MO - Six Mohler family members for child sex crimes, Bates City 2009 #4

[Missizzy]

I too have to wonder about an article which really adds no new information and yet attempts to shed doubt on the disclosures. This tactic has been used time and again by defense attorneys to unhinge the accusers. One has to wonder how unbiased this reporter actually is.

wfgodot--You bring up a valid point. I, too, hope that LE was not seeking headlines. I just have a strong feeling that much is going on behind the scenes. We need to remember that these were very young children when this alleged abuse occurred. As TM points out, there's no telling what they were told or led to believe. A thorough investigation might or might not prove a murder. But can anyone imagine holding a secret like that for 20 odd years? What matters is what the children were led to believe.

I also take issue with the comment that there were no missing persons from that time frame which fit the description the accusers gave to LE. I would remind everyone about Randy Leach.

http://www.randyleach.com/

 

[Texas Mist]

Found this tonite & IMO, it reinforces that our concerns that anyone possessing CP are legitimate concerns:

"One thing we never knew in the early days is how many pedophiles were out there," said Howell, a founder 25 years ago of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. "With the Internet, we learned there are a whole lot more out there than any of us imagined."

Though generally linking the viewing of the illicit images to child homicide is decidedly a stretch, research is consistent that the compulsion to watch is strongly linked to the compulsion to act out.

"All the experts and professionals in the area have concluded this is not just 'someone looking at pictures,' " Howell said.

from here

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/crime/2010-03-07/story/first_coast_linked_to_growth_in_child_porn

 

[Texas Mist]

another link for reference -- "minister" marrying his 10yo bride in the church

The cases against Cormier have been winding their way through the legal system since social workers intervened in 2002 in the case of a 10-year-old girl he’d claimed as his wife.

The marriage was kept hidden from the mother of the pre-teen girl. The young girl didn’t understand marriage but was able to recount the assaults in vivid detail.

Cormier was arrested in 2003 after a social worker alerted police about the situation.

...........

Cormier, 58, was convicted of sexually assaulting the 10-year-old girl he’d claimed as his bride after a ceremony at the church. He insisted he was innocent and that his young victim was in love with him.



http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/03/08/13152776.html

This isn't made up stories about 'fake' marriages to little girls! It's what pedo-pervs do!!

 

[wfgodot]

Lengthy KC Star overview and update of the case up till now:
Allegations scrutinized in Mohler inquiry, now four months old
Posted on Wed, Mar. 10, 2010 07:46 AM

One day last fall, a 25-year-old man — supposedly wearing a wire — sat down to dinner.

The older man eating across the table was Burrell Mohler Jr., his father.

The evidence being secretly sought involved a very personal matter — memories of his and his sisters of years of alleged sexual abuse by Mohler, his three brothers and their father, Burrell Mohler Sr.
---
Uncles raping young girls in a chicken coop at the grandfather’s Lafayette County farm. Incest in a church, bestiality, mock weddings, laments buried in glass jars, incest hidden above the ceiling tiles.

If those allegations weren’t shocking enough, then came bizarre stories of a sex slave in the crawl space and of little girls stabbing a 300-pound kidnap-and-murder victim.

Today, an update of the complex case finds that the cases against all men are progressing, and their lawyers are battling back, with some asking for venue changes.
---

and much, much more at
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/09/1801627/four-months-ago-allegations-in.html

 

[Missizzy]

I have to say that that was a fair and well presented update. Thank you Mr. Bradley. You've confirmed what many of us have surmised; that LE and the prosecutors are unwilling to try this case in the press. Two quotes that jumped out at me:


"Ramsey tells this story: In January, David offered to help him unload his daughter’s belongings from a truck. The only thing left was to deliver a piano to campus for storage.

On the way there, David said he couldn’t go to the campus because his bond prohibited that, Ramsey recalled. It was Christmas break, and nobody was on campus.

“But he had me stop the car on Main Street,” Ramsey said. “That’s how conscientious he is.”


So, David Mohler is conscientious. That's great as I'm sure he doesn't want to have his bail revoked and end up sitting in jail for the next year. That shows me he's a smart man who understands self-preservation. Doesn't say diddley about child sex abuse, though.

And probably the most poignant comment of all:

“This is just like it happened yesterday for the victims.”

Think about that comment for a moment. We are talking severe trauma to very young children. These men possibly raped and terrorized many many times. They quite possibly have had many legal and illicit sexual encounters. But for these victims, this was huge, life-changing. To have trust betrayed, to have your tender young body injured, to be humiliated. Those memories never fade. I still remember reading a comment in one of the Probable Cause docs where a victim described the quilt on which she was laid out.

These siblings are going to walk up to that witness stand with memories as fresh as yesterday with details that cannot be manufactured. My guess is that a jury will be moved.

My prayers go out to the families of the victims. I pray for strength, fortitude, and an unwavering commitment to end this cycle.

 

[Texas Mist]

Lengthy KC Star overview and update of the case up till now:
Allegations scrutinized in Mohler inquiry, now four months old
Posted on Wed, Mar. 10, 2010 07:46 AM

One day last fall, a 25-year-old man — supposedly wearing a wire — sat down to dinner.

The older man eating across the table was Burrell Mohler Jr., his father.

The evidence being secretly sought involved a very personal matter — memories of his and his sisters of years of alleged sexual abuse by Mohler, his three brothers and their father, Burrell Mohler Sr.
---
Uncles raping young girls in a chicken coop at the grandfather’s Lafayette County farm. Incest in a church, bestiality, mock weddings, laments buried in glass jars, incest hidden above the ceiling tiles.

If those allegations weren’t shocking enough, then came bizarre stories of a sex slave in the crawl space and of little girls stabbing a 300-pound kidnap-and-murder victim.

Today, an update of the complex case finds that the cases against all men are progressing, and their lawyers are battling back, with some asking for venue changes.
---

and much, much more at
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/09/1801627/four-months-ago-allegations-in.html

TY, TY wfgodot for posting this....Wow - I recall talk about the son having dinner w/ his dad -- but he wore a wire! I hope the state got some good info out of that...I can't help but believe there's very incriminating statements by Jr. -- which is one of the things that moved this case forward.

And that Ron G. --ugh...I wish he would STHU about his seeing "no evidence"....what evidence of child rape does he wanna see? Pictures of it? Medical records? How ignorant.

I wish they would quit quoting him.

 

[CHICANA]

TY, TY wfgodot for posting this....Wow - I recall talk about the son having dinner w/ his dad -- but he wore a wire! I hope the state got some good info out of that...I can't help but believe there's very incriminating statements by Jr. -- which is one of the things that moved this case forward.

And that Ron G. --ugh...I wish he would STHU about his seeing "no evidence"....what evidence of child rape does he wanna see? Pictures of it? Medical records? How ignorant.

I wish they would quit quoting him.

This was on the front page of the star this morning. The fact that his son is a cop is going to make this wiretap that much more convincing.

 

[Missizzy]

TM, thanks for the link about the mock weddings. That does come up from time to time, doesn't it? We saw it in some of the testimony from the FLDS and I linked to older stories from here in Oregon. Here it was a Mormon family who moved into the state with a large number of adopted kids. They isolated themselves--way out in the country and homeschooled. The girls were married off to Dad in white dresses and then both parents raped them. The parents took a plea and I think the oldest boy is also doing time. I think I've posted it before but here's a link:

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regional/article_3a388056-b8f9-5ec5-9fa9-785e51355e0f.html

"....Detectives also were told that Greg Miller wed one of his foster [ETA: should read adoptive] daughters in a mock wedding ceremony at the family home, complete with wedding cake, a ring and a white dress, officials said.

Colleen Miller allegedly encouraged sexual relations between all seven of the children, according to a report in the Mail-Tribune newspaper of Medford. Statements from several of the children indicated that sexual contact between them occurred on a regular basis within the home, police said.

A search of the home Monday produced evidence supporting the children's' claims, according to police. Detectives found pornographic pictures, movies, marital-aid devices and the wedding dress reportedly worn by the 15-year-old girl, police said...."

more at link


Offender ID: 16290368
Offender Name: GREGORY ARTHUR MILLER
Date of Birth: 04/20/1948
Age: 61
Custody Status: In Custody
Scheduled Release Date: 11/13/2025
Location of Offender: SNAKE RIVER CORRECTIONAL INSTI
Race: White
Gender: Male


Offender ID: 16321366
Offender Name: COLLEEN L MILLER
Date of Birth: 01/18/1956
Age: 54
Custody Status: In Custody
Scheduled Release Date: 05/16/2028
Location of Offender: Coffee Creek Correctional Faci
Race: White
Gender: Female

 

[Missizzy]

I found an article, written in 1999, concerning the Lundgren cult while I was doing some research on Lundgren's son, Caleb (BTW, Caleb is mentioned in this article as being taken as a child to see his father in prison), and his recent charges of seriously harming an infant. I noticed several very pertinent points to ponder while thinking about the Mohler case:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/lundgren/lundgren2.html

"....But as the 10th anniversary on April 17 draws near, several broke their silence, offering - for the first time - a glimpse into the worlds they shattered, both then and now...."

"...Like the rest of Lundgren's flock, the Luffs [ETA: members of the cult] considered themselves devout Christians, but they and many others like them had grown disenchanted with the church when elders decided to allow women to become top leaders in the faith, an extraordinary move considering that the church had always taught women to be subservient to men...."

and

"....Looking back on that time, Luff now blames the Reorganized church's faith, and its parent, Mormonism, saying its teaching left him and others susceptible to someone like Lundgren who claimed to have divine visions, including one in which he became Christ hanging from the cross on Calvary...."

The Reorganized church faith "is contingent upon revelation," Luff explained. "People are constantly having visions and hearing voices of some form, some type of revelatory experience, seeing angels. If they don't have this, according to the Book of Mormon, it's as though there had been no redemption made."

a very interesting read

Note that the Avery family was murdered on April 17, 1989. The Mohler girls describe the murder of a large man in April 1988. Randy Leach, 6'3" 220 pounds, disappeared on April 16, 1988 from a small town about 30 miles from where the sisters describe the abduction of the man. One has to wonder about the middle of April.

 

[PAXIMUS]

TY, TY wfgodot for posting this....Wow - I recall talk about the son having dinner w/ his dad -- but he wore a wire! I hope the state got some good info out of that...I can't help but believe there's very incriminating statements by Jr. -- which is one of the things that moved this case forward.

And that Ron G. --ugh...I wish he would STHU about his seeing "no evidence"....what evidence of child rape does he wanna see? Pictures of it? Medical records? How ignorant.

I wish they would quit quoting him.

Well with all due respect, as a criminal defense attorney I can tell you that evidence is rather important in a criminal proceeding and frankly there really isnt much to go on in this case.

Most of what you and others who are not trained in evidentiary matters see in this case--again with all due respect--is not really evidence at all and a quick motion to suppress on the grounds that the prejudicial effect out weighs the probative value will likely be filed and ruled on favorably for the defense, by the judge, which means the evidence will not be admitted at trial. What this means is that the evidence is prejudicial and serves only to inflame and bias a jury towards the defendant. Claims of buried jars, stabbing 300 pound men, sex slaves in the basement, sex in chicken coops and incest in church will not be admitted on the grounds that the predjudicial effect of such claims, that they will inflame the jury and cause unreasonable hysteria clearly out weigh the probative value of allowing them in to evidence and without those claims the judge will likely throw the case out because the state has no evidence or grounds on which to proceed to trial. This will all be determined in early hearings before trial begins and then there wouldnt be any trial at all and the Mohlers will be released without prejudice, meaning that the judge would allow the state to refile charges later if they did come up with some actual admissible evidence at a later date.


Frankly at this point in time in my professional opinion the state has no case and no evidence, or at least admissible evidence, to actually get a conviction.

Keep in mind that it doesnt matter if they are guilty or not all that matters is if the state can prove it and so far, again in my professional opinion and experience, I see nothing that makes me believe this case will get to trial and if it does we should see a quick acquittal with very little juror deliberation at all.

 

[Missizzy]

Pax--I think you might be selling us all a bit short, event though we didn't pass the bar. We are all strongly aware that the state has to make their case.

I happen to have personal knowledge of a young man who spent ten years behind bars despite the prejudicial effect of claims ie. sex in chicken coops and rapes in school bathrooms with class in session next door. You are correct that juries and judges can become inflamed and biased against hysteria. However, in the words of a judge whom I greatly admire:

"Was there, were there some implausible stories in here? Were there some bizarre statements? There's no question about it, there were. Does this Court ever hear implausible and bizarre stories? I wish the answer to that question would be no, but unfortunately, I do. I think the public would be very surprised if they spent a great deal of time in this Court or any other Court in this county or any other Court in this state to hear of what people do to one another. Things that most of us would never believe could be done, but unfortunately do happen every day." (The Hon. Mark Schiveley)

Let's just wait and see. I think there's much that has not been revealed.

 

[kbl8201]

sadly where cases like this have such bizarre claims (there was a case in san diego in the 90's where the kids claimed that while he was sexually abusing them he was sacraficig elephents and giraffes at the same time) its either all or nothing.....a jury believes everything or nothing

 

[PAXIMUS]

Pax--I think you might be selling us all a bit short, event though we didn't pass the bar. We are all strongly aware that the state has to make their case.

I happen to have personal knowledge of a young man who spent ten years behind bars despite the prejudicial effect of claims ie. sex in chicken coops and rapes in school bathrooms with class in session next door. You are correct that juries and judges can become inflamed and biased against hysteria. However, in the words of a judge whom I greatly admire:

"Was there, were there some implausible stories in here? Were there some bizarre statements? There's no question about it, there were. Does this Court ever hear implausible and bizarre stories? I wish the answer to that question would be no, but unfortunately, I do. I think the public would be very surprised if they spent a great deal of time in this Court or any other Court in this county or any other Court in this state to hear of what people do to one another. Things that most of us would never believe could be done, but unfortunately do happen every day." (The Hon. Mark Schiveley)

Let's just wait and see. I think there's much that has not been revealed.

No no, I think you are all very intelligent and well informed, it is just that most people do not understand the importance of probative value vs prejudicial effect when it comes to evidentiary matters and alot of what I see, in my opinion only, many judges are different in what they allow, but in my professional legal opinion most of the claims made, which is all the real evidence there is in this case, verbal claims, are highly inflammatory and prejudicial to the point that IF they are allowed in and I say they will not be, but if they are, it would be strong grounds for appeal and possible reversal of any convictions down the road because the claims made are so inflammatory that they will immediately create bias within the jury and prevent the accused from having a fair and impartial trial by his peers.

 

[Missizzy]

Thank you for the lovely compliment but I'll hold firm to my ground that while LE might have tipped their hat early (who knows why), they've completed this investigation very close to the vest. We all have no idea what evidence might be brought forth. we have yet to see these alleged victims and gauge their strength or consistency of disclosures on the witness stand. This will be an interesting one to watch.

 

[Missizzy]

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/18/1822204/trial-date-set-in-clay-county.html

Trial date set in Clay County for Mohler father


"Burrell Mohler Sr., one of six family members accused of molesting young relatives two decades ago, will be tried next year, a Clay County judge ruled Thursday.

Mohler, his sons Burrell Mohler Jr., Roland Mohler, David Mohler and Jared Mohler, and his brother, Darrel Mohler, face felony counts filed in Lafayette County. They are charged with raping and molesting young relatives over roughly a decade beginning in the mid-1980s.

Burrell Mohler Sr. received a venue change to Clay County. His trial is set for Feb. 22, 2011.

Darrell Mohler’s trial is scheduled for Sept. 13, also in Clay County."

 

[Texas Mist]

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/18/1822204/trial-date-set-in-clay-county.html

Trial date set in Clay County for Mohler father


"Burrell Mohler Sr., one of six family members accused of molesting young relatives two decades ago, will be tried next year, a Clay County judge ruled Thursday.

Mohler, his sons Burrell Mohler Jr., Roland Mohler, David Mohler and Jared Mohler, and his brother, Darrel Mohler, face felony counts filed in Lafayette County. They are charged with raping and molesting young relatives over roughly a decade beginning in the mid-1980s.

Burrell Mohler Sr. received a venue change to Clay County. His trial is set for Feb. 22, 2011.

Darrell Mohler’s trial is scheduled for Sept. 13, also in Clay County."

I wonder if they expect Darrel's trial to not take as long - and that's why his could be scheduled first? Or prep for trial won't take as long?

I feel bad for the kids having these trials hanging over their heads for so long.

 

[Missizzy]

ITA, Texas Mist. While I'm always glad to get a court date, it does seem like ages. When a victim gears themselves up to testify, it's hard to hold off and steel themselves to do it. I have such strong feelings, though, that these alleged victims are getting support and that LE is doing their job. Maybe, the one "up" side of this is that the emotions won't be quite as raw. Maybe they'll have told their stories enough times that they can do it without crumbling.

Do you happen to know, TM, if they do video-taped interviews on cases like this as they do with children? Those would certainly give a jury and a judge a sense of the raw emotions at the time of disclosure.

I noticed that Wintergreen was on the thread. Glad to see you. This case is taking forever, isn't it? I really have a feeling that we're going to hear some ugly ugly things. I don't know if you've been following it but we haven't learned much new info. LE was so forthcoming at first and then everything just dried up. We've heard nothing more about several key elements and that leaves open so many questions.

 

[Texas Mist]

ITA, Texas Mist. While I'm always glad to get a court date, it does seem like ages. When a victim gears themselves up to testify, it's hard to hold off and steel themselves to do it. I have such strong feelings, though, that these alleged victims are getting support and that LE is doing their job. Maybe, the one "up" side of this is that the emotions won't be quite as raw. Maybe they'll have told their stories enough times that they can do it without crumbling.

Do you happen to know, TM, if they do video-taped interviews on cases like this as they do with children? Those would certainly give a jury and a judge a sense of the raw emotions at the time of disclosure.

I noticed that Wintergreen was on the thread. Glad to see you. This case is taking forever, isn't it? I really have a feeling that we're going to hear some ugly ugly things. I don't know if you've been following it but we haven't learned much new info. LE was so forthcoming at first and then everything just dried up. We've heard nothing more about several key elements and that leaves open so many questions.

I dunno about video-taping the interviews....I wish I could remember the case but a prosecutor was disappointed that even a perp's interviews aren't recorded by the LEOs involved in her cases. C'mon -- it can't cost that much $$!!

While looking for more info on the Mohler monsters trials, I ran across this.....makes me wonder how many churches actually 'teach' their leaders how to cover up reports of abuse!!


Nurturing Naivete

Three women from different regions of the country have reported to me that in their LDS stakes, seminars for priesthood leaders actually discussed ways to avoid rather than comply with child abuse reporting laws. "I think that most Mormons are incredibly naive about the church's position on this issue—which is to protect the church and its interests, even at the expense of the victims," Kristy Sumner told me.

"My father is a bishop and when mandatory [child abuse] reporting laws were passed in the state in which he resides, the church held seminars for all local leaders. The purpose of these seminars was to instruct bishops, stake presidents and other leaders on ways to get around the new reporting laws. There were no seminars instructing these same leaders on what to do for the victims of abuse."

Pierce says that often bishops assume the responsibility to "fix" behavior problems themselves instead of referring members to appropriate professionals. "Abuse cannot be solved in a simple interview—it needs a multi-disciplinary approach. A bishop's calling does not train him to counsel members other than in spiritual matters," she notes.

"While many bishops do report child abuse, it is surprising how many bishops testify as character witnesses on behalf of the perpetrator. Bishops try to negotiate with attorneys to get lesser sentences and keep people's records clean so they can serve in church callings, go on missions, etc. In my experience, too often church leaders tend to align themselves with the abuser instead of the victim."

A California lawyer recently told me, "I had a stake president who wanted to testify in a sexual abuse case that had gone on for many years and involved many victims. He had been very careful not to talk to the perpetrator alone and not in a priest-penitent relationship and felt the privilege did not apply.

"The day he was going to sign the affidavit we had prepared together, he called and said that a "church attorney" told him he couldn't testify. He gave me the phone number and asked me to call the attorney.

"When I did, he said he believed the privilege belonged to the priest and the penitent. I disagreed and said that even if the privilege did apply in this case, the stake president/priest had waived the privilege. The church attorney said, No, I've instructed him not to do so.' I asked, You mean you have veto power over a stake president's inspiration and calling?' He said he didn't think of it quite that way. I replied, `I don't doubt that one bit.'"

http://www.affirmation.org/news/1996_05.shtml

The entire article is worth the read....and although dated 1996, it doesn't seem much has changed w/i the last decade+.

 

[reen]

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/18/1822204/trial-date-set-in-clay-county.html

<snip>

Burrell Mohler Sr. received a venue change to Clay County. His trial is set for Feb. 22, 2011."

Wow, BM Sr. must be soooo PO'd!! I am impatient but even to me that seems an incredibly long stretch of time.

 

[Texas Mist]

Next scheduled court dates:

Jared

MONDAY, APRIL 5, 2010 - 10:00 a.m.
DENNIS ALLEN ROLF
Plea/Trial Setting

David
04/05/2010 , 10:00:00 - Plea/Trial Setting

Roland **
04/05/2010 , 09:00:00 - Plea/Trial Setting

Jr. **
MONDAY, APRIL 5, 2010 - 11:00 a.m.
DENNIS ALLEN ROLF
Motion Hearing -- casenet is confusing but it looks like the hearing is re: Motion for Change of Judge / COV/ and possibly Motion for Special Setting on Defendant's Motion for Bill of Particulars

Sr. **
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 10, 2011 - 1:00 p.m.
LARRY DALE HARMAN
Pre-trial Conference

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2011 - 9:00 a.m.
LARRY DALE HARMAN
Jury Trial

Darrel
FRIDAY, AUGUST 27, 2010 - 9:00 a.m.
LARRY DALE HARMAN
Pre-trial Conference

MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2010 - 9:00 a.m.
LARRY DALE HARMAN
Jury Trial

ETA: checked Vinelink -- ** = still in jail
just something I like to keep up with