MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #3

[Missizzy]

Thanks IWannaKnow, that's the only place I see it, too. I don't remember seeing any mention of the children being at the farm in the winter months but I might have missed something. This would have definitely been around Thanksgiving. Hmmm...I wonder if the girls would have gone out to Grandpa's for that Holiday?

It's probably nothing but it sure seems to be a coincidence. A lot of crossed paths. I'd be very surprised if Burrell Sr. didn't at least know of Jeff Lundgren. Jeff was known to hold prayer meetings and sermons in RLDS homes, especially the more fundamentalist ones. The two men also belonged to same church and shared a great interest in twisted sex and (Burrell allegedly did). Might some sharing of that taken place? Remember, in those days it wasn't nearly as easy to get your hands on the yucky stuff.

 

[Missizzy]

FWIW, the Community of Christ changed its name from RLDS in 2001, around the time they started allowing the ordination of women as priests. Other posters have mentioned that this caused a huge rift in the church. I was surprised to see that they also recognize and honor the gay and lesbian community:

http://galaweb.org/

I imagine that decision also caused some dissent with some members. I don't know how much of this change was occurring, though, in the late 80s. These facts tell me that women have a greater voice in this church than they did in the past.

 

[mysteriew]

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-mohler-mother-aware-of-rapes-111909,0,2906638.story

"In another incident, two victims stated they were playing at their grandfather's farm in Lafayette County, Mo., when someone said, "gypsies are in town." The girls were then taken by their father and uncle Roland to a location where several vans and RVs were parked. The girls were then placed inside a brown van where they were again raped by their father and uncle. The rapes stopped when someone pounded on the door and asked if everything was okay."

I stil haven't figured this part out. Why go to the gypsies and rape there? Evidently it isn't because they thought the activity would be welcomed, as the rapes wouldn't have stopped when someone knocked on the door if they were welcomed. I thought about it maybe being a lookout knocking to say it wasn't safe, but a lookour wouldn't have asked if everything was ok.

Whose van was it?

I wish I knew the whole story on this part. This is the only part that I have trouble believing, and I know that is probably because I haven't heard the whole story.

 

[pennydawn]

I stil haven't figured this part out. Why go to the gypsies and rape there? Evidently it isn't because they thought the activity would be welcomed, as the rapes wouldn't have stopped when someone knocked on the door if they were welcomed. I thought about it maybe being a lookout knocking to say it wasn't safe, but a lookour wouldn't have asked if everything was ok.

Whose van was it?

I wish I knew the whole story on this part. This is the only part that I have trouble believing, and I know that is probably because I haven't heard the whole story.

The reference to the gypsies is puzzling. Perhaps it was an underground pedo ring. Maybe the knock on the door, and the question ("Is everything okay?") was code for time to go, my turn, or cops coming, etc.

One thing I've been pondering is the frequency of the assaults. When we read it all at once, it's easy to think the victims were raped every hour, on the hour. In reality, however, it was probably more sporadically. Perhaps survivors of incestuous abuse can shed some light on the perceived relationship between victim and perpetrator. Were there times things seemed normal, even appropriately loving between them? Or did the victims feel threatened every second of every day?

My guess is that there were times grandpa and the uncles were...for lack of a better word...sweet. For example, the girls were led down to the fields to see horses at one point. My impression was that it was supposed to be similar to a reward. Something fun, you know? Go see the horses. And when the girls arrived at the corral, the sinister bastards struck hard. I think these men reveled in the shock factor, in seeing the horror on their victims' faces. Remember the comment about waterbeds popping in the middle of the night? After being raped, I doubt those little girls were going to sleep at all. Yet their grandfather (allegedly) found it necessary to instill even MORE fear.

Interesting also that the abuse also seemed to stop for every victim around the age of 12. I wonder if this was because of the onset of menstruation (and thus, the risk of pregnancies,) or if these men preferred their victims more girlish? Does the number 7 have any significance in this religion? The abuse began consistently within the 5th year, ended consistently by age 12. 7 years of abuse. Does it take 7 years to train girls to be women? Can anyone find a reference?

One last thing that's bothering me: Most of the alleged perps are close to 250-300 pounds. I have no idea if they were that large back in the day, but have any of you thought about the sheer size of a 250-300 pound man in comparison to a tiny 5-year-old child? We were talking about forcible compulsion a few pages back. With well over 200 pounds on a kid, I can only imagine the force--implied or real.

 

[Wintergreen]

Can anybody help me find the reference to "the gypsies are in town" in a document? I found it in a Fox news article but wonder if there is a reference in a Probable Cause or Search Warrant document. Thanks.

OK...let me put a thought out there. I'm almost done with the book on Jeff Lundgren and have been watching carefully as he passed mighty close to the Mohler family at the exact time (Fall 1989) the Mohler crimes were allegedly being committed. I'm going to transcribe a short paragraph below. This is from Pete Earley's "Prophet of Death", page 346:

"The weather in Missouri turned so frigid just before Thanksgiving that Ron Luff contacted his brother, Rick, who owned a farm outside Warrensburg [ETA 31 miles from Bates City] and asked him if the group could move onto the property. Rick had a loft in his house where the children could sleep at night. He had a barn that was just as big as the one in Chilhowee, but in better condition, and there was a small trailer on the property that Rick usually rented out. Rick said the group was welcome. Like Ron, he was deeply religious and he was curious about Jeffrey and his teachings."

The next few paragraphs describe how the group made the move swiftly and it seemed as if Ron was more in charge. Jeff moved into the trailer and was rumored to be watching hard-core with his new "wife", Kathryn. There is talk about going shopping at Bannister Mall in Kansas City.

There soon was a confrontation with the property owner as he learned that Jeff had two wives. He told them to leave. Jeff packed up his truck with Kathy and his children and drove away to Calfiornia, where he would be arrested. The others scattered nearby; Independence, Higginsville, and Macks Creek. The group quickly dissolved. It sounds as if the group was on that farm for less than two weeks, if that.

Missizzy--I can't find anything about the source of the gypsies quote--is it possible they just haven't posted the original online yet?

From those of us who may never have the time to read the book, thank you for the excerpt! Your timeline with Lundgren's visit to Missouri is so compelling.

 

[Missizzy]

Pennydawn--I, too, have wondered about signs and signals that we just have no knowledge of. Think about the comment about the "flipped ring" every time a person would be murdered. I spent a good hour researching that and found nothing. You might be onto something, though, with the numbers and the "secret codes".

I agree that the men's sheer size would have equaled forcible compulsion...although, it's amazing to me that that isn't always necessary. Just a mere threat will do. I've spent a lot of time reading and learning from the following site:

http://mormonalliance.org/

There might be answers in there that I don't see. Being that we know that David, Roland, and Darrel have children (some still very young), isn't it odd how we are not hearing from them yet? Where were these men's wives--the children's mothers--when the abuse was taking place? What are these women saying today? There are so many many questions.

Reading "Prophet of Death", about Jeff Lundgren and his group of RLDS killers, has opened my eyes. How on earth could intelligent people believe the garbage that was told to them. When Jeff drove away from them in Missouri, they were totally bereft. They did NOT know what to do. I wonder if that's the way the Mohler children felt.

Not being a survivor of childhood abuse, I don't know how to answer the question about whether these guys ever approached normalcy. I do know, though, that children hope against hope that things will "get better". Don't most humans? Children who have come to us through adoption or foster care truly held out hope for years that their abusive parents will "get better". It's so hard to look at the situation from the outside. Only the victims know what sorts of compartmentalism or mental tricks they used to get through their days of hell.

 

[mysteriew]

I was molested (not raped) by my GF. Yeah during that time period he tried to be nice. The thing was that before he molested me, he ignored me. So when he became nice it seemed weird. It happened to me just a few times until I finally stood up for myself and said no. Then he ignored me again. But yeah, afterwards there was always a feeling of distrust toward him. I didn't want his attention.

I was older and my situation was relatively mild. So things would have been very different for those girls. There are many issues with little kids that I didn't face. I've read that it isn't uncommon for young kids to be 'sexualized'. So while they hate the sexual contact, sometimes they may want the contact or the attention they get from it. Then there are the emotional torture issues too. And I don't know about the between times, when they weren't on the farm with Grandpa, they were home with their father. There isn't any indication if their father abused them at home or only with the GP. There is no way to know if the mother knew, if she was supportive of them or if she was even in their life. So how they coped, I don't have any idea.

 

[Missizzy]

Just a few stories to start with:

http://mormonalliance.org/caserepor...ICHARD KENNETH RAY, MESA, ARIZONA, 1976, 1984

I defy anyone to read these case reports and to conclude that the overall atmosphere of the LDS/RLDS/Community of Christ church had no impact on these victims or the outcomes of these cases. So much of what I've read on this site is repeated in the book about Jeff Lundgren, who was a self appointed RLDS prophet and killer. He was obsessed with and twisted and sick sexual paraphilias and on a power trip beyond all belief.

Please correct me if this interpretation is wrong or this site is not a dependable source.

 

[mysteriew]

Reading "Prophet of Death", about Jeff Lundgren and his group of RLDS killers, has opened my eyes. How on earth could intelligent people believe the garbage that was told to them. When Jeff drove away from them in Missouri, they were totally bereft. They did NOT know what to do. I wonder if that's the way the Mohler children felt.

It seems to happen a lot with religions. Often brainwashing is a factor. Initiation periods where drugs, sleep deprivation, force, intimidation or other factors might also be involved. And while a lot of cultish religions base their beliefs (sometimes very bizarre beliefs) on various religions, the Mormons have had more than their share of cultish offshoots. But the main factor seems to be a charismatic leader. Someone who people will believe no matter how bizarre the belief.

 

[Missizzy]

I'm going out on a limb here. The woman who is writing a book about the disappearance of Randy Leach in April 1988, alerted me to another murder during that same time frame. There's very little info available on this murder...possibly because the victim was a black prostitute JMO. If you go to this link:

http://www.projectjason.org/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=859.0

and search for "Kathy Webb", you will find her sad story.

"Kathy Webb was five months pregnant when she was stabbed 96 times, beaten and choked to death."

Note that she was murdered in January 1988 and found at Sugar Creek, MO. Sugar Creek is part of Independence, MO and only a short distance from any of the Mohler homes or churches. Also, note that police believe that Kathy's sister was killed when trying to investigate:

"Her sister was found in Kansas City, Kan., Jan. 15, 2000," Sgt. Rick DeFelice said. "Exactly to the day 12 years. Both murdered in similar fashion." "I think Anita tried to find out who murdered her sister and that might be what got her murdered," Roberts said."

This came up for me again while reading "Prophet of Death". It turns out that Jeff Lundgren grew up attending the "prestigious" Slover Park RLDS Congregation in Independence. Jeff Lundgren's parents met and married at that church in 1948. His grandparents helped found it. Jeff was born in 1950.

When I did a search on just where this church was located (it must have changed names), I came up with Sugar Creek!! Kathy's body was found near the Missouri River on Cement City Road about 2 miles from the World Headquarters of the Community of Christ Church at 1001 W. Walnut St. Independence, MO.

 

[Missizzy]

Remember how there are lots of rumors about Randy Leach's body being taken to a cave?
Well, I noted that the Cement City Rd. area where Kathy Webb's body was found (and which is described as a "dumping ground for bodies") is also where many of the underground storage caves are located.

http://www.insideselfstorage.com/articles/2a1facility2.html

 

[IWannaKnow]

FWIW, the Community of Christ changed its name from RLDS in 2001, around the time they started allowing the ordination of women as priests. Other posters have mentioned that this caused a huge rift in the church. I was surprised to see that they also recognize and honor the gay and lesbian community:

http://galaweb.org/

I imagine that decision also caused some dissent with some members. I don't know how much of this change was occurring, though, in the late 80s. These facts tell me that women have a greater voice in this church than they did in the past.

Missizzy - the exact date of the "revelation" that women should be ordained as ministers was April 3, 1984.
http://www.centerplace.org/library/study/dc/rdc-156.htm

 

[IWannaKnow]

Molesters don't show their true face at all times. They wear their *normal* mask when out amongst the "flock". If they ran around with their freak flag flying at all times, sooner or later they would be shut down. This behavior thrives in the shadows...

As far as the ages go, in my situation my *family* knew that getting pregnant was very hard to cover up (from past experience), so as soon as you started to bleed, they were done with you. There was great emphasis placed on not "bustin' the cherry" because 1) it was physical proof that someone had been where they shouldn't have been 2) that area could get you caught (pregnant - or just physical proof) and 3) it ruined the merchandise for trading off later as "virgin" for marriage. JMHO.

 

[Wintergreen]

I'm going out on a limb here. The woman who is writing a book about the disappearance of Randy Leach in April 1988, alerted me to another murder during that same time frame. There's very little info available on this murder...possibly because the victim was a black prostitute JMO. If you go to this link:

http://www.projectjason.org/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=859.0

and search for "Kathy Webb", you will find her sad story.

"Kathy Webb was five months pregnant when she was stabbed 96 times, beaten and choked to death."

Note that she was murdered in January 1988 and found at Sugar Creek, MO. Sugar Creek is part of Independence, MO and only a short distance from any of the Mohler homes or churches. Also, note that police believe that Kathy's sister was killed when trying to investigate:

"Her sister was found in Kansas City, Kan., Jan. 15, 2000," Sgt. Rick DeFelice said. "Exactly to the day 12 years. Both murdered in similar fashion." "I think Anita tried to find out who murdered her sister and that might be what got her murdered," Roberts said."

This came up for me again while reading "Prophet of Death". It turns out that Jeff Lundgren grew up attending the "prestigious" Slover Park RLDS Congregation in Independence. Jeff Lundgren's parents met and married at that church in 1948. His grandparents helped found it. Jeff was born in 1950.

When I did a search on just where this church was located (it must have changed names), I came up with Sugar Creek!! Kathy's body was found near the Missouri River on Cement City Road about 2 miles from the World Headquarters of the Community of Christ Church at 1001 W. Walnut St. Independence, MO.

Missizzy--I'm sorry, but unable to find her story on that link--how did you find it once you were inside that site? I hope you don't mind me asking, but other than the time frame does the author see a connection between Randy's disappearance and the death of this woman? Just what I've read in your post is sending a cold shivver down my back!

 

[Soulmagent]

Has anyone seen this link? http://http://www.kcmo.org/police/Crime/SexCrimes/SexCrimesColdCaseSquad/index.htm I dont know if it was posted or not.

 

[Wintergreen]

Has anyone seen this link? http://http://www.kcmo.org/police/Crime/SexCrimes/SexCrimesColdCaseSquad/index.htm I dont know if it was posted or not.

Thank you Soulmagent for posting this--it gives an error message though and I'm wondering if you could help me out. Maybe its just my computer this morning?

 

[Texas Mist]

Thank you Soulmagent for posting this--it gives an error message though and I'm wondering if you could help me out. Maybe its just my computer this morning?

here's the fixed link

http://www.kcmo.org/police/Crime/SexCrimes/SexCrimesColdCaseSquad/index.htm

 

[Missizzy]

Here's the snip from the page I linked to about Kathy Webb's murder:

SUGAR CREEK, Mo. The identification of the bodies of Sam and Lindsey Porter in a heavily wooded area in Sugar Creek has brought attention to a 1988 murder that happened there.

Police said over the decades, the woods off of Cement City Road have become notorious as a body dumping ground. A half-dozen bodies have turned up there, dating back to a gangster hit in the 1970s. Perhaps none of them are stranger than the cold case of Kathy Webb, murdered Jan. 15, 1988.

Investigators found the body of Kathy Webb, 26, one mile from where the Porter children were found. The murder changed the life of her 8-year-old daughter, now a mother herself.

"She was beautiful and young," Shalonda Webb said of her mother. "[It] made my life a living hell. I got a 1-year-old son and I got a daughter on the way who will never know their actual grandma."

Kathy Webb was five months pregnant when she was stabbed 96 times, beaten and choked to death.

"Right here was the crime scene that we processed at the time," said Detective Sgt. Steve Topi. "It's a pretty desolate area out here."

Kathy's sister, Patsy Roberts, added, "This is Kathy. She's our baby sister. This is Anita, who was killed in 2000."

Both sisters were murdered on Jan. 15, but 12 years apart.

"Her sister was found in Kansas City, Kan., Jan. 15, 2000," Sgt. Rick DeFelice said. "Exactly to the day 12 years. Both murdered in similar fashion."

"I think Anita tried to find out who murdered her sister and that might be what got her murdered," Roberts said.

Police say there is no evidence linking the case, but they have reopened Kathy Webb's cold case and are using new DNA technology to try to track the killer.

"We're not going to forget this case and we are going to put somebody in jail over it," Topi said.

For Kathy's daughter, she wants to see the killer in jail.

"Whoever did it, I hope they suffer," Shalonda Webb said. "I hope they spend the rest of their life in jail."

Police say the Webb sisters' murders remain unsolved. They urge anyone with information to call the TIPS Hotline at (816) 474-TIPS.

 

[Missizzy]

IWannaKnow--Thank you for providing the date of the permission of ordination of female pastors. I had no idea it was so early. I wonder if the rift it created was what precipitated a lot of the splinter groups at the time? That's certainly when Jeff Lundgren went off the deep end and is when we first hear about abuse within the Mohler family. I find the April date interesting as, several pages back, we were trying to figure out if there was some significance to the month of April--other than Spring or Easter. Wasn't either Darrel or his son ticketed for speeding in MO during that month when they swore they never went near the place? Oh right..."only once or twice".

The reason I posted the link and clip from the article about Kathy Webb is that the person writing the book about Randy Leach's disappearance thought there could be some connection. Kathy was killed in Jan. 1988 and stabbed 96 times!!! I can't even wrap my head around how the coroner could count 96 stab wounds. We know that the girls mention stabbing concerning the murdered man.

Kathy was a black woman and we know that there was some interest in black women by the Mohler men--the Jaimee Foxworth . We also know that there was and still is to a large degree a good deal of exclusion of blacks within the RLDS church. Texas Mist found some outrageous info on that. IMO this would make black women even more taboo and thus "exciting".

We also know that Kathy was found near the river (also mentioned by the girls) and not far from at least 3 RLDS churches. Her resting spot is near some unique underground caves which have been used for years for storage. The storage caves (which seem to be quite common in that area--also stretching over the Kansas border--and to me, fascinating but creepy) come up again and again in all the links I provided about theories concerning Randy's disappearance (who was also was purportedly tortured and stabbed and had his face disfigured--per rumor).

http://www.randyleach.com/


Let's see what we've got:

1986 First reports of sex abuse by Mohler children (per Probable Cause docs)

Jan. '88 Kathy Webb's body found in Sugar Creek, MO

Mar. '88 Another Mohler victim states that abuse began at this time

April '88 Randy Leach disappears (April 16th)

April '88 Mohler girls' time reference for murder

April '89 Jeff Lungren's RLDS splinter "cult" murders Avery family (April 17th)

Oct. '89 Jeff Lundgren's group spends time within 30 miles of the Bates City farm


Please correct or add to this list!!

And concerning Soulmagent's question:

"Can we connect the Mohlers to Independence Boulevard Christian Church, 606 Gladstone Blvd.?"

I'm wondering if, given that there are so many Community of Christ churches in Independence proper, that this church might have "changed hands" over the years. And remember, the churches listed on the Community of Christ website are just the official churches. There are many more RLDS-like or split-off churches in the area.

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=...roup&ct=more-results&resnum=4&ved=0CCUQtQMwAw

 

[Texas Mist]

nothing new to report -- but thought I'd add this link for anyone wanting to catch up on this case


COMPLETE COVERAGE: Mohler Family Sex Crimes Investigation

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-mohler-sex-crimes-investigation-gallery,0,2626605.storygallery