witnesses for the state.

 

[Missizzy]

I agree, Chicana. While I'd like a very big book thrown at all of them, I'll accept a lighter sentence for a couple if they'll spill the beans of the two Burrells. However, I really think that Jared is a bit of a rogue. He's the only one who never married as far as I know and seemed to have an awful lot of computer gear seized from his home. You notice that he also had the funds for an attorney. He worked/works at Carfax.

I get a strong feeling from David that he's been kept in "check" for some reason for years by his wife. He seems to have the most stable and mainstream sort of life--one marriage, two girls, good job, a circle of friends. He sounds more "normal" in some way. I know that can mean that he just blended in better and I could be all wet. It's just a gut feeling I have about him. I can't figure Roland out. He also has a good job as an EMT but I can't get a feeling about his personality. I also worry that some of the women in the family, other than JM, knew about this. I hope they are prosecuted if that comes out.

It always comes back to the two Burrells as being the most frequent abusers. The others should rot if they were involved but maybe they will find a higher purpose to their lives....letting the family secret out. I grit my teeth as I write this...but there is some honor in finally telling the truth and coming clean. Being such good Christian men, what was their plan, anyway? It's always been my understanding that once you pass into the next plane, questions are asked.

For Paximus:

http://www.kctv5.com/news/21798280/detail.html

"Three of the Mohler family members accused of sex crimes against children were in court on Thursday morning where the big issue was getting attorneys for all the men."

and this one:

http://www.kmbc.com/news/21797513/detail.html

"Burrell Mohler Jr. and Roland Mohler also appeared in court for a status hearing. Neither man had an attorney present.

The judge gave both men a list from a lawyer referral service. Roland Mohler claimed he had too many assets to qualify for a public defender."

Looks like the judge is doing what he can but it does seem as if some of the Mohler men are "foot-dragging". I wonder what that means.

 

[CHICANA]

I agree ohiogirl. I actually tried to find out if it's even legal in Missouri to just sit there. I can't find a statute, can anybody else. I find that very odd. When you think about, the citizens of Missouri are paying room and board for a group of guys that don't seem to have a plan. Maybe some of the Mohlers actually feel safer locked up than if they walked free. JMO

The cat is out of the bag, though, and their lives have been exposed. If they have nothing to hide (although that seems implausible to me at this point), why not accept a public defender and fight like heck to clear their names? If it were me, I'd want to get the ball rolling. Maybe, they're still in shock that they got caught. Maybe they truly believed that their threats would last a lifetime.

If they don't post bond, they'll stay in there til their trials.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Just out of curiosity, do we know if the Mohler's can communicate in jail? Or do they keep them separated?

No way they can communicate, that would allow them to plot and plan and get their stories straight.

 

[cleo612]

At some point the Judge will force them to have an attorney unless they decide to represent themselves, they cannot go to trial without representation.

But I have to ask, how do we know they dont have attornies, has the news reports said that or have they just not mentioned them having lawyers, because I believe they likely do have PDs at this point and the media just may not be reporting it. Like I said at some point the Judge will see to it one way or another that they are represented or declared pro se (self representation).
If a Judge allows them to go too long without forced representation he would be setting himself up for an appeal because they could claim they never had any representation.

I do find it interesting that J has waived his prelim hearing rights and 7 times out of 10 in my experience that means a plea bargain is being worked out.

Bolded by me...

This would make sense to me, also. Jared was the first one to lawyer up. This lawyer could have gone to the prosecutor and offered up Jared's testimony in exchange for a plea deal. Jared could very well be willing to give up information on his father and brothers in order to save his own backside from a harsh prison sentence. Having his testimony would certainly lend a lot of credence to the statements and testimony of these victims--especially after all these years, and the likelihood of very little, if any, physical evidence.

I seem to recall reading something in one of the probable cause statements that described one of the incidents that involved Jared. It was stated that Burrell, Sr. took one of the victims to one room and raped her, and that Jared was in another room with another of the victims. When Burrell, Sr. came back to the room where Jared was and learned that Jared had not "done the deed," so to speak, Burrell, Sr. told Jared to leave the room and then proceeded to rape the young victim himself.

This leads me to believe that Jared may not have had as much "physical" culpability or involvement as the others and is now willing to turn state's evidence against the others. In other words, he may not have participated as much in the physical aspects of these crimes.

I can't recall what all was found during the searches of Jared's home. I seem to recall that there was some possible child found on his computers or maybe in his home/garage.

While anything related to child is totally abhorrent to me, I wonder if the law views possession of child with the same severity as actually participating in a child rape. If not, that could lead a prosecutor to make a plea deal offer to try and make a stronger case against those who were more active participants in these crimes.

In reference to another topic that was discussed a bit upthread, I found it interesting that David's attorney's law firm put up David's bond. As I recall, David's church is the one that was doing fundraisers to raise the money for David's bail, as well as his legal representation. I would almost bet that this attorney is a member of the same church as David.

 

[Missizzy]

It just suddenly dawned on me that I can't remember a single instance, since the Mohlers were arrested, that a "supporter" has stepped forward to speak to their reputation as good fathers. Not one. I've heard umpteen comments about how up-standing and church-going they are. I've read about their lay ministry work and their baptisms.

For any man, though, what is your greatest accomplishment...your children. Why hasn't anyone said,

"Oh, that Burrell--he's always adored those kids. He's done so much for them. They're all so close. How could they say this nasty stuff?"

"Roland/Jared/Darrel/David are tender loving fathers/uncles who've always been there for their families. I've always trusted them implicitly with my kids and grandkids. They are fine men and dedicated Dads. This will all come out in the wash and these Daddies will forgive their children for their confusion. It must have been some sort of therapist who brainwashed them to recollect these vile memories."

"These girls have always raved about the delightful summers they spent on Grandpa's farm. I just can't understand this. These kids are my cousins and the one guy is my Dad. I would have known, I'm sure. I've always felt so protected and loved in this family. It just can't be."

Hmmmm.....haven't heard a word, have we? Why?

 

[mysteriew]

Yeah it is almost like they can't find anything else good to say so they will talk about their work with the church and/or what good friends they were. Usually you will see someone who talks about how good a parent he was, or how he spent so much time with the kids or what ever.

I also get the impression that the Sr/Jr combo seem to be the most active, and the others maybe one time participants or sporadic at best. Which to me means that maybe they aren't any better than the two regulars, but yeah I could accept a plea if it increased the odds of getting the others.

I do wonder about that anecdote about Jared. He was there, he evidently knew what was to happen. Yet he didn't. So if he couldn't, why was he there? Was he pressured in some way by Sr.? Was it something that he thought he wanted and found that he didn't want? And why was it so important to Sr that if Jared didn't do it that he had to do it? A lot of things I really don't understand about this group.

 

[Missizzy]

Mysteriew--In all honesty, I'd worry about you if you DID understand this group. Really. This defies understanding.

I wanted everyone to know that I got my copy of "Prophet of Death: The Mormon Blood Atonement Killings" by Pete Earley. I don't think I've ever read a "true crime" novel. I've already started it and it's hard to put down--a bit like a National Enquirer sitting on the table. Except this nasty stuff really happened.

I had a thought, too, that I wanted to share. Remember the girls saying that one of the Burrells said that "the gypsies were in town" and they were taken out to a farm where they were raped in a van? I wonder if this could be in reference to Jeff Lundgren? After he and his RLDS cult killed the Avery family in Kirtland, Ohio, they went to WV for a short while and ended up back in Holden, Missouri--not far from the Mohlers' Bates City farmhouse. They spent several months there in the fall and winter of 1989. Could Jeff Lundgren and his group have been the gypsies? Is there any way to find out what kind of vehicles the Lundgren group drove?

If Paximus sees this--I'm still curious about your involvement with the Randy Leach case. I can't stop thinking about that link too.

OK, does it somehow minimize my reading this book if I stack it under a nice Irish novel, my "Life is a Verb" and a "French Girl Knits"? Just checking.

 

[Texas Mist]

Mysteriew--In all honesty, I'd worry about you if you DID understand this group. Really. This defies understanding.

I wanted everyone to know that I got my copy of "Prophet of Death: The Mormon Blood Atonement Killings" by Pete Earley. I don't think I've ever read a "true crime" novel. I've already started it and it's hard to put down--a bit like a National Enquirer sitting on the table. Except this nasty stuff really happened.

I had a thought, too, that I wanted to share. Remember the girls saying that one of the Burrells said that "the gypsies were in town" and they were taken out to a farm where they were raped in a van? I wonder if this could be in reference to Jeff Lundgren? After he and his RLDS cult killed the Avery family in Kirtland, Ohio, they went to WV for a short while and ended up back in Holden, Missouri--not far from the Mohlers' Bates City farmhouse. They spent several months there in the fall and winter of 1989. Could Jeff Lundgren and his group have been the gypsies? Is there any way to find out what kind of vehicles the Lundgren group drove?

If Paximus sees this--I'm still curious about your involvement with the Randy Leach case. I can't stop thinking about that link too.

OK, does it somehow minimize my reading this book if I stack it under a nice Irish novel, my "Life is a Verb" and a "French Girl Knits"? Just checking.

BBM

Great find on a possible connection, MissIzzy - but I wonder if Lundgren would be 'in on it' -- and not have wanted something for himself....he just doesn't strike me as being so accomodating for others -- unless he got something out of it too, IYKWIM.

I would certainly be the wrong person to ask about reading true crime books...I've probably read hundreds....but it does kinda freak out other people who *don't* read true crime....(they didn't understand my obsession with "killer books", full of gore & tales of twisted evil.)...only other true crime readers ever want to discuss them...so yeah, if it's out where people can see it, it's in a good spot between your other high-brow reading.

And oh yeah -- I ran across some articles about these 2 brothers who are/were pediatricians who have been charged with sexual abuse of some kids as far back as the 80's.

The reason I bring it up is because at trial, the "child erotica" was allowed in as evidence because it went to motive -- lust, in their case, for young boys.

This leaves me to believe that the child erotica & other found @ Mohler Sr's or that of any other family members, will not necessarily not be allowed in at trial...I'm sure no defense attorney would want it allowed, but that's what they are there to do -- object to anything & everything that could make their clients look guilty.



The prosecution's case is based largely on statements of four accusers, coupled with thousands of photos of adolescent boys.

An expert testified some of these images are consistent with "child erotica." The photos focus on boys' buttocks, genitalia or shirtless torsos. Many were taken during sports matches or practice sessions, but some, for instance, focused on just the buttocks of an unidentified boy pushing grocery carts in a parking lot.

The images are not pornographic and are not illegal, but the expert testified such images can help fuel fantasies or serve as sexual gratification for some people. Prosecutors say the photos are evidence of a motive for the alleged sex crimes in Mark Blankenburg's case: a lust for boys.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091010/NEWS010702/910110336

I can't believe I hadn't heard of these 2 pervy pedos from Ohio until tonite....no telling how many actual vics they have.


ETA: here's the prosecutor's take on the confidence level of the perps....we may well see this play out in the Mohler case.

Asked about Blankenburg's confident demeanor during the trial's early stages, Piper said defendants in child-molestation cases often become delusional in thinking that they can get away with their crimes. They tend to invest a lot of time and effort building a reputation that seems to be legitimate, to help insulate them from any allegations that might arise.

Mark Blankenburg, for example, "played poker with police officers, hung out with the athletic boosters, school principals...rubbed elbows with all the right people," Piper said.

.....

Whenever high-ranking members of society have been accused of serious crimes, those people are reluctant to admit to anything, Piper said.

"They've worked so hard at creating that image, so it's very hard to shatter that image by pleading guilty."

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091018/NEWS01/910190325

 

[mysteriew]

I just posted an article on the Blankenburgs. There are new charges on them because there is a new victim. And it was determined that while out on bond, they gave more drugs to the new victim.

 

[Missizzy]

Well shoot--I did not know about that case. I guess I will now. Texas Mist, before you get it into your mind that I sit here in my ivory tower reading classic Irish novels and lovely knitting journals...let me gently set you straight. I've spent the last 12 years trolling the internet looking for child addicts and reading everything I can get my hands on about pedophilia. So, I'm not so pure. LOL I've just never been drawn to read crime novels as I lived it. When I pick up a novel, I want to escape the nasties.

It's interesting as my husband has to read every Kellerman that comes out. I about spit last week when he told me the plot line of the one he was reading...a foster dad who rapes and impregnates his special needs foster daughters. Yuck. He reads that for relaxation? And then I look at myself and see that we're on post 450 about the Mohlers. Not much different. Form follows function. Fiction follows fact.

I swear the description you give above sounds like it came straight from our trial. Our children's rapist was sent to stay at a local city's mayor's house and then the director of children's services' house!! He was almost an Eagle Scout and helped out at Rotary functions with his Dad who went to other countries as a doctor to help kids. Yikes. Don't these guys ever think of anything new? Concerning the , our judge allowed it in even though it was totally legal stuff--Penthouse and Playboy. The judge said that it showed that the teen had a strong interest in sex and that he'd showed the to our children to break down their barriers.

OK, back to my "Blood Atonement" book. I'm carefully tracking vehicles and timeframes. Being that the girls' stories were almost all about summer, does anyone remember if the "gypsy" one also happened in the summer? You are so right about Lundgren. He wanted everything for himself. He would have never taken seconds. I just thought that the time frame--1989--the location--Missouri--and the church--RLDS--might show us a connection. Stay tuned as I'm almost done. Don't forget that there's the Jeff-Alabama thing.

On another issue I noticed this forum post which surprised me a little:

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/11/burrell_edward_mohler_sr_and_h.php

"One of the female victims came forward and she is a Kansas City Police, Yes "she"!"

posted by Heather on 11/28.

 

[Soulmagent]

Wintergreen--In everything I've read about the Community of Christ church, I've learned that members are often chosen as "lay ministers" and seem to travel around to different churches to preach. The church leaders were very quick to point out that the Mohlers had no position involving children but I disagree with that statement. I believe that preaching and baptizing does put one in a position of authority over children JMO.

Some fairly recent church bulletins are posted on the web and that's how I determined that Burrell Sr. had preached last Father's Day and that David and his daughter had ushered recently.

I think you just have to really sleuth out the bulletins or wait for locals to comment on Topix. Another thing you might try is to go the main page for churches in a particular state:

http://www.cofchrist.org/directory/activedirectory.asp

and do some checking. I think it's fair to say that the Mohler men moved about the Independence, MO and Lamoni, IA area churches quite regularly. JMO

For more info on the church itself and its practices, you might want to check:

http://www.cofchrist.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Christ

Can we connect the Mohlers to Independence Boulevard Christian Church, 606 Gladstone Blvd.

This is the church near where Renee Pernice's phone was found.
Also Mohlers sr wife that died was a teacher ,and so was KS who was questioned in the Renee's case. Not that that makes a connection but it is another interesting coincidence. I am finding it hard to have time follow this thread due to work so if I repost anything that has been posted or anything that has been sleuthed and deemed not connected just post it on my sleuthwall so I dont continue to take up space rehashing things. Thanks!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Its been eerily quiet with this case. I wonder why!

 

[Sheromom]

Its been eerily quiet with this case. I wonder why!

It has and there is nothing I would like better than to keep their names in the limelight!

 

[Missizzy]

In Missouri, after the arrests and the Probable Cause and Search Warrants have been made public, what's next? Obviously, LOTS of investigation is on-going. But will we get more documents and/or releases about developments?

Sheromom--ITA, this needs to stay front page!!

I checked into the Independence Blvd. Christian Church and any connection with the Mohlers. I found none. That church is identified as being Disciples of Christ affiliated. All I've every found for the Mohler family is involvement with the RLDS/Community of Christ, LDS church, and Graceland University and possibly Graceland Missions (if Darrel's son is actually the JMohler who is a youth minister with that group in Florida). I see no connections with the Disciples of Christ denomination unless I'm missing something.

 

[Missizzy]

Can anybody help me find the reference to "the gypsies are in town" in a document? I found it in a Fox news article but wonder if there is a reference in a Probable Cause or Search Warrant document. Thanks.

OK...let me put a thought out there. I'm almost done with the book on Jeff Lundgren and have been watching carefully as he passed mighty close to the Mohler family at the exact time (Fall 1989) the Mohler crimes were allegedly being committed. I'm going to transcribe a short paragraph below. This is from Pete Earley's "Prophet of Death", page 346:

"The weather in Missouri turned so frigid just before Thanksgiving that Ron Luff contacted his brother, Rick, who owned a farm outside Warrensburg [ETA 31 miles from Bates City] and asked him if the group could move onto the property. Rick had a loft in his house where the children could sleep at night. He had a barn that was just as big as the one in Chilhowee, but in better condition, and there was a small trailer on the property that Rick usually rented out. Rick said the group was welcome. Like Ron, he was deeply religious and he was curious about Jeffrey and his teachings."

The next few paragraphs describe how the group made the move swiftly and it seemed as if Ron was more in charge. Jeff moved into the trailer and was rumored to be watching hard-core with his new "wife", Kathryn. There is talk about going shopping at Bannister Mall in Kansas City.

There soon was a confrontation with the property owner as he learned that Jeff had two wives. He told them to leave. Jeff packed up his truck with Kathy and his children and drove away to Calfiornia, where he would be arrested. The others scattered nearby; Independence, Higginsville, and Macks Creek. The group quickly dissolved. It sounds as if the group was on that farm for less than two weeks, if that.

 

[IWannaKnow]

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-mohler-mother-aware-of-rapes-111909,0,2906638.story

"In another incident, two victims stated they were playing at their grandfather's farm in Lafayette County, Mo., when someone said, "gypsies are in town." The girls were then taken by their father and uncle Roland to a location where several vans and RVs were parked. The girls were then placed inside a brown van where they were again raped by their father and uncle. The rapes stopped when someone pounded on the door and asked if everything was okay."