MS - 14-year old shoots parents; kills mother - Mar. 19, 2024

[acutename]

starting or stopping these kinds of meds can have terrifying side effects, especially in the first two weeks, even as an adult. she had been seeing a therapist for mental health issues and self harm before all of this happened. to me it makes the most sense that mental health issues played a big part.

i think it’s shocking that a 14 year old girl, in these specific circumstances, had access to a gun. i wonder what their situation would have been like today if she didn’t have that access. i think it’s a tragedy for everyone involved.

all of this but any normal teen would be remorseful and miss her mother. all teens rage against their parents at some point - lash out, insult them, run away, rebel.... but they don't kill them IMO.

 

[drsleuth]

Such a sad case.

She should have taken the plea deal & would most likely be out in her mid 30's.

The evidence was overwhelming IMO, her legal team, step dad & grandparents should have advocated for her to take the plea deal, they may well have for all I know , but Carly does what Carly wants?? IMO

She wanted her secret life & mum was onto her, so she took her out & was lucky not to also take out the step dad too ( I can't work out what's going on there- denial probably ) - just like Chandler Halderson , both now serving life without parole ( both verdicts withing 2hrs as well )

Hardly a solution in the end.

 

[SMK777]

starting or stopping these kinds of meds can have terrifying side effects, especially in the first two weeks, even as an adult. she had been seeing a therapist for mental health issues and self harm before all of this happened. to me it makes the most sense that mental health issues played a big part.

i think it’s shocking that a 14 year old girl, in these specific circumstances, had access to a gun. i wonder what their situation would have been like today if she didn’t have that access. i think it’s a tragedy for everyone involved.

Yes, the medications and access to the gun bother me. This should never have happened.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Wow! She is evil.

...and possibly oppressed by evil spirits.
God have mercy on her...

 

[Luna20]

Her attorney did her no favors. He was a dud comparison between the two. He had no game, and he followed no plot.

Was the date established for when she abruptly quit one of her meds? That is so dangerous and can manifest itself in dark ways.

A colleague of mine has a child with similar issues. He would accidentally forget to take his meds, miss for 4 or 5 days and she could tell by the way he was acting. He told her he wanted to die and that he wanted to kill his sister.

One day he approached the mailman and told him not to come back because he was mean. After school one day they stopped to get a smoothie and he got so angry because he said it was a different size cup-it wasn’t.

These incidents occurred when he missed his meds, needed to taper the dosage and if he lacked sufficient sleep.

He is so kind, never raised his voice, and he never gave his parents any trouble. Athlete and he excelled in his studies.

He has done well as a young man, has a family and manages his MH mindfully.

This is a sad case all the way around.

 

[SMK777]

Her attorney did her no favors. He was a dud comparison between the two. He had no game, and he followed no plot.

Was the date established for when she abruptly quit one of her meds? That is so dangerous and can manifest itself in dark ways.

A colleague of mine has a child with similar issues. He would accidentally forget to take his meds, miss for 4 or 5 days and she could tell by the way he was acting. He told her he wanted to die and that he wanted to kill his sister.

One day he approached the mailman and told him not to come back because he was mean. After school one day they stopped to get a smoothie and he got so angry because he said it was a different size cup-it wasn’t.

These incidents occurred when he missed his meds, needed to taper the dosage and if he lacked sufficient sleep.

He is so kind, never raised his voice, and he never gave his parents any trouble. Athlete and he excelled in his studies.

He has done well as a young man, has a family and manages his MH mindfully.

This is a sad case all the way around.

Yeah, the medication issue here is extremely serious; it was ignored by the court and it’s not sitting right…..deeply disturbing.

 

[Dotta]

Yeah, the medication issue here is extremely serious; it was ignored by the court and it’s not sitting right…..deeply disturbing.

I agree.

After all,
we are talking about a minor who was 14 at the time of the attack.

With disturbing history of abuse concerning her bio father.
And therapies and psychotropic medications.

Something went terribly wrong in her life.

JMO

 

[SMK777]

I agree.

After all,
we are talking about a minor who was 14 at the time of the attack.

With disturbing history of abuse concerning her bio father.
And therapies and psychotropic medications.

Something went terribly wrong in her life.

JMO

That’s my perspective, too. It’s all well and good to view this person as an evil criminal but it’s not in keeping with the state of science and psychology.

This is as you note a child with a history of trauma and serious medication issues. It was not handled responsibly by her defense team in light of those issues.

 

[fred&edna]

Yeah, the medication issue here is extremely serious; it was ignored by the court and it’s not sitting right…..deeply disturbing.

During his testimony, Dr Jason Pickett (psychiatrist) addressed the medications Carly was taking - including dosages and rate of physical absorption and much more.

jmo

 

[ilovewings]

I was under the impression that teenagers could not get life without parole- is that on a state by state basis? I know in the case of the Oxford School shooter in Michigan the shooter did get life without parole, but I believe that sentence is being appealed.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I dont' have the answer to that. What I do know from reading the trial testimony notes is that her mother got her out of an abusive situation with the bio dad. There was a younger sibling who died before she escaped the abuse. Carly mentioned to the doctors times where her bio dad withheld food and water. Unclear to me whether these were during forced visitations or before. Any or all of this is at least partly to blame for this girls personality disorder and skewed mental health. I do believe she knew what she was doing and was not insane. But I also believe that she experienced trauma as young child that affected her mental health and ultimately caused her to take the life of the one person who had always kept her safe.

I should add that this is local to me.

@Quill , do we know if the bio-dad is local, and was still around her in recent years?

 

[SMK777]

During his testimony, Dr Jason Pickett (psychiatrist) addressed the medications Carly was taking - including dosages and rate of physical absorption and much more.

jmo

Were there other voices and expert opinions on the medications and stopping these suddenly? It’s known to be quite dangerous, especially in the population under 18.

 

[Vaderman]

Cases like these really bum me out. Another waste of potential and life. There are never winners in these cases, IMO.

 

[SMK777]

Cases like these really bum me out. Another waste of potential and life. There are never winners in these cases, IMO.

Yes, it’s horrible that she killed her mother, but in the end her own life is also totally destroyed.

What girl of 14 wouldn’t rather be happy, going out shopping with her mom and living her best life, rather than killing her and going to prison?

I can’t help feeling that this could have and should have been prevented.

Horrible, horrible case. So meaningless.

 

[fred&edna]

Were there other voices and expert opinions on the medications and stopping these suddenly? It’s known to be quite dangerous, especially in the population under 18.

Dr Andrew Clark (psychiatrist) also testified about the meds, too... it's just that I got a better detailed understanding from Dr Pickett because he discussed the dosage amounts and how long it takes the body to absorb/adjust, etc.

jmo

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Was the date established for when she abruptly quit one of her meds? That is so dangerous and can manifest itself in dark ways.

A colleague of mine has a child with similar issues. He would accidentally forget to take his meds, miss for 4 or 5 days and she could tell by the way he was acting...

He is so kind, never raised his voice, and he never gave his parents any trouble. Athlete and he excelled in his studies.

(Quote snipped by me for focus.)
I don't think a teen who "never gave his parents any trouble" and "excelled" had "similar issues" to this girl. I think this girl was deeply struggling in many aspects of her life and wasn't going to be fine by just taking her medication.

But I do agree missing medications (or changing dosage, stopping it suddenly, or being on "the wrong one") can cause out-of-character and dangerous thoughts and contribute greatly to behaviors. I don't know whether her defense team went into this enough and wonder if the jury discussed it.

 

[SMK777]

I don't know whether her defense team went into this enough and wonder if the jury discussed it.

Exactly my questions.

 

[fred&edna]

If the meds were sooo strategically important to Carly's mental state at the time of the killing/attempted killing wouldn't the out-of-state pediatric psychiatrist (Dr Clark) hired by Carly's legal team have emphasized this greatly in his report and stressed to her defense team for thorough consideration? Her defense team might have made some terrible legal decisions but this wasn't one. Also, Dr Clark's testimony stressed how wonderful an anti-psychotic drug was in improving her mental health which was administered by the jail vs any detrimental impact of the use and or abrupt stopping of any low-dose SSRI's.

IIRC, Dr Clark is the pediatric psychiatrist who has been treating children and adolescents/teens for over 30 years. Former Harvard Med School faculty member. He's the pro who should know the most important aspects.

jmo

 

[Quill]

@Quill , do we know if the bio-dad is local, and was still around her in recent years?

I do not. If that was stated in the trial notes, I have missed it. I admit that I only read the notes from the doctor's ( defense and prosecution) testimonies thoroughly. The rest I skimmed. It could have been established earlier and I missed it.

 

[Luna20]

That’s my perspective, too. It’s all well and good to view this person as an evil criminal but it’s not in keeping with the state of science and psychology.

This is as you note a child with a history of trauma and serious medication issues. It was not handled responsibly by her defense team in light of those issues.

I think her defense was awful. It was bizarre at times because he wasn’t specific when he needed to be, his tone was flat and he made no points on cross.

Her female therapist was better than her attorney. She gave specific details about her time with Carly.