Motive For Murder

[Roy23]

You guys should read the article on CNN about RC. It sure paints him as a really good guy. Not the kind of stuff that we have been reading in the past about him. Maybe he was an animal lover after all.

 

[Gene]

Gene,

Another defense is going to be that he was framed. The fact that the crime scene was not sealed for 5 days could be a major point that they make. I could go on and on about this. Don't get me wrong, it won't work.

Yes, but it will be hard to explain away the swipe cards...they documented that he was with her when she died and he was in the room where her body was hidden.

Unless he can claim (and prove) someone took it and put it back without his knowing about it....

 

[f_stills]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/accused-annie-le-murderer-ray-clark/Story?id=8602492&page=2

Sources tell ABC News there were e-mails or text messages between Clark and Le regarding the cleanliness of the lab. Clark's job included cleaning the mice cages in the lab, and in his email to Le he complained that she had left the cages dirty, sources said.

 

[Emma Peel]

I’ve postulated this several times before, but now that we’re certain there was no sexual assault, and LE and Yale are calling it “workplace violence”, I thought I’d revisit a previous discussion on motive from when Eyes4crime asked 2 key questions earlier in this thread:

1) What was it about Annie (that was different than the other grad students/co-workers)?
2) What happened recently in RC’s life that would make him full of such rage?

**********************

1) What was different about Annie (from all the grad students that RC may have resented and worked with) was that she was getting married.

Now, think like a bride: you’re trying to work full time - you have a commuter engagement and a wedding out of the town you work in – tomorrow your relatives are arriving in NY and you’re trying to get the heck out of New Haven. You’ve been running back and forth to NY for several weeks, getting ready for the wedding, you’ve overlooked a few little things such as your mice protocols. You get a call about the mice, grab your notebook(s) and maybe even the protocol manual and run over to meet the lab staff.

So, she went to meet him at his request, conciliatory but, perhaps full of excuses about how busy she’d been with all the wedding stuff. (If she knows from workplace chatter that RC is getting married to his fiancé who also works at the lab, she might even bring that up.) Basically Annie might be just trying to apologize and be friendly and cooperative. But, the fact of the matter is she’s leaving town (again) for the wedding. The wedding is so important, work comes 2nd and everyone understands that. Perhaps she needs to arrange things with him so she can abandon the mice again. And again, the mice – RC’s world or work - comes in 2nd to the wedding.



2) Now, think like RC, if that’s possible. RC is proud of his work, and his role as enforcer of the rules and protocols about the lab animals. And yes, he’s controlling, and at work, the protocol is the thing that he’s allowed to use to control, and he’s serious about it. He has to basically train the Grad students in protocols, as they come in untrained. Grad students are annoying, sloppy, disrespectful, and arrogant, and he resnts them, but, that’s not new. However, that resentment builds up…

But, on top of that, AND what is different & HAS changed this year for RC is the live-in-girlfriend turned fiancé, who’s got wedding stuff up on myspace more than a year before the wedding is to occur…who he’s living together with for financial reasons (?) but now he’s engaged. Maybe it’s stressful for RC – the engagement, the wedding. Maybe the chatter at home (and at work – fiancé works with him) about his own wedding stuff is too much for him. Maybe he had a fight with his fiancé about wedding things…

As we are told time & again, strangulation is a very personal murder. The act comes from a place of very personal rage, (normally against a family member/love interest). I guess I can see it being as simple as that. Something about Annie that morning triggered a raging personal attack. The twist here is that RC may not have been strangling Annie in his mind. In his mind, he may have been strangling his other problems – problems Annie was representing to him at that moment.

**********************

All that being said, THEY BEST HAVE IRREFUTABLE DNA EVIDENCE under Annie’s fingernails that match RC. That would make all of this sooooo much easier, because, let’s face it…who kills a co-worker over a dirty mouse cage? It’s almost unfathomable. Even with the out-of-normal swipe pattern, all that shows is RC saw her alive that day in the room she was killed in. (Annie could have opened the door for her non-RC killer – no swipe required.) Without DNA, it’s a really hard story to sell.

(Heck, I’ve been trying to sell it here for days, and hardly anyone one buys it!):crazy:

That’s all I got locked up in my noggin at the moment...except for my relief to wake up and hear LE’s got RC locked up (finally!).

 

['Ailina]

Excellent post, Emma. Agreed, agreed. Especially the part about RC "strangling his problems." Fully agreed.

 

[Trino]

What is this supposed to mean?

"They work in the same building, passed in the hallways," New Haven Police Chief James Lewis said of Le and Clark. "Anything beyond that, I won't talk about."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/raymond.clark.profile/index.html

 

[masscph]

What is this supposed to mean?

"They work in the same building, passed in the hallways," New Haven Police Chief James Lewis said of Le and Clark. "Anything beyond that, I won't talk about."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/raymond.clark.profile/index.html

Dont think you should put anything into that other than he dont want to say anything while building up the case.

Since he texted her on the day, and he had emailed her previously, its obvious more than "working in the same building" - ofcourse.

 

[ilovekitties]

I’ve postulated this several times before, but now that we’re certain there was no sexual assault, and LE and Yale are calling it “workplace violence”, I thought I’d revisit a previous discussion on motive from when Eyes4crime asked 2 key questions earlier in this thread:

1) What was it about Annie (that was different than the other grad students/co-workers)?
2) What happened recently in RC’s life that would make him full of such rage?

**********************

1) What was different about Annie (from all the grad students that RC may have resented and worked with) was that she was getting married.

Now, think like a bride: you’re trying to work full time - you have a commuter engagement and a wedding out of the town you work in – tomorrow your relatives are arriving in NY and you’re trying to get the heck out of New Haven. You’ve been running back and forth to NY for several weeks, getting ready for the wedding, you’ve overlooked a few little things such as your mice protocols.

So, she went to meet him at his request, conciliatory but, perhaps full of excuses about how busy she’d been with all the wedding stuff. (If she knows from workplace chatter that RC is getting married to his fiancé who also works at the lab, she might even bring that up.) Basically Annie might be just trying to apologize and be friendly and cooperative. But, the fact of the matter is she’s leaving town (again) for the wedding. The wedding is so important, work comes 2nd and everyone understands that. Perhaps she needs to arrange things with him so she can abandon the mice again. And again, the mice – RC’s world or work - comes in 2nd to the wedding.



2) Now, think like RC, if that’s possible. RC is proud of his work, and his role as enforcer of the rules and protocols about the lab animals. And yes, he’s controlling, and at work, the protocol is the thing that he’s allowed to use to control, and he’s serious about it. He has to basically train the Grad students in protocols, as they come in untrained. Grad students are annoying, sloppy, disrespectful, and arrogant, and he resnts them, but, that’s not new. However, that resentment builds up…

But, on top of that, AND what is different & HAS changed this year for RC is the live-in-girlfriend turned fiancé, who’s got wedding stuff up on myspace more than a year before the wedding is to occur…who he’s living together with for financial reasons (?) but now he’s engaged. Maybe it’s stressful for RC – the engagement, the wedding. Maybe the chatter at home (and at work – fiancé works with him) about his own wedding stuff is too much for him. Maybe he had a fight with his fiancé about wedding things…

As we are told time & again, strangulation is a very personal murder. The act comes from a place of very personal rage, (normally against a family member/love interest). I guess I can see it being as simple as that. Something about Annie that morning triggered a raging personal attack. The twist here is that RC may not have been strangling Annie in his mind. In his mind, he may have been strangling his other problems – problems Annie was representing to him at that moment.

**********************

All that being said, THEY BEST HAVE IRREFUTABLE DNA EVIDENCE under Annie’s fingernails that match RC. That would make all of this sooooo much easier, because, let’s face it…who kills a co-worker over a dirty mouse cage? It’s almost unfathomable. Even with the out-of-normal swipe pattern, all that shows is RC saw her alive that day in the room she was killed in. (Annie could have opened the door for her non-RC killer – no swipe required.) Without DNA, it’s a really hard story to sell.

(Heck, I’ve been trying to sell it here for days, and hardly anyone one buys it!):crazy:

That’s all I got locked up in my noggin at the moment...except for my relief to wake up and hear LE’s got RC locked up (finally!).

and also -and I take this with a grain of salt because you can't believe everything you hear - I have read that she has a history of being condescending to lab techs, and she is very manipulative and cut throat with her work. again, who knows if this is true, but if she acted like this towards him and he was laready unstable, that could explain why he snapped.

 

[Very Interesting]

What is this supposed to mean?

"They work in the same building, passed in the hallways," New Haven Police Chief James Lewis said of Le and Clark. "Anything beyond that, I won't talk about."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/raymond.clark.profile/index.html

Just the LE contradicting themselves, like they have been for the past 10 days

 

[tksa]

Perhaps she needs to arrange things with him so she can abandon the mice again. And again, the mice – RC’s world or work - comes in 2nd to the wedding.

Note that taking care of the mice was RC's job. Cleaning the cages was also RC's job. So if Annie took off and abandoned the mice to RC for a month, that would actually not impact RC at all, and would actually give him less work.

In fact, I'm not sure exactly what RC could be complaining about when he sent e-mail about dirty cages/mice. The only kind of complaint that would seem reasonable would be if somehow Annie had made the cages needlessly, unusually dirty. Maybe someone more familiar with mouse-based research could speculate.

 

[ges79]

and also -and I take this with a grain of salt because you can't believe everything you hear - I have read that she has a history of being condescending to lab techs, and she is very manipulative and cut throat with her work. again, who knows if this is true, but if she acted like this towards him and he was laready unstable, that could explain why he snapped.

I'm way behind in reading all the threads, but can you point me to your sources (links to stories) about her treating lab techs disrespectfully? TIA

 

[bogeygal]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090917/ap_on_re_us/us_yale_killing

Don't know if this has been posted yet.

AP Source: Yale Suspect's Work Attitude Examined

 

[Emma Peel]

Note that taking care of the mice was RC's job. Cleaning the cages was also RC's job. So if Annie took off and abandoned the mice to RC for a month, that would actually not impact RC at all, and would actually give him less work.

In fact, I'm not sure exactly what RC could be complaining about when he sent e-mail about dirty cages/mice. The only kind of complaint that would seem reasonable would be if somehow Annie had made the cages needlessly, unusually dirty. Maybe someone more familiar with mouse-based research could speculate.

FYI - Re your sentence that I bolded. If you search for the poster labrat's excellent & detailed entries from yesterday (or any over the past week) about lab protocols, you will see that the issue of keeping cages clean does involve quite a bit of interaction between the lower-level researchers, as well as staff such as RC. Responsibilities of one affect the other - it's a problem for both parties. And the grad students don't always know and/or adhere to the protocols as well as the lab staff members who maintain the mice know that they should. These conversations/discussions/issues over protocols, apparently, are very very common.

 

['Ailina]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090917/ap_on_re_us/us_yale_killing

Don't know if this has been posted yet.

AP Source: Yale Suspect's Work Attitude Examined

This totally fits into my line of thinking.

 

[ilovekitties]

I'm way behind in reading all the threads, but can you point me to your sources (links to stories) about her treating lab techs disrespectfully? TIA

it was on this page: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090916195134AA62Bd3, but I just checked and the entry was taken off. A girl named "Linda" claimed she worked with her and said she was condescending to lab techs and manipulative. again, not exactly a reputable source, but that's what it said. wonder why they took her entry off??

 

[Avery]

This totally fits into my line of thinking.

I'm right there with ya!!

 

[Roy23]

Yale murder suspect called nice, smart per article on CNN

 

[masscph]

it was on this page: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090916195134AA62Bd3, but I just checked and the entry was taken off. A girl named "Linda" claimed she worked with her and said she was condescending to lab techs and manipulative. again, not exactly a reputable source, but that's what it said. wonder why they took her entry off??

Alot of people got offended by what she wrote, and i understand them.

Got the complete post she wrote, but dont like to post it, its just an outright attack on her person.

 

['Ailina]

it was on this page: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090916195134AA62Bd3, but I just checked and the entry was taken off. A girl named "Linda" claimed she worked with her and said she was condescending to lab techs and manipulative. again, not exactly a reputable source, but that's what it said. wonder why they took her entry off??

Yeah, I would stay away from Yahoo Answers for WS postings. Any Joe Schmoe can post whatever they want there. I'd stick to more reputable sources.

 

[MLE]

Yale murder suspect called nice, smart per article on CNN

They're probably right, in some ways. This guy reminds me so much of a former roommate of mine. He was very bright and a very nice guy in a lot of ways, but he was definitely mentally ill, which was probably an inherited chemical imbalance since his mother tried to run over cops with her car and was put in a mental institution. When a girl stole some of his liquor, some of my beer, and some of our potato chips, he talked about "squaring her a-hole" with the 6"x6" square-shaped bottle of Patron tequila she stole, or pouring some tequila down her throat and lighting it. I could go on and on. He was a supernice guy in many ways, but he also controlled his girlfriends and it'll be a miracle if he doesn't go to prison someday for something totally insane.

Oh, he also talked about hooking his tractor trailer up to the trailer office and dragging it down the highway since he was upset at the management for rooking him out of pay.