More than half teenage girls have been pregnant!

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat


"The report also said mothers at first refused to let the children undergo basic health screenings and that "many" teen girls declined to take pregnancy tests."

I'm not sure if the girls refused pregancy tests at first, or still refuse pregnancy tests. There could still be more pregnancies to be reported. If the girls had full exams, I am sure whether they are pregnant was already determined. Still, I am putting this out there as a possibility that they may not be sure whether there are more pregnancies.

 

[jubie]

The devil you know is always preferable to the devil you don't know.

100 years of being "bred" for obedience and compliance will create a group that never questions and always accepts the status quo. The women who don't "fit" leave and the ones that do fit stay and have 10 children. The FLDS gets rid of ANYONE who doesn't subjugate easily - members who "think" or "question" or "defy" are quickly shoved out. I am sure that personality wise the majority are very much followers and the "training" basically enhances this. Plus, I get the idea that IQ-Wise these folks are GENERALLY very "average" or low average - education beyond 8th grade is rare and a thirst for knowledge is PUNISHED, not encouraged. They don't even READ (there are only 10 books total approved to read), they watch no TV, no news, no movies, no DVD's - they hear no music, read no newspapers, magazines or books, they don't "create", they don't have art, nor are they exposed to any. The girls learn to garden, cook, sew, clean and care for children, the boys learn to farm and do construction. Their life as a long trail of obedience and following and working at menial, repetitive tasks. And the LEADERSHIP wants/demands it that way - they don't want followers who question them - and so they "remove" those who dissent or are smarter than the average.

I look at it and see a "Breeding Operation" - maybe a dairy farm, where girls are desired and boys are unwanted...(you only need one or two BULLS, after all). You breed selectively for the sweetest, most compliant, cooperative "high-producing" females. Soon you keep ONLY the cows that work best for your operation and you keep breeding back to the same lines to select for those same qualities. You get the cows pregnant very young and from then on you keep "milking" them until they can't produce any more. And the BOYS? Well they are used to increase your "cash flow" because they get sold out for "veal".

It just takes ONE WOMAN (or girl) from the YFZ Ranch to break the FLDS and perhaps there is still one there with the "right stuff". Even when you think you have bred very carefully for the perfect offspring, a mutation or a throw-back slips in and ruins everything. Somewhere in the FLDS history there is a smart pioneer woman with a constitution of steel and drive to push the envelope and forge new territory. A woman NOT accepting of the status quo OR the control of a man. I PRAY that that legacy lives strong in a woman from the YFZ and that she gets a revelation - not like the abominations Warren Jeffs is always blabbing about - but a REAL ONE - from GOD!

My Opinion

You know what? I'd like so much for that to happen, I just don't hold out much hope because of the history of women leaving and boys being disposed of. So sad. I wish we would hear some clear information of at least a few women choosing to leave FOR GOOD. I think the longer some of these young mothers are in foster care and are allowed to see an alternative to their lives at the YFZ ranch the better chance they have.

Jubie

 

[FlowerChild]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat


"The report also said mothers at first refused to let the children undergo basic health screenings and that "many" teen girls declined to take pregnancy tests."

I'm not sure if the girls refused pregancy tests at first, or still refuse pregnancy tests. There could still be more pregnancies to be reported. If the girls had full exams, I am sure whether they are pregnant was already determined. Still, I am putting this out there as a possibility that they may not be sure whether there are more pregnancies.

Well you can assume that ALL the teen girls who refused a pregnancy test have AT LEAST had sex - otherwise why would a pregnancy test matter? Not like it's a painful test and it isn't invasive.

Since we know that the FLDS keeps very strict fertility/cycle charts on each "married woman/girl" and that sex when they are fertile is a REQUIREMENT (and all sex stops the minute they aren't ovulating or become pregnant) I would say that means that if there haven't been pregnancy tests done on EVERY GIRL who has reached puberty, they'd better get with it - because I am assuming that a LOT of the girls are pregnant already (and KNOW they are) or could be pregnant. There is no need to refuse the tests otherwise. And I wouldn't limit it to those 14+ either - if the child is having her period (even if she is 11) she is old enough to be married and having babies in the FLDS World.

From what others have told us about the "special" girls at the YFZ Ranch (they are the "best" ones from ALL of FLDS) as SOON as the girl is having a period, she is married off ASAP....no matter what her age. These are the PRIZE SPECIMENS of FLDS Woman-hood - chosen from ALL the girls in the FLDS for their "sweetness" and family history and their compliant and obedient natures. The Prophet and Apostles chose the girls by hand for the YFZ Ranch - and to be married to the most faithful and highly regarded men of the "Priesthood" (including themselves, of course). These girls are the PRIZE STOCK at the show and you naturally want to get them bred and producing MORE future winners ASAP.

One visibly pregnant girl interviewed said she was 18 and had 2 children...her STEPDAUGHTER (age 8) ratted her out and said she was actually 16 and had 4 children (currently preggers with #5). That means even if she is almost 17 and 6 mos pregnant TODAY she was pregnant with her 1st child AT LEAST 46-48 months ago - when she was no older than 12...and she could have easily been only 11.

I hope CPS now realizes that just because the girls LOOK like little girls, if they are menstruating, they may be pregnant - even at age 11. :furious: Babies with babies - with the cooperation of every adult in their lives.

My Opinion

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

I udderly agree with you, FlowerChild. Bred just like a herd of Guernseys, for docility and productivity.

I'd really like to get hold of some of their records, and find out:

1. How old the women are at death.
2. What happens to post-menopausal women, if any make it to that age.
3. How many women die in childbirth, or from complications.
4. The true incidence of birth defects.

However, were the people sent to Texas selected to lack fumarase deficiency in their lineage, as well as being docile?

 

[LinasK]

I love the passion both you and FC post about the FLDS but on this note I sadly have to disagree because we've already seen women leave and try their best to get other women to leave and see how victimized they are but still almost all stay.


J.

That was just what I was thinking- Flora and Carolyn Jessop are just two examples who made it out, and they are in the minority. The other FLDS women are too fearful or brainwashed to willingly leave!

 

[Floh]

That was just what I was thinking- Flora and Carolyn Jessop are just two examples who made it out, and they are in the minority. The other FLDS women are too fearful or brainwashed to willingly leave!

I wonder what makes Flora and Carolyn Jessop different? it would be fascinating to know why they had the determination to run and succeed in their running.

 

[Leila]

The article says that the 40 women who went to the shelter are now back in the compound. I wish the state would discuss that. I am not sure if it is true, or just a FLDS claim. If they left, I hope the state investigates and tries to find out if they had received any threats or just why they did leave.

Mysteriew..................I question that statement too, since it came from a FLDS attorney, and hasn't been confirmed by anyone representing the state.

The FLDS has a vested interest in keeping up appearances that all their members are devoted followers. If even one woman went to a battered womens shelter, and remains there as of now, it's bad publicity for the FLDS.

 

[Floh]

One of Flora's poems





Utah's Justice

Living out at short creek
Fearing every day
Knowing that the laws are there
Protecting adults sick ways

Knowing that he's watching me
And waiting for a day
To pick up where he left off
The filthy games he plays

The threats and lies he uses
Are spoken by forked tongue
By every last adult in town
There is no truth, not one

My cries for help were frowned on
They said 'twas I who'd sinned
And when I was to take the stand
They said my mom'd be skinned

So now I wont be talking
Cause they locked me in this room
And now I know what he meant by,
Talking will spell your doom

Now I'm the one who's punished
And he walks around scott free
All because he's a chosen son
And satan's inside me

So now you know what happens
When a child turns to the law
and cries aloud for justice
in the great state of Utah


by: Flora Jessop August 2002

Dedicated to the 5 daughters of Dan Barlow Jr. who were molested by him, their father, then punished for being brave and having the courage to tell. This event happened in Arizona, but when it comes to crimes against these children it matters not which state they are in as they will receive no help from Utah or Arizona. Barlow, who is the son of Colorado City's Mayor, was tried and convicted in Kingman Arizona and received a sentence of 13 days and probation for his crimes.

http://helpthechildbrides.com/stories/poetry/poetry.htm

Two more at the above link.

And she's d*mned well talking NOW! yay, Flora!

 

[Leila]

The woman of the FLDS are NOT GOING TO LEAVE the FLDS while CPS has their kids. They have no money, no job and no HOME if they leave and the FLDS is certainly NOT going to get lawyers for a woman who has LEFT the FLDS. The FLDS is holding the Mothers Hostage with their kids - something they have done for 100 years. Sure, ANYONE can leave...you just don't get to take your kids with you when you do.

The FLDS Moms will stay with the FLDS - and frankly, I think that they will abandon their children before they will leave the only life they have ever known. they fear "Hell" more than they fear anything CPS or the LAW can do to them. The FLDS Leadership is going to use every resource they have to MAKE SURE not a single mother from YFZ "turns traitor". The woman may not realize it, but they actually hold all the power in this game - but I am also certain that "keeping sweet" does not allow a woman to leverage this advantage....so most of the women would NEVER think that way - it would never occur to them.

Ahh, it will just take ONE WOMAN with a spine - one woman who has a spark of independence that hasn't been beaten and "controlled" out of her. Just one woman who doesn't "feel sweet". One woman from the YFZ group could literally take down the whole FLDS single handedly.

My opinion

I think it's possible for a woman to leave the FLDS at this time and have a better chance of getting custody of their child/children.

Most battered womens shelters are more than just temporary shelters for women leaving an abusive relationship. In cases of spousal abuse, the woman is often a stay-at-home mother, who's trapped in a marriage with a controlling husband who is physically, mentally, and emotionally abusive. They fear for their lives, have no independent income to support themselves, and no place to go.

A battered womens shelter, helps these women get on their feet with a job, housing, and legal representation. Here locally, we have attorneys who donate their time one evening a week at the free legal clinic, and there's other community resources to help the women.

In the case of the FLDS, let's hope that at least one woman (I would hope for more than one) has the courage to leave. With help from community resources, she would be in a better position to regain custody of her child or children.

 

[Trino]

If these women have allowed their children to be physically abused and "married" to older men and have allowed their boys to be booted from the compound, IMO they will abandon their children to foster homes before they give up this religion, AKA a cult. Who's to say they aren't in the process of making more babies right now.

 

[Pepper]

If these women have allowed their children to be physically abused and "married" to older men and have allowed their boys to be booted from the compound, IMO they will abandon their children to foster homes before they give up this religion, AKA a cult. Who's to say they aren't in the process of making more babies right now.

And the more children they have the more they will think of them as a commodity that can be replaced. Look at how Merrill Jessop viewed his "imperfect" son when there were 26 other children.

 

[FlowerChild]

Most of us "regular women" cannot begin to understand the mindset of the FLDS woman - let me try and give a analogy

We ALL can agree that shooting oneself in the head with a large caliber pistol or drinking pure cyanide is 99.99% of the time going to leave you dead. We "know" this because we were TAUGHT this thru life - from the age of reasoning - our experiences and our education and what we saw and heard have convinced us that these are "deadly" things to do. We were "trained" into fearing death by our parents - who said "don't run with scissors" and "look both ways before crossing the street" and "don't touch the stove" and then later, we leaned about THINGS THAT MAKE YOU DEAD and why dead is a "bad thing" we wouldn't want to experience before our time. So now, as adults. there is NO WAY any of us is going to drink cyanide or shoot ourselves in the head unless we want to DIE. We didn't have to experience death ourselves to know it could happen - and certain behaviors made death an almost certain outcome.

Well what would we think if we moved to ABC Country - a place filled with beautiful, perfect people - and everyone lived to the ripe old age of 200 and never got sick a single day and had no worries. ABC Country looked like heaven on earth - a place where we knew no-one before we got there but where everyone looked the same as us and acted a lot like us EXCEPT they told us that the key to their perfect long life was they drank cyanide every day like a tonic. And that WE should also be drinking it - and chasing it with a good pistol shot to the head.

I can assure you that NONE OF US would start drinking cyanide with our morning OJ/Coffee or popping off a bullets to the head at happy hour. ...even if we didn't live to be 200 or got a head cold every week - we still wouldn't BELIEVE that we could drink cyanide or shoot ourselves in the head and LIVE. The people of ABC could tell us and show us and talk to us - but we STILL WOULDN'T TAKE THE CHANCE THAT THEY WERE WRONG - or liars. Because we had spent a lifetime believing that cyanide and gunshots to the head are DEADLY - even if we'd never personally experienced EITHER.

The people in the FLDS are in a strange country where everything looks the same as their country, but isn't the same - at least to THEM. They DO NOT believe anything we tell them because they BELIEVE DIFFERENTLY FROM US . Their experiences and life and learning are very different from ours. They can't go back and get different life experiences and different childhoods or different learning - they are a product of THEIR ENVIRONMENT - JUST LIKE WE ARE.

It doesn't seem logical or right FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE - but it is logical and "right" from THEIRS. They aren't different from us in any significant way - but their LIVES are like night to our DAY.

And THAT is why the FLDS women aren't going to shelters, trying to escape or acting the way WE WOULD.They believe we are the crazy ones telling them they should be drinking cyanide and shooting themselves in the head. And based on their experiences and lives, they aren't wrong in trusting the teachings that have proven TRUE FOR THEM. No sane person would act any differently than they ARE RIGHT NOW given the same environment and upbringing. We are SURE we are right...and they are equally sure THEY ARE.

My Opinion

 

[biggirl]

Flower Child (I love your name), you always hit the nail on the head. I love to read your posts and give a big YEAH!:blowkiss:

Does anyone know what happened to the "40" women who supposedly went to undisclosed shelters instead of back to the FDLS?? It is my sincere deepest hope that they stay in shelters and learn all about abuse and talk.

I pray this is the beginning of the end for these peoples way of life.

 

[mysteriew]

Yes, but I really do believe it just takes one. Right now, if a woman escapes she is there one day and gone the next. They can be told that she became a prostitute or hooked on drugs and that she is now too contaminated to come back. No one will ever tell them any different.

But if one woman manages to get out and stay out. Gets community support, a job and some independence and manages to stay out, they women would see her going to and from child visits. They could see she is ok. They might not talk to her, but they will watch her. And if they see she is ok, that she laughs and loves her kids. They will have to see a woman leaving and being successful. I think that could cause a change in how they look at leaving- at least in some of the women. Some of the women, yes, no matter what they see and hear, they will remain the same.

 

[Leila]

We've got a small number of miracles - Carolyn Jessop, Flora Jessop, Kathy Jo Nickolson, Laur Chapman, Debbie Palmer, Carolyn Cook, Jenny Larson, and Annette Jessop. These are some of the women whose stories about escaping the FLDS have been chronicled at the child brides website.

Despite their upbringing, they somehow knew that there was a better life outside the FLDS, and made their escape.

We have to hope that some of the women still in the FLDS will have that same inspiration.

 

[LinasK]

We've got a small number of miracles - Carolyn Jessop, Flora Jessop, Kathy Jo Nickolson, Laur Chapman, Debbie Palmer, Carolyn Cook, Jenny Larson, and Annette Jessop. These are some of the women whose stories about escaping the FLDS have been chronicled at the child brides website.

Despite their upbringing, they somehow knew that there was a better life outside the FLDS, and made their escape.

We have to hope that some of the women still in the FLDS will have that same inspiration.

There are a few more in the video with Heaven in the title. Names are escaping me at the moment...

Doris Hansen
another Hanson (Christine?)
Mary Mackert
Raquel Sturm
Susan Ray Schmidt

Add Elaine Jeffs, Laurie Allen, Elissa Wall,Ruth Stubbs, and the two Fawn's to the list of those women who have escaped.