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[sissi]

I doubt she took any secrets to the grave, I think she had a wonderful "deal" with her God to allow her to raise her son , given her horrible illness.

 

[Camper]

The R family has lived in their own private prison since December 25, 1996.

The invisible but real bars remain. But like the King with the invisible clothing, we can all see the bars too. Only the food rations are different, the furniture, and the personal daily freedom to go wherever they wish. They can now visit more family in the graveyard.

God bless the soul of innocent and loving little JonBenet, and all of the other little tiny innocents that are with her.


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[Wudge]

*nods* I add to that cocktail the Ramsey defense team.

The evidence, specifically the ransom note, points right at Patsy Ramsey imo. That's not any kind of mob or emotional thinking - that's me looking at the evidence the killer left and seeing that it leads to thinking JonBenet's mother killed her and covered it up, then got away with it by getting a stiff defense steam to buddy up with a corrupt DA.

But that's just my opinion.

The note is evidence. What is not evidence is that Patsy wrote the note. Hence, your reasoning extension is based on personal speculation, not fact, not evidence.

Assuming speculation to be fact is a serious reasoning error, as is assuming to be true that which you wish to prove (begging the question). In applied logic, these reasoning errors preclude the derivation of a valid and true conclusion. They represent the simplest forms of fallacious reasoning.

An adult who commits such kindergarten errors should never be allowed inside a jury box.

 

[mjak]

I was both horrified and saddened to read the angry heartless rehtoric written by people here, upon learning of Patsy Ramsey's death. Patsy Ramsey was an innocent women in the eyes of the law. Out of respect for her Son, who has suffered more tragedies that anyone should have to , and her other love ones I do not feel it necessary for Websleuths to have been used as a bulletin board for hateful degredation of a women on the day of her death. Let her family mourn in peace.
Regardless of what I may think of her or her husbands involvement in her daughters death I know not what the truth is., nor does anyone else here.!!! I think it is repulusive behavior for anyone to contibute to a morning familys pain by horribly denegrading their love one. Let websleuths be a place that helps victoms and there family and never alow it to contribute to anyones pain.

mjak

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Well, I did say it was my opinion...and I'm not sitting on a jury. Who knows what conclusion I would come to if I was sitting on the jury trying JonBenet's killer (I wouldn't want that onus). I understand there's evidence that has never come out, never been seen by the public. Maybe I would draw a different conclusion if I saw it all presented and argued by prosecution and defense.

I've drawn a conclusion based on all I've read and seen, and I've read and seen all I could find in the past nine years. I have been deeply intrigued by the world of JonBenet Ramsey, how the life she lived may have been, what exactly happened to her the night she died, and who her killer is since December of 1996 when I first heard her unusual name and felt pity for a small girl murdered in her own home on Christmas night.

I dislike being called an adult who makes kindergarten errors and is unfit for jury, but you are also entitled to your opinion.

 

[concernedperson]

Well, I did say it was my opinion...and I'm not sitting on a jury. Who knows what conclusion I would come to if I was sitting on the jury trying JonBenet's killer (I wouldn't want that onus). I understand there's evidence that has never come out, never been seen by the public. Maybe I would draw a different conclusion if I saw it all presented and argued by prosecution and defense.

I've drawn a conclusion based on all I've read and seen, and I've read and seen all I could find in the past nine years. I have been deeply intrigued by the world of JonBenet Ramsey, how the life she lived may have been, what exactly happened to her the night she died, and who her killer is since December of 1996 when I first heard her unusual name and felt pity for a small girl murdered in her own home on Christmas night.

I dislike being called an adult who makes kindergarten errors and is unfit for jury, but you are also entitled to your opinion.

You are good.An a probable good juror if that presents itself. Emotions fly hard with these cases.I think of JonBenet all the time. Just a little girl. Your heart is on your sleeve too. Prayers all the way around.No worry people are always here to support.

 

[Wudge]

Well, I did say it was my opinion...and I'm not sitting on a jury. Who knows what conclusion I would come to if I was sitting on the jury trying JonBenet's killer (I wouldn't want that onus). I understand there's evidence that has never come out, never been seen by the public. Maybe I would draw a different conclusion if I saw it all presented and argued by prosecution and defense.

I've drawn a conclusion based on all I've read and seen, and I've read and seen all I could find in the past nine years. I have been deeply intrigued by the world of JonBenet Ramsey, how the life she lived may have been, what exactly happened to her the night she died, and who her killer is since December of 1996 when I first heard her unusual name and felt pity for a small girl murdered in her own home on Christmas night.

I dislike being called an adult who makes kindergarten errors and is unfit for jury, but you are also entitled to your opinion.

You, too, have a right to your opinion. However, you originally represented your position to be based on evidence. It was not.

The D.A., Hunter, took JonBenet's case to a Grand Jury, which heard the evidence and the Ramseys' statements and chose not to indict either of them. Citing Hunter to be corrupt certainly can't be based on his due diligence therein. Moreover, your speculation that cited Hunter as corrupt is not any form of evidence, whatsoever.

You also noted, not too lightly, that the Ramseys (stiffly) lawyered up. They were smart to lawyer up. All persons of interest or suspects should immediately do so. Like your right to your opinion (however it might be derived) that too is Constitutionally supported.

I have previously covered your logic error as regards the ransom note. I will be gracious and ring that bell no further.

Frankly, nothing you cited in your original post is evidence against Pasty. Yet, you claimed your position to be neither emotion-based nor of the thoughtless, mob-based variety. If that is so, I will not hazard a guess as you what you might prefer to call your reasoning, but I can assure you that it does not represent any form of classical, Aristotelian logic.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Thank you, CP. I appreciate that rather much.

I'd debate this with you, Wudge, but clearly nothing I have to say can ever be at the level of thinking you think it should be. I don't know how you can say my opinion isn't based on the evidence. Could you please elaborate on that? How did I arrive at my conclusion if not by looking at the evidence I have seen presented?

As for Hunter's diligence...pshhht. Diligently defending the Rs from having to be treated like any other suspect in a child's homicide. Name me one other child homicide in which obtaining information hinged upon asking the prime suspects politely to provide it for the police instead getting it through a warrant.

That grand jury was a farce. They didn't even call either J or P Ramsey or Detective Thomas to be witnesses. What? How can they determine what went on without even hearing from the detective who pursued the case tirelessly or the parents were in the home when child was killed, the last ones to see her alive?

 

[Camper]

Thank you, CP. I appreciate that rather much.

I'd debate this with you, Wudge, but clearly nothing I have to say can ever be at the level of thinking you think it should be. I don't know how you can say my opinion isn't based on the evidence. Could you please elaborate on that? How did I arrive at my conclusion if not by looking at the evidence I have seen presented?

As for Hunter's diligence...pshhht. Diligently defending the Rs from having to be treated like any other suspect in a child's homicide. Name me one other child homicide in which obtaining information hinged upon asking the prime suspects politely to provide it for the police instead getting it through a warrant.

That grand jury was a farce. They didn't even call either J or P Ramsey or Detective Thomas to be witnesses. What? How can they determine what went on without even hearing from the detective who pursued the case tirelessly or the parents were in the home when child was killed, the last ones to see her alive?

---------->>>Indeed! Money talks in the form of intimidation. The BPD en total, lacked professional expertise in handling the case from the 911 call early that morning, until the sun set on December 26th. Turning the FBI away at the outset was a MAJOR fault.

Fires are best extinguished the minute a spark is seen, or smoke is detected. Guard the stockade before the arrows start flying = Hal Haddon and company, attorneys at law.


May they all RIP at the expense of justice for a tiny girl.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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[Wudge]

Thank you, CP. I appreciate that rather much.

I'd debate this with you, Wudge, but clearly nothing I have to say can ever be at the level of thinking you think it should be. I don't know how you can say my opinion isn't based on the evidence. Could you please elaborate on that? How did I arrive at my conclusion if not by looking at the evidence I have seen presented?

SNIP

As I said, your citing Hunter as allegedly corrupt is not evidence against Patsy. Nor is your noting that the Ramsey's lawyered up any form of evidence against Patsy. Nor is the ransom note evidence against Patsy. Nothing in your post represented evidence against Patsy, nothing.

How you arrived at your position is not ascertainable by me. Though you claim your position to be neither emotion based nor mob based thinking.

I'll guarantee you one thing, whatever the approach is that you used to derive your position, don't think that practitioners of rigorously tested, classical logic will be jumping at the chance to endorse it.

 

[concernedperson]

No, this child as well as every other child deserves justice. This is what we do as adults ...protect children. Anything else is less than exculpatory. We have to do this we cannot sit back and think it will all come out in the wash.

 

[wenchie]

I was both horrified and saddened to read the angry heartless rehtoric written by people here, upon learning of Patsy Ramsey's death. Patsy Ramsey was an innocent women in the eyes of the law. Out of respect for her Son, who has suffered more tragedies that anyone should have to , and her other love ones I do not feel it necessary for Websleuths to have been used as a bulletin board for hateful degredation of a women on the day of her death. Let her family mourn in peace.
Regardless of what I may think of her or her husbands involvement in her daughters death I know not what the truth is., nor does anyone else here.!!! I think it is repulusive behavior for anyone to contibute to a morning familys pain by horribly denegrading their love one. Let websleuths be a place that helps victoms and there family and never alow it to contribute to anyones pain.

mjak

Could you please explain how posts on this board in any way keep Patsy's family is being kept from mourning in peace. I surely don't believe that they read here, and if they ever did - they certainly wouldn't be reading here now.

WE have the same right to judge a person's words and actions after they have left this world that we do while they're alive. Death does not absolve a person from blame for their deeds.

Patsy obfuscated, refused to cooperate with LE, and sent LE after people they knew were completely innocent, in order to get the focus off of herself.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

As I said, your citing Hunter as allegedly corrupt is not evidence against Patsy. Nor is your noting that the Ramsey's lawyered up any form of evidence against Patsy. Nor is the ransom note evidence against Patsy. Nothing in your post represented evidence against Patsy, nothing.

How you arrived at your position is not ascertainable by me. Though you claim your position to be neither emotion based nor mob based thinking.

I'll guarantee you one thing, whatever the approach is that you used to derive your position, don't think that practitioners of rigorously tested, classical logic will be jumping at the chance to endorse it.

Well, I didn't say Hunter being corrupt was evidence against Patsy. I said that's part of why I thought she wasn't charged. The lawyering up, while not evidence, is indicative of something to hide, especially when the Rs use their lawyers as an excuse for why they can't cooperate with police...for years. They don't seem to be too interested in finding the "real" killer, do they? Defunct foundation, dead tipline.

The ransom note is evidence against Patsy when she alone out of 73 people tested is the one who cannot be ruled out as the author. She's the one who found it in an improbable manner, made the 911 call and failed to mention her child's head was in danger of being cut off, and she's the one who told a friend (I believe Pam Griffin) that she wrote the draft letter they found etched in the pad for some other innocent reason. She noted that the ransom note appeared to have been written on paper from their own house (then later changed that), and she's the one who told Det. Thomas that she thought perhaps a woman had written it, and that the author was probably the killer. HUH???

You don't know how I arrived at my conclusion, and you don't even have what you're accusing me of straight, so I'm not concerned with whether you think my thinking is sound or not.

As if I'm thinking everyone else should think like me!
And wenchie, I agree totally, with all your points. I was wondering what mjak thought the appropriate amount of time to wait for discussing a case again without fear of offending family with the evidence is.

 

[ellen13]

Could you please explain how posts on this board in any way keep Patsy's family is being kept from mourning in peace. I surely don't believe that they read here, and if they ever did - they certainly wouldn't be reading here now.

WE have the same right to judge a person's words and actions after they have left this world that we do while they're alive. Death does not absolve a person from blame for their deeds.

Patsy obfuscated, refused to cooperate with LE, and sent LE after people they knew were completely innocent, in order to get the focus off of herself.

mjak,
with all due respect, we were all writing this stuff before pr died. it's not like we've all changed our minds about anything just because she died. and like wenchie said, i doubt her family is reading this right now. she could have lifted up that sleeve on day one, taken a lie detector, and never would have gone through all of this scrutiny if she was innocent, jsut like someone mentioned that john walsh and marc klaas did. i understand what you're saying, but you're dealing with a board of people with very strong opinions about pr. this is a thread about pr at the top of this board where just nice things are said about pr if this thread is getting to you.
regards,
ellen

 

[Tricia]

I was both horrified and saddened to read the angry heartless rehtoric written by people here, upon learning of Patsy Ramsey's death. Patsy Ramsey was an innocent women in the eyes of the law. Out of respect for her Son, who has suffered more tragedies that anyone should have to , and her other love ones I do not feel it necessary for Websleuths to have been used as a bulletin board for hateful degredation of a women on the day of her death. Let her family mourn in peace.
Regardless of what I may think of her or her husbands involvement in her daughters death I know not what the truth is., nor does anyone else here.!!! I think it is repulusive behavior for anyone to contibute to a morning familys pain by horribly denegrading their love one. Let websleuths be a place that helps victoms and there family and never alow it to contribute to anyones pain.

mjak

Patsy Ramsey not only dressed her daughter up like a but she also RUINED people's lives with her lies.

John and Patsy pointed the finger at innocent people just so they wouldn't be under the "umbrella."

Patsy Ramsey was not a good woman in my view. Cancer is a horrible disease and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Ever. But Patsy's cancer does not change the facts of the case.

Ask Fleet and Priscilla White just how Patsyand John almost ruined their lives. Ask Chris Wolf. Steve Thomas, who wrote a book that was based on the facts of the case. I could go on and on but I think you get the picture.

My heart aches for Burke. He is an innocent in this horrid show.

 

[Tricia]

And what if she was guilty??? I'd like to see John try to sue me for slander.

Linask, my dream is for Lin Wood to sue me on behalf of the Ramseys.

I own one forum that is almost a 100 percent "Ramsey Did It" board. It gets millions of hits and lots of participation. Forums for Justice
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

I own Websleuths...enough said

Myself along with many other wonderful friends presented the Gov. of Colorado with a petition to appoint a special prosecutor in this case.

I own www.supportramseytruth.com
along with www.jonbenetramsey.org

Many times I have put out a press release to expose the Ramsey's lies. By the way a press release is coming up soon.

Never, have I ever, been threatened with a lawsuit? Why? Because I am not a well known talking head on TV. That's the only reason.

I need to add that anything I have ever done on this case I was only able to do with the help of many wonderful posters who put in their time and energy to help with the many projects we have done on Forums for Justice.

 

[blueclouds]

I'd do it in a heartbeat but greater and better people than I have tried.

Really Tricia. I have not spent any amount of time for a LONG TIME on JBR thread. List the "LISTS" of evidence.

AS I've stated before, I was CERTAIN OF DARLIE'S INNOCENCE when joining WS.... I NO LONGER DO WHATSOEVER. PROOF AND EVIDENCE SPOKEN AND PROVIDED HAS lead me to believe Darlie is SO GUILTY.... although I include Darrin in that.

So, regarding JBR..... show me the money. Prove me wrong. I'd actually lOVE nothing MORE than having a CHILD KILLER punished or at least shown for what they were /are.

I don't know whatelse to say. One thing that needs to be done is the "strange" evidence showing intruder and WHY the FBI would place the DNA sequence on the CODIS national system. WHY would they place JBR's findings on CODIS?

I'm leaving town but loving to read all this once I return. Have a great LONG weekend all AMERICANS / CANADIANS AND ALL.