Moorers' Bond Hearing - #2

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  • #621
I agree, and if there was no DNA in the truck, she almost HAS to be in that lake!!!

Or a third vehicle was involved.

Or they had her drive her vehicle somewhere the deed was done and then they drove it back there to desert it (too far fetched?).

ETA: Just trying to think outside of the box since it seems the prosecution's theory isn't panning out, or at least needs more teeth. And if PTL was a rendezvous spot for SM and Heather, he would know it was very quiet that time of night which might have made them feel comfortable enough to come back and ditch the car, or have someone come to meet them there.
 
  • #622
I hope I'm wrong on this but before it's over, I'm guessing the charges against the Moorer's regarding Heather's disappearance will be dropped and there will be no trial. And IF there is a trial, they will both be found not guilty and then the lawsuits by the Moorers and Caisons will begin (for wrongful imprisonment, etc etc etc)
I in no way feel the Moorers are innocent but I just don't feel there is enough to convict them of what they have been charged with. I realize we do NOT know yet what all the State may have but I just get the feeling, after today's hearing, that it isn't much to amount to anything that is going to lead to a conviction. For example, it sounds as if the video/surveillance footage was a joke, there is NO DNA evidence, etc.

The grand jury thought thought there was enough evidence for a charge. Do you think that was based on the mistake of the Heather's dna in the truck? And why did LE say she was murdered at Peachtree Landing. I remember the death band on the strand of hair in the Casey Anthony case. Could that be what they have, a strand of hair with the death band? I so hope that they have substantial evidence.
 
  • #623
What time will SM be released? Anyone know?
 
  • #624
So are they camped outside the inmate exit Tammy came out? Dying to see who shows up for SM's release. It's 15 degrees here ("Real Feel" -3); hopefully it's a little warmer there. Is it a secure parking lot, does anyone know, or can anyone get into to see the release? As I'm typing I'm getting the feeling it must be secure. But, the press would have access I'm sure since we got the clear shots of TM yesterday.
 
  • #625
The grand jury thought thought there was enough evidence for a charge. Do you think that was based on the mistake of the Heather's dna in the truck? And why did LE say she was murdered at Peachtree Landing. I remember the death band on the strand of hair in the Casey Anthony case. Could that be what they have, a strand of hair with the death band? I so hope that they have substantial evidence.

I think it's possible the grand jury voted to proceed based on thinking the DNA was in the truck. I think it's also possible/probably TM and SM requested this new bond hearing with the bombshell of the monumental lab screw-up became known to them/their attorneys.
 
  • #626
http://www.counton2.com/story/27978...-am-for-couple-charged-in-heather-elvis-death



Sidney's attorney was allowed to talk for 35+ minutes without interruption by the judge. Tammy's attorney didn't speak nearly as long, but Truslow had already covered most of it. They each were given ample time to speak their piece, and they spent most of it disparaging the evidence.

Prosecution takes the mike, begins defending the evidence and the judge is suddenly, Whoa! I don't care about the evidence, the accused is innocent until proven guilty by the US Constitution, etc., etc., etc. Why didn't he stop the defense attorneys from discussing the evidence, if he didn't care about the evidence? Beats me, but that's why it sounded so bad by the time he announced his decision on bond.

Anyway, it's only attorney-speak. They're just doing their jobs. Take it for what it's worth.

If the prosecution can't bring it at trial, that's when I'll be flipping smooth out.

The prosecution begins - "I do have to clear up some of the things they said or I feel I would not be doing my job" - the judge replies "Please do"....She then says that means she will be getting into the facts....and that she'll try to keep it as brief as possible. Again the judge says "Please do..." She keeps talking and the judge is trying to say something more - the attorney next to her taps her arm because she was unaware he said anything -- then the judge says "excuse me" and says he doesn't mean to interrupt her -- then says "You have the floor now. Feel free. You state as much and as long as you feel necessary. Thank you. Thank you vey much I can hear your concern." (10:43)

She then begins and talks about the phone call from SM at the payphone, then the 90 phone calls made to Heathers phone, then the things said by TM. At 17:08 he interrupts her to ask what defendant she was talking about and she clarifies TM. At 18:07 she says she's not going thru all the evidence but "just the points Mr. Truslow made" - (18:25) The judge says "Let me interrupt you...." He then goes into talk about if her witnesses will even be allowed to testify..... He goes on to say "There's not question all of those things you talked about are indicia of somebody that might not be telling the truth but that's not for me to determine today because that's what a petit jury does. The will make a decision as to what - if they were being truthful in their responses. Um, it's helpful to me in determining wether or not a PR bond is important for sure. Because, well it is indicia that they might bot have been as forthright a they claimed they were" He apologizes again and at 21:51 she begins to speak again. He interrupts again at 22:18 to make a comment then she begins again at 22:35. She talks about the video of the vehicle and at 23:01 he interrupts to say "I'm not trying that today...." At 23:45 She begins again. She seems to realize the judge isn't going to allow her 'the floor' as he said - so she tries lumping all the points Mr. Truslow made together "Everything presented at the first bond hearing...." - she says she is able to back each thing up....except for one thing - "the deposit slip" -- she says she made everyone aware once they realized it wasn't what they initially thought it was. She goes on to say there has been NO CHANGE in circumstance since the initial bond hearing. At 25:08 the judge inserts he agrees there has been no change. At 25:33 he interrupts to ell her her this bond hearing is ALL about 'risk and flight' - he goes on and slides in another "mistake" made by the prosecution - and that was about the DNA evidence. At 29:48 she is able to begin again.

In my opinion - she then does a very poor job of talking about them and their flight risk. It was poorly worded - and this is why I believe they went into the bond hearing today thinking that the defense was going to have to prove a "change in circumstance" - and did very little to prepare for the 'risk and flight'. Part of why I believe this is because the judge had made it clear this hearing was not all about change in circumstance but yet she kept going back to that even after the judge made it clear by saying "that doesn't matter". (34:16) The judge interrupted again to talk about how bond isn't to keep someone in jail but to ensure the bond is high enough to have them return to court. He ends (37:59) with "Do you have any direct evidence". She says no and moves on to say the victims family would like to speak.

----------- (http://www.wmbfnews.com/category/235957/wmbf-live) Part two of the video from the hearing is where I got my times - they might not be exact - but are within a second or two -- just wanted to give approx time points.

-----
Is it me or did the judge do some double speak? He says in one breath the information she's presenting is for the jury (like the bond hearing wasn't the time or place) - but then in the last part says it IS important for PR bond - THEN kind of makes it clear he's not interested in hearing it (indicating the only reason she was addressing it was to imply change of circumstance and ignoring that he said there is importance in him knowing these things for a PR bond??

I said it earlier - I believe this judge had his mind made up before anyone spoke what he was going to do - and that just feels wrong. I also found it very interesting that he made the point of bringing up 'another mistake' (for lack of better way to put it) about the DNA. He wasn't letting HER talk about evidence in the case - but yet he brings that up? SMH
 
  • #627
I haven't gone back to re-listen to the hearing yesterday, I can't deal with that pontificating judge again, but I don't remember hearing the state even mention the DNA. I so wish the judge would have let her continue without his many interruptions.
 
  • #628
So are they camped outside the inmate exit Tammy came out? Dying to see who shows up for SM's release. It's 15 degrees here ("Real Feel" -3); hopefully it's a little warmer there. Is it a secure parking lot, does anyone know, or can anyone get into to see the release? As I'm typing I'm getting the feeling it must be secure. But, the press would have access I'm sure since we got the clear shots of TM yesterday.

It's an open parking lot. It's very cold (for here) this morning - a whopping 35 degrees. I know that won't seem cold to many of you - but that's freaking FREEZING to me!! :)
 
  • #629
I haven't gone back to re-listen the hearing yesterday, I can't deal with that pontificating judge again, but I don't remember hearing the state even mention the DNA. I so wish the judge would have let her continue without his many interruptions.

That's my point. The state didn't mention it --- but the judge sure did.
 
  • #630
That's my point. The state didn't mention it --- but the judge sure did.

You and I were posting at the same time, I just read your post. All those freaking interruptions by the judge! Thanks putting the times on them.
 
  • #631
Or a third vehicle was involved.

Or they had her drive her vehicle somewhere the deed was done and then they drove it back there to desert it (too far fetched?).

ETA: Just trying to think outside of the box since it seems the prosecution's theory isn't panning out, or at least needs more teeth. And if PTL was a rendezvous spot for SM and Heather, he would know it was very quiet that time of night which might have made them feel comfortable enough to come back and ditch the car, or have someone come to meet them there.

JMO but im thinking they have no evidence at all she is deceased.
Not in any car.
Or these 2 will not be home today!
 
  • #632
So why did LE stop the searches if there is no evidence she's deceased?
 
  • #633
I haven't gone back to re-listen to the hearing yesterday, I can't deal with that pontificating judge again, but I don't remember hearing the state even mention the DNA. I so wish the judge would have let her continue without his many interruptions.


Remember Belvin Perry? Casey Anthony case
Lance Ito the OJ case!
They all pontificate!
they all tell stories!
bla bla bla and all that but its not the judges fault these two went home. JMO
 
  • #634
The prosecution begins - "I do have to clear up some of the things they said or I feel I would not be doing my job" - the judge replies "Please do"....She then says that means she will be getting into the facts....and that she'll try to keep it as brief as possible. Again the judge says "Please do..." She keeps talking and the judge is trying to say something more - the attorney next to her taps her arm because she was unaware he said anything -- then the judge says "excuse me" and says he doesn't mean to interrupt her -- then says "You have the floor now. Feel free. You state as much and as long as you feel necessary. Thank you. Thank you vey much I can hear your concern." (10:43)

She then begins and talks about the phone call from SM at the payphone, then the 90 phone calls made to Heathers phone, then the things said by TM. At 17:08 he interrupts her to ask what defendant she was talking about and she clarifies TM. At 18:07 she says she's not going thru all the evidence but "just the points Mr. Truslow made" - (18:25) The judge says "Let me interrupt you...." He then goes into talk about if her witnesses will even be allowed to testify..... He goes on to say "There's not question all of those things you talked about are indicia of somebody that might not be telling the truth but that's not for me to determine today because that's what a petit jury does. The will make a decision as to what - if they were being truthful in their responses. Um, it's helpful to me in determining wether or not a PR bond is important for sure. Because, well it is indicia that they might bot have been as forthright a they claimed they were" He apologizes again and at 21:51 she begins to speak again. He interrupts again at 22:18 to make a comment then she begins again at 22:35. She talks about the video of the vehicle and at 23:01 he interrupts to say "I'm not trying that today...." At 23:45 She begins again. She seems to realize the judge isn't going to allow her 'the floor' as he said - so she tries lumping all the points Mr. Truslow made together "Everything presented at the first bond hearing...." - she says she is able to back each thing up....except for one thing - "the deposit slip" -- she says she made everyone aware once they realized it wasn't what they initially thought it was. She goes on to say there has been NO CHANGE in circumstance since the initial bond hearing. At 25:08 the judge inserts he agrees there has been no change. At 25:33 he interrupts to ell her her this bond hearing is ALL about 'risk and flight' - he goes on and slides in another "mistake" made by the prosecution - and that was about the DNA evidence. At 29:48 she is able to begin again.

In my opinion - she then does a very poor job of talking about them and their flight risk. It was poorly worded - and this is why I believe they went into the bond hearing today thinking that the defense was going to have to prove a "change in circumstance" - and did very little to prepare for the 'risk and flight'. Part of why I believe this is because the judge had made it clear this hearing was not all about change in circumstance but yet she kept going back to that even after the judge made it clear by saying "that doesn't matter". (34:16) The judge interrupted again to talk about how bond isn't to keep someone in jail but to ensure the bond is high enough to have them return to court. He ends (37:59) with "Do you have any direct evidence". She says no and moves on to say the victims family would like to speak.

----------- (http://www.wmbfnews.com/category/235957/wmbf-live) Part two of the video from the hearing is where I got my times - they might not be exact - but are within a second or two -- just wanted to give approx time points.

-----
Is it me or did the judge do some double speak? He says in one breath the information she's presenting is for the jury (like the bond hearing wasn't the time or place) - but then in the last part says it IS important for PR bond - THEN kind of makes it clear he's not interested in hearing it (indicating the only reason she was addressing it was to imply change of circumstance and ignoring that he said there is importance in him knowing these things for a PR bond??

I said it earlier - I believe this judge had his mind made up before anyone spoke what he was going to do - and that just feels wrong. I also found it very interesting that he made the point of bringing up 'another mistake' (for lack of better way to put it) about the DNA. He wasn't letting HER talk about evidence in the case - but yet he brings that up? SMH

Thank you so much for this post and I agree on all points.
 
  • #635
This judge is hinky. JMO:maddening:
 
  • #636
So why did LE stop the searches if there is no evidence she's deceased?

Exactly! Thanks³!

One of the reasons why I think the gag order is just one big smoke cloud to mask the lack of evidence.

If the state does not have any direct evidence then, they need to find it. Quick IMO. That's part of their job!

Furthermore, I think the community deserves it. At least some sort of announcement as to what they are going to do at this point. They can always ask the judge for permission to do so.

I certainly don't feel confident heading into trial at this point.

And, if it comes down to a directed verdict, everyone is going to freak out!!!
 
  • #637
The question I want to know is why would LE even believe SM would be so careless that he would still have DNA in his truck several months after HE went missing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think...because it does happen and SM is clearly NOT the sharpest tool in the shed. This guy tells LE that he hadn't talked to Heather since October and then was like...oh,you guys have phone records? In that case,I called her not long before her phone stopped pinging so I could tell her to stop calling me....even though she hadn't been calling me until I called her first. She went missing right after that? That sure is strange officer.
 
  • #638
So why did LE stop the searches if there is no evidence she's deceased?

It's not really clear they have stopped the searches. I mean do we really know for sure that is the case? Also in regards to "no evidence she's deceased", that is not their narrative. They are saying the circumstantial evidence tells them that she is deceased. I am not saying they are wrong. The circumstantial case is very compelling to me. The only thing I have the issue with is which one or both of them did it? I firmly believe one or both did this. The narrative starting with the phone call from the payphone by SM caught on video to the video of the truck contemporaneous to HE disappearing fits very well. I just don't know that they can get a consensus from a jury for a conviction.
 
  • #639
if I've said it once, I've said it 100 times... They need to search near this 'vacant' home SM will be residing in
 
  • #640
I wonder if SM will try to work while he's out on bond.

Sorry if I missed it, but where will TM be staying? Are they going to be staying together?

Yes, IIRC his attorney said SM has a brother who was willing to put him to work, since he has lost most/all of his construction contracts while in jail.
 
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