Motivation Report has been released

[blue22]

The murder of Meredith Kercher will always be a true story. It will always be an international story because a British student was murdered in Italy.

The murderers are from Italy, the USA, and the Ivory Coast. The murderers do not make it a "super story". If the murderers were all born in Italy, it would still be an international story. The murderers are the people that should be forever silenced and forgotten.

I wasn't stating anything about it not being a story, or being important to the world. It would have been a murder that the world knew about. I am saying what made it a worldwide, sensational tabloid, infamous type of story....is the whole satanic sex crime angle involving AK in the beginning. An angle that was clearly completely manufactured. I think they wanted to be the ones to solve the crime and jail the pretty American white girl, who killed Meredith in a satanic sexual act gone wrong.

There is no way this story would have taken on the life it did, with two black male suspects. I don't say that, to minimize the crime or the devastation of Meridith's murder and loss.

 

[BritsKate]

i think this theory falls apart after one considers the crimes (escalation theory anyone?!) attributed to RG in the weeks leading up to the murder and the fact police never properly investigated him, much less charged him.

http://masseireport.wordpress.com/contents/rudy-hermann-guede/

I don't quite understand this. It's not a theory...it's just that if investigators were indeed looking to specifically fit evidence to a suspect, it would seem most likely that they would choose to target less 'sympathetic' suspects. I really can't speak to why Guede wasn't arrested prior, if there were chargeable offences, as I haven't studied Italian statutes.

Nailing one or two non-caucasian immigrants for murder would have been a lot less hassle with far fewer headlines. Not nearly such a diplomatic relations headache.

To me, it's only an international super story with AK involved. For the exact reason you state. Two black guys murdering a girl isn't a story. It seems like that's what they wanted from the beginning.

It would be an international story regardless because the victim is British. I can't for the life of me understand why Italy would desire either a trial or a super story that would simply lead to bad press and consternation of many Americans. It's rather led to the entire Italian justice system being put on trial, on a very global stage. Tourism is an absolute necessity for the Italian economy. Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, in which case, my apologies.

 

[blue22]

I don't quite understand this. It's not a theory...it's just that if investigators were indeed looking to specifically fit evidence to a suspect, it would seem most likely that they would choose to target less 'sympathetic' suspects. I really can't speak to why Guede wasn't arrested prior, if there were chargeable offences, as I haven't studied Italian statutes.

Nailing one or two non-caucasian immigrants for murder would have been a lot less hassle with far fewer headlines. Not nearly such a diplomatic relations headache.


It would be an international story regardless because the victim is British. I can't for the life of me understand why Italy would desire either a trial or a super story that would simply lead to bad press and consternation of many Americans. It's rather led to the entire Italian justice system being put on trial, on a very global stage. Tourism is an absolute necessity for the Italian economy. Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, in which case, my apologies.

They certainly couldn't have known their justice system would be a laughed at. In fact, they must have thought by solving a sensational case so quickly, they would be respected. Wouldn't any law enforcement or justice agency, think solving a case like this swiftly, would lead to people respecting them and feeling safe?

 

[otto]

Yes, racism and xenephobia does exist in Europe, but you must also recognize that both Amanda and Raffaele were considered outsiders in Perugia. Amanda was American and Raffaele was from a different region of Italy.

We know that the investigators considered Amanda a suspect before the evidence had been analyzed because they bragged about solving the case entirely by psychological methods.

http://youtu.be/sWkZPWRS3N0

Knox was a suspect shortly after the scene was analyzed for a very good reason.

The break-in was staged. This meant that someone with a key murdered Meredith and then staged the scene to appear like a break in. Rather than debate this point, we can use this to follow this line of reasoning that police followed. The break in was staged. Of the four persons with keys, one was murdered and two were accounted for. The fourth roommate, Knox, was questioned. She provided nothing but lies until police learned that she was lying. At that point, she boldly stated that a black man murdered Meredith.

 

[BritsKate]

Yes, racism and xenephobia does exist in Europe, but you must also recognize that both Amanda and Raffaele were considered outsiders in Perugia. Amanda was American and Raffaele was from a different region of Italy.

We know that the investigators considered Amanda a suspect before the evidence had been analyzed because they bragged about solving the case entirely by psychological methods.

http://youtu.be/sWkZPWRS3N0

No, I'm referring specifically to colour and colour alone. Being American, Amanda initially would very likely have been like everyone's favourite toy - a novelty. People would have wanted to get close to her and see if Americans are really what they seem like on TV and in movies. There is an automatic curiosity living abroad which is actually quite endearing. I can't say there isn't anti-Americanism abroad because really there is - but it's limited, isolated, and usually borne of ignorance rather than malice.

I can't speak to regional differences in Italy since I don't live there. The EU has open borders and people move about pretty regularly. Though he wasn't native to Perugia I really think it's a lot less likely he'd experience what someone from a different country, being another race, would experience.

I don't believe a 32 second clip could possibly encompass their entire investigation but I may be wrong.

JMO

 

[otto]

I wasn't stating anything about it not being a story, or being important to the world. It would have been a murder that the world knew about. I am saying what made it a worldwide, sensational tabloid, infamous type of story....is the whole satanic sex crime angle involving AK in the beginning. An angle that was clearly completely manufactured. I think they wanted to be the ones to solve the crime and jail the pretty American white girl, who killed Meredith in a satanic sexual act gone wrong.

There is no way this story would have taken on the life it did, with two black male suspects. I don't say that, to minimize the crime or the devastation of Meridith's murder and loss.

We can thank American author Douglas Preston, the man with a grudge against an Italian prosecutor, for the crazy comments about that Italian prosecutor. We can thank the US media for using those crazy comments as a springboard for painting the Italian justice system as backwards, medieval, and unjust. I'm not aware of any pretty white girls from the US having involvement in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

 

[blue22]

We can thank American author Douglas Preston, the man with a grudge against an Italian prosecutor, for the crazy comments about that Italian prosecutor. We can thank the US media for using those crazy comments as a springboard for painting the Italian justice system as backwards, medieval, and unjust. I'm not aware of any pretty white girls from the US having involvement in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

I'm not defending America.

IMO, it's pretty clear that they immediately pounced on a sex crime gone wrong theory with AK and ran with it. They did that before they even manufactured the evidence for this. THAT is what makes it a joke. The prosecutor trying to present this case as a satanic sex crime was a joke.

The US is not the only country that thought his presentation and her conviction in that trial was a joke. She is a US citizen, so obviously our country is going to fight for her innocence, if they believe she is. As far as the writer you mention, I don't read anything by him.

 

[otto]

They certainly couldn't have known their justice system would be a laughed at. In fact, they must have thought by solving a sensational case so quickly, they would be respected. Wouldn't any law enforcement or justice agency, think solving a case like this swiftly, would lead to people respecting them and feeling safe?

This has always been about Meredith Kercher. That is what the Italian justice system has been concerned with. It has nothing to do with the United States, or perceptions.

 

[BritsKate]

They certainly couldn't have known their justice system would be a laughed at. In fact, they must have thought by solving a sensational case so quickly, they would be respected. Wouldn't any law enforcement or justice agency, think solving a case like this swiftly, would lead to people respecting them and feeling safe?

I think had Guede or Lumumba been the only suspects it wouldn't have become a sensational story in the first place. Sadly, most of the British press has been about Knox and Sollecito, not Meredith, so it's logical to assume this case, with only Lumumba and Guede as suspects, would have died a quick death in the press. The headlines here have not focused on a motive, much less some silly satanic thingamabob. At least not the ones I've paid attention to...there are papers here I won't go near, usually very sensational tabloids.

Regarding my bold, I've lived abroad for many years now and have had to become accustomed to the American way not being the global way. The British justice system is very foreign to the American one I grew up knowing. I do not for a moment believe Italy's justice system deserves ridicule or global admonishment on the basis of any one case. Every country gets cases wrong (the very reason for Supreme Courts), every country has areas which could be improved, every country has different ideals of reform and punishment. I do have to say, and this is part of what forms my opinion, that every single international case I have followed in a non-English speaking country there have been allegations of corruption and ineptitude. Every case. There may be basis for it, there may not be, but the very fact it happens in every case, in many different countries, leaves me hesitant to accept it on its face. I believe much is lost in translation.

 

[aa9511]

To my mind, and to be really bluntly honest, if investigators were really trying to make evidence fit a suspect then Lumumba and Guede would likely have been the only ones charged and convicted. Not a caucasian American woman and certainly not a caucasian Italian man. For all its advancement, racism and xenophobia still very much abound in Europe.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for stating this, IMO, very obvious point.

If prosecutors were so scared to admit they made a mistake....wth did they let Lumumba go in the first place?

Would it be so hard for people to believe Rudy and Patrick, two Black males, were drugged/boozed up and went to the girls' residence hoping to party with them....when they got there only Meredith was home. They were off their minds on drugs and did this together - btw, it would also account for the "multiple assailants" while conveniently ignoring the "tricky" evidence such as staged burglary and clean-up. Everyone would believe that story.

Believe me, I had followed cases here on Websleuths where the juries in the cases deliberate 14,17,20+ hours for White defendants, and come back with Guilty verdict in less than 2 or sometimes even 1 hour for Black defendants. I have seen this with my own eyes following these cases.

JMO.

 

[blue22]

This has always been about Meredith Kercher. That is what the Italian justice system has been concerned with. It has nothing to do with the United States, or perceptions.

Umm...didn't say it had anything to do with the US. ????

A little confused by how you're interpreting my comment.

ETA: I don't think they were only concerned with Meridith. They created an insanely out there motive for a reason.

 

[Karmady]

Gimbel seems to have the expectation that, during a murder investigation, investigators must commit to their first theory and they must not modify that theory at any time. For example, he states that the size 37 shoe print in the bedroom was first compared to Sollecito. Because of this, police cannot then compare the print to Knox. If they do compare the print to another person and conclude that the print belongs to another person, they must be bumbling fools.

Who is the bumbling fool ... the author or the investigators?

Seems to me that if you have a footprint at a crime scene and a short list of possible suspects who may have left it, the print should be compared to any of them who could reasonably possibly have left the print. If that had not been done, I'd agree with the "bumbling" characterization.

 

[otto]

I'm not defending America.

IMO, it's pretty clear that they immediately pounced on a sex crime gone wrong theory with AK and ran with it. They did that before they even manufactured the evidence for this. THAT is what makes it a joke. The prosecutor trying to present this case as a satanic sex crime was a joke.

The US is not the only country that thought his presentation and her conviction in that trial was a joke. She is a US citizen, so obviously our country is going to fight for her innocence, if they believe she is. As far as the writer you mention, I don't read anything by him.

I believe that police pounced on the staged break-in theory. It was an author from the US that was fixated on the occult theories.

 

[otto]

I think had Guede or Lumumba been the only suspects it wouldn't have become a sensational story in the first place. Sadly, most of the British press has been about Knox and Sollecito, not Meredith, so it's logical to assume this case, with only Lumumba and Guede as suspects, would have died a quick death in the press. The headlines here have not focused on a motive, much less some silly satanic thingamabob. At least not the ones I've paid attention to...there are papers here I won't go near, usually very sensational tabloids.

Regarding my bold, I've lived abroad for many years now and have had to become accustomed to the American way not being the global way. The British justice system is very foreign to the American one I grew up knowing. I do not for a moment believe Italy's justice system deserves ridicule or global admonishment on the basis of any one case. Every country gets cases wrong (the very reason for Supreme Courts), every country has areas which could be improved, every country has different ideals of reform and punishment. I do have to say, and this is part of what forms my opinion, that every single international case I have followed in a non-English speaking country there have been allegations of corruption and ineptitude. Every case. There may be basis for it, there may not be, but the very fact it happens in every case, in many different countries, leaves me hesitant to accept it on its face. I believe much is lost in translation.

I disagree that when a British woman is murdered abroad, it is all about the suspects. This case was always about Meredith, regardless of the eye and hair colour of the suspects. When Joanna Yeates vanished, people from around the world were interested in seeing justice even though the victim was British and the convicted man was Dutch.

It's possible that people from the US would have little interest, but that doesn't mean that the case is not in the headlines.

 

[blue22]

I believe that police pounced on the staged break-in theory. It was an author from the US that was fixated on the occult theories.

It doesn't matter what the author said, I don't even care about it. The prosecutor is the one who created it. The prospector attempted t present this crime as a satanic sex crime gone wrong. To which, there was absolutely no evidence of. When that was not allowed, he changed it to just a sex game gone wrong.

 

[Amber29]

It doesn't matter what the author said, I don't even care about it. The prosecutor is the one who created it. The prospector attempted t present this crime as a satanic sex crime gone wrong. To which, there was absolutely no evidence of. When that was not allowed, he changed it to just a sex game gone wrong.

At this point Mignini has not prosecuted this case in a long while, there really is no need to continue discussing or blaming Mignini for Amanda being found guilty. Multiple prosecutors have handled this case, the latest being Galati and Crini. A satonic sex motive was never presented to Nencini. It has no bearings on his motivations.

 

[blue22]

At this point Mignini has not prosecuted this case in a long while, there really is no need to continue discussing or blaming Mignini for Amanda being found guilty. Multiple prosecutors have handled this case, the latest being Galati. A satonic sex motive was never presented to Nencini. It has no bearings on his motivations.

Well, I am discussing the flaws in the case. The ever changing motives they claim, do have bearing. How many have there been now? They are changing to motives, to convict people. I actually have no definitive belief as to whether she is guilty or innocent. I simply believe no matter who has prosecuted, did not prove begin doubt. There is so much doubt, so much problems with the evidence, so many problems with creating a motive that will stick. The fact that they have had to change the story of how and why Meredith was murdered, absolutely is important.

 

[Amber29]

Well, I am discussing the flaws in the case. The ever changing motives they claim, do have bearing. How many have there been now? They are changing to motives, to convict people. I actually have no definitive belief as to whether she is guilty or innocent. I simply believe no matter who has prosecuted, did not prove begin doubt. There is so much doubt, so much problems with the evidence, so many problems with creating a motive that will stick. The fact that they have had to change the story of how and why Meredith was murdered, absolutely is important.

Yes motives are important but they don't have to be proven.

What Nencini has said is what I have believed all along. I'm glad it's finally been said. Murders happen for reasons we will never truly understand everyday. I don't always agree with a prosecutors theory in cases I follow but I can still agree the person is guilty. That's why motive isn't as important IMO

 

[BritsKate]

I disagree that when a British woman is murdered abroad, it is all about the suspects. This case was always about Meredith, regardless of the eye and hair colour of the suspects. When Joanna Yeates vanished, people from around the world were interested in seeing justice even though the victim was British and the convicted man was Dutch.

It's possible that people from the US would have little interest, but that doesn't mean that the case is not in the headlines.

RBBM

That's not what I meant. This case and these suspects - I feel far more coverage is granted to Knox and Sollecito than to Meredith. Absolutely she should be the sole focus and justice for her and those who loved her should be paramount. Perhaps because of a PR campaign or the nationalities or races of convicted murderers involved it just doesn't seem to be about Meredith but rather if Amanda Knox is guilty. I don't think we'd see the same if the sole convicted murderer was Guede or even Sollecito - for whatever reason or perhaps a combination of factors. I'm not stating her murder isn't important or that media wouldn't report on it...I just think it would look very different. Here's an example: BBC doc isn't titled 'The Murder of Meredith Kercher' or 'British Student Tragically Killed Studying Abroad' or even just 'Mez'...it's titled 'Is Amanda Knox Guilty?'.

"Mez has been forgotten in all of this. The media photos aren't really of her. There's not a lot about what actually happened in the beginning. So it is very difficult to keep her memory alive in all of this," Stephanie Kercher, Meredith's sister, says in a BBC documentary that is set to be broadcast Monday evening in the United Kingdom.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/17/meredith-kercher-family-amanda-knox/5547553/

JMO

 

[Amber29]

RBBM

That's not what I meant. This case and these suspects - I feel far more coverage is granted to Knox and Sollecito than to Meredith. Absolutely she should be the sole focus and justice for her and those who loved her should be paramount. Perhaps because of a PR campaign or the nationalities or races of convicted murderers involved it just doesn't seem to be about Meredith but rather if Amanda Knox is guilty. I don't think we'd see the same if the sole convicted murderer was Guede or even Sollecito - for whatever reason or perhaps a combination of factors. I'm not stating her murder isn't important or that media wouldn't report on it...I just think it would look very different. Here's an example: BBC doc isn't titled 'The Murder of Meredith Kercher' or 'British Student Tragically Killed Studying Abroad' or even just 'Mez'...it's titled 'Is Amanda Knox Guilty?'.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/17/meredith-kercher-family-amanda-knox/5547553/

JMO

I completely agree with you. It should've always been about Meredith, unfortunately a PR firm IMO is responsible for making AK the victim. Many people that know of Amanda Knox don't even know Meredith Kerchers name at this point. It's a sad fact, Meredith's name should never be forgotten.