Mr. Chaz Bono on Oprah, Mon. May 9, 2011

  • #41
well, if the operation hasn't been completed, I don't think Chaz should be sounding off on this. He's speaking from a limited perspective...a superficial view, IMO. On the outside, he looks like a man, but the most important physical part is still female . Until he makes the full committment, there are a lot better spokes people...unless this was the result he was after? to retain female genitalia? The other night, I watched an HBO documentary about sex changes in Iran. Surprisingly, this country is pretty accepting and can back it up with religion...but the families were just as confused and depressed as anybody. I consider myself pretty open minded, but this is the one area where I'm pretty close minded. IDK why, but I just think we should leave Mother Nature alone. I don't like any surgery in general, and the thought of some money hungry doctor just hacking away, worries me. The few transgender people I've dealt with have a few things in common. They came from terrible homes, were severly abused, and I worry they were taught to hate themselves so much, that they want to erase that person from existence. One guy in particular, came from the most physically abusive home, I've ever seen. His younger brother, while still in elementary school, shot and killed a friend, and now this guy is wanting this operation. IDK, but I see a lot of self hatred and psychological scars that no operation is going to fix. When he's a she, I think he will still be the same scarred, unhappy person on the inside.. and to top it off, he's married to a woman old enough to be his grandmother.

BBM

Perhaps I am missing something in this post. I've had a vagina my whole life and would never describe it as my most important physical part - not even close.

Some (but not all) of the transgenereds with whom I am friends have childhood abuse in their past. The only common theme I have discovered in these folks is that they are just like the rest of my friends (hetero, 🤬🤬🤬🤬, male, female, whatever) - they want love, peace, acceptance....
 
  • #42
I wish Chaz the best. I may not understand this but I truly believe that Chaz always felt like a man or at least confused about sexuality. Chaz seems quite well adjusted. Do I say everything is ok, as in alternate lifestyles....no but I can't imagine Chaz going thru this if she/he didn't really feel it was in her soul.
I am religious and don't think God makes mistakes. We are human and have been since Adam and Eve.....
May he live happily. I think he is a great spokesperson for the transgendered. He is not living some crazy life...he is living the life he feels is his.
MOO and probably not worded well.
 
  • #43
Did anyone watch Chaz's show on OWN. I thought I'd try to get a perspective on what Chaz is going through, and boy was I sad. The show was SO sad and the struggles Chaz went through is nothing anyone should have to go through. Do I think he's happy now? Nope! I was really really - REALLY upset that while he was undergoing his transformation (which isn't complete yet) he is out there telling parents who "think" their very young children may be transgender to start them on hormones IMMEDIATELY so they don't go through puberty and experience what he did.

Who gives him that right? He admitted he spent 10 years on drug, stayed at home, is depressed, is going through severe testosterone rages -- yet tells a young child that it's okay to want to be a boy and to do this and that. I thought the Shiloh reach out was a rumour, but it obviously isn't.

Chaz needs to go back home and get through his change first before lecturing the world on his so called expertise. If anyone said anything like that to my son, I'd be livid.

It's one thing to support someone who is transgender (and is mentally capable of making such a decision), but a child? The brain isn't even developed until your early 20's.

So that's what I took away from the show -- just a lot of sadness. His relationship is another story - but completely dysfunctional.

Chaz - I can only wish him the best.

MOO Please and Thanks.

Mel
 
  • #44
I saw Chaz & his partner on Pierce Morgan. He was fine. For an hour. Did not see Chaz on Oprah.

The Shiloh thing was a stupid set-up by a reporter who threw out Shiloh's name (from nowhere) at Chaz - as an example of a tomboy. And the reporter ran with Chaz's sound bite. IMO - The irresponsible one here is the reporter. And, time will tell, but I'm thinking Chaz doesn't bite that hook ever again. :crazy:
 
  • #45
Personally I find this whole thing disgusting. Does he want to date girls?

If his mom didn't have the money, what would she have done.

Going on TV to show "look at me now" is so degrading.

Beautiful little girl God made and he destroyed it.

His mom didn't pay for it.Two very lovely friends of his helped with those expenses.
They were introduced on the show.
I hate to see anyone suffer needlessly. Chaz suffered. Maybe you or I would have chosen another way,but this is his way. God does not love him any less than he loves me,IMO.
I am a conservative in every ,except when it comes to judging choices like Chaz made.
 
  • #46
I'm still confused as to how you can legally be declared a man when you still have female DNA and a vagina. I don't have a problem with what Chaz has done and no doubt he really feels like he needs to be a man to go through it all, but if nobody knew Chaz and he was found dead, (heaven forbid this is just a what if) what would a coroner classify him as...would he find the body to be male? I think we need a hybrid gender classification.
 
  • #47
I don't think it would be a problem. If a missing person has changed their gender the police would probably know about it and the coroner would know what they're looking for when trying to identify them. AFAIK they most commonly use dentals and DNA to identify UID's and the sex change operation wouldn't disturb either of those processes. Regardless of which gender the deceased identified with, their DNA will be matched with the UID similarly.

I assume that the searches can be run without specifying gender because there was a case in which an apparently female UID was matched with a male MP by DNA.
 
  • #48
I don't understand how someone can be born female, become or realize they're homosexual, enter a relationship with a woman, then take hormones and have surgery to become a man but still stay with the same female homosexual partner. There's too much stuff going on for me to grasp.

imo
 
  • #49
Maybe they still love her?

Is it properly classified as a homosexual relationship if the other partner identifies as a man?
 
  • #50
To each their own... words I live by. As long as they're not hurting others... I accept them for who they are.. and Chaz thinks he is a man. I'm totally okay with his choice. As someone who grew up on the Sonny & Cher show, I think there is alot more psychologically going on there... BUT I'm sure he had much counseling before taking this step and making these life changing decisions.
 
  • #51
I do not know how to qualify or quantify Chaz's situation. I would say that I want God to have mercy on me and not give me what I deserve for my deeds in this life....so I wish nothing but the same for Chaz. God Bless Him....and God love him.
 
  • #52
I could identify myself as a tree, but I would not be a tree.

Identifying yourself as something you are not does not change your genetic makeup.

She was born a female and will die a female. No amount of surgery or hormones can change that.

I bet you think being gay is a choice as well.
 
  • #53
God bless Chaz, I hope he finds peace and happiness. I know some are not religious, and my apologies to them, God loves us all. Including Chaz.
 
  • #54
The Oscar-winning actress and singer slammed her son's critics. "If you got that excess time and that amount of hostility, I'm not so sure that I can say anything to you that would make you change your feelings," she said. "I don't know that I would have any magic words to make you feel more comfortable and to soothe you into not being terrified of my child dancing on "Dancing With The F*#%ing Stars."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20528139,00.html

:lol:

:rocker:
 
  • #55
No, that was decided at conception. Her DNA will never change.
She will never be a he.

JMO

I'm just as flummoxed as you. Everyone refers to Chaz as a he, and he went and had his gender legally changed, but he still has a vajayjay. So is he a girl or a man or a half man half girl.

IMHO unless you can find a way to get rid of that extra female chromosome, I would always consider Chaz to be a female IMHO. Does he have a Y chromosome floating around in there somewhere? If so, then he would have a peni.

It's a political debate for the most part, and I DON'T want to go there. But I've yet to figure out this whole thing.

JHMO.

Mel

Females have two X chromosomes, whereas males have one X and one Y chromosome.

There's a lot of confusion about what makes a person male or female. I think EmmaPeel really explained very well. But let me add. For those who feel it is simple science and that you are what your DNA states you are, what about this?:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MedicalMysteries/story?id=5465752&page=1
This is a woman who was born with completely male DNA. Yet, she is a woman, with female parts. What is she?

And what about Leslie Feinberg? He is a man, born genetically as a woman. No sex change of his genitalia. But can we truly say this is a woman? I mean, really?:
author04-7947.jpg


leslie.jpg


I could identify myself as a tree, but I would not be a tree.

Identifying yourself as something you are not does not change your genetic makeup.

She was born a female and will die a female. No amount of surgery or hormones can change that.

How about this? Science states that what defines us a male or female is a combination of genetics, hormones and brain structure: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation"]Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Rainbow_flag_and_blue_skies.jpg" class="image" title="LGBT pride flag"><img alt="LGBT pride flag" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Rainbow_flag_and_blue_skies.jpg/150px-Rainbow_flag_and_blue_skies.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/6d/Rainbow_flag_and_blue_skies.jpg/150px-Rainbow_flag_and_blue_skies.jpg[/ame]

In fact, many scientists studying twins, who investigated cases where one twin turned out Queer (transgender or gay) and one did not, believe that flushes of hormones in utero often play a major role in sexual identity or gender identity. In other words, one fetus may receive a flush of testosterone, even though that fetus is programmed to be female. The result? Anywhere on the spectrum from straight to gay to transgender (and, I'm guessing, perhaps even intersex, formerly known as hermaphrodite):

Nancy Segal, a professor of developmental psychology and director of the Twins Study Center at California State, Fullerton, says Juan's experience is helping researchers understand twins better.
"From what Juan and Liana tell us, genes do not predict identical behaviors," she said.
Doctors think that something happened in the womb that made the twins different.
"We expect that Juan was exposed to higher levels of testosterone and male hormone, which might have redirected her brain somewhat, making her feel like a man. This did not happen to her sister, who grew up as a full female," Segal said.
Segal, author of "Entwined Lives: Twins and What They Tell Us About Human Behavior," says scientists are beginning to look at what happens to identical twins within the womb to explain similarities and differences that surface later in life.
"The womb is a very different experience for identical twins, and in some ways it's surprising that identical twins are as alike as they are," Segal said. "Gender is a complicated behavior affected by many things. Even with identical twins, who are so alike in many ways, as Juan and Liana are, there still can be profound differences between them."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/story?id=174855&page=1

So, it seems that gender identity is really not so simple and science does not tend to show that the gender as classified by your DNA is the gender you will die as.

I like to think in terms of black and white. It's safer. I don't have to worry about things. I don't have to be confused. Black and white thinking gives me the parameters for life and the answers to almost every question. However, as I have aged, I have learned that there are a lot of shades of gray - in everything. That's not always a comfortable place to be, which is why I think so many people have problems with things like "homosexuality" or transgender people, etc. I get that. But the gray exists, in science and in life, whether we like it or not and whether it's comfortable or not.

And if it is uncomfortable for those who do not have to confront the shades of gray, how does it feel for those who are forced to confront it because it is their life?:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Utpam0IGYac&feature=related"]20/20 "My Secret Self" Part 1 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8F9CaPyQz8&feature=related"]20/20 "My Secret Self" Part 2 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W17z6KeiNY&feature=related"]20/20 "My Secret Self" Part 3 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSkQlWUX_eI&feature=related"]20/20 "My Secret Self" Part 4 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib_yE5WILJc&feature=related"]20/20 "My Secret Self" Part 5 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]

And what do you do if that's your child, living in that gray?

I urge anyone who feels they know the answers to the dilemma of transgender identity, to watch the above documentary and others, all easily found on youtube. And also, please read Stone Butch Blues by Leslie Feinberg. I thought I knew so much and was so open-minded but that book really opened my eyes to the pain society and family can cause a person with such an identification, how hard the road is they have to travel.

I think there is a lot to be learned about these issues and to me, opinions are much more valuable, whether I agree with them or not, when in the context of educated dialogue. :twocents:
 
  • #56
Thank you for sharing the 20/20 series! I cried & cried . . . it's so difficult feeling uncomfortable in your body. I can't imagine the emotional toll these human beings go through every single day.
 
  • #57
I wish the best of everything for Chaz and his family. I could care less about his physical attributes or lack thereof.
 
  • #58
Respectfully snipped and BBM - I watched the documentary about Chaz, and I think it has a lot to do about the money issue (shows and what not).

In the show, his support group leader/member loaned him the $$ for breast removal surgery. He hasn't "gone all the way," as stated in the show, because that surgery isn't "perfected" enough...FWIW...

I agree - follow the money. Having female breasts removed won't make a man of her and never will. Cutting the wings off a plane doesn't make it a boat. But if she's happier then good for her. Calling anyone with no talent a celebrity because of who the mother is, is just mindless.
 
  • #59
Loved Chaz as a little girl and love Chaz and the man he has become now ...
I cannot believe with all the bad things happening in the world that people worry about someone elses sexuality or who they love ..I dont get it .
All I care about is if someone isnt a pedophile and they leave animals alone ! man, woman, gay or straight!
 
  • #60
Loved Chaz as a little girl and love Chaz and the man he has become now ...
I cannot believe with all the bad things happening in the world that people worry about someone elses sexuality or who they love ..I dont get it .
All I care about is if someone isnt a pedophile and they leave animals alone ! man, woman, gay or straight!

Most of us aren't. There's sexual identity and then there's gender - which is what the doctors put on your birth certificate. Chastity was born female and always will be. Wearing men's clothing won't change that. A 'Boy Named Sue' is still a boy. Being PC won't change anything either. Some of us just refuse to call Chastity a man, beyond that you're looking for an argument where none exists. I don't care what costume she wears. My problem with her and this show is calling her a 'star' as in DWTS. And if all we should opine on is "the bad things happening in the world", then why does this tread topic exist?
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
134
Guests online
5,999
Total visitors
6,133

Forum statistics

Threads
633,354
Messages
18,640,471
Members
243,500
Latest member
justcallmekim
Back
Top