MSNBC to Imus: You're FIRED!

[IrishMist]

IM, I never said she couldn't generalize. But IMO she was stating such as a fact. I was merely addressing that by saying not where I live.

It appears to me that you are asking him to prove generalized statements, while making generalized statements of your own. And, while I'm here, I'm curious... did you interview those people, and ask them- or do you assume that because they were laughing and enjoying their meals that they haven't been touched by racism?

 

[Nova]

Can you prove this? They're insulted every single day?? Shadowed in stores?? Ignored in restaurants?? Hmmm... where I live it seems like the opposite. We just ate at a restaurant the other night where 80% of the patrons were black and everyone was enjoying themselves.

And this one experience disproves what are well known to be common occurrences?

Could we stop this, please? This thread is full of these arguments: "I saw a black person once who was rich and suffered no discrimination." They prove nothing. "Driving while black" has been documented in many areas. Slow or non-service of blacks in restaurants has also been documented; Denny's settled on suit on this issue, and that's just one chain.

I do not condone what Imus said but for pete's sake, he apologized. He met with the women and apologized and they ACCEPTED his apology. It is Sharpton who egged it on and fueled all of this. I do NOT mind Sharpton coming to the help of people who are wrongly accused, etc.

The apology and suspension were enough for me, but Sharpton doesn't take orders from me. The Rutgers women WERE wrongly accused. Of being hos.

But he also needs to admit when he wrong and accept that he too is human and apologize to those he hurt. But he won't. Sharpton has said he won't apologize to the Duke LAX players. Hmmm... what does that say????

How did Sharpton "hurt" the Duke players? Seems to me they were injured by a wrongful accusation and a corrupt prosecutor. Sharpton relied on that prosecutor's claims, as we all do in all sorts of cases. Why does Sharpton have a special obligation to apologize?

That's BS... my grandparents had a hard life, crappy neighbors and treated bad but they sure as hell didn't start spouting how this generation owes them apologies and monetary compensation!! Gee, but who is??? It's "them" that won't let it go. They weren't slaves but they sure as hell want compensation and for WHAT?

:sigh:

 

[MREG2]

You act like black oppression began and ended with slavery. That's not the case! For all intents and purposes, blacks civil rights were routinely disregarded until 1965.

Yes, I can see where you would say that with the one statement I made. But read my other posts and you will know that I know better.

 

[Nova]

But why are the blacks the only ones whining and complaining about their ancestors?

I don't believe the vast majority of black people are whining about anything, and certainly not about their ancestors. Moreover, other groups have and do protest historical injustices. And rightly so.

...they need to stop trying to get today's generation to pay for what our ancestors did.

Formal reparations are an idea that some have floated, but I don't believe anyone believes it will ever happen.

But Imus made his remark last week, not in the 1840s.

And please enlighten me.... slavery occurred in other countries. Are they going through what we are going through?

Some yes, some no. Why would our doing what is right depend on what other countries are dong?

As for our obligation to make this country equitable, it goes both ways. They can not have their cake and eat it too.

I agree equality is a universal obligation. But I have no idea who has cake.

 

[Cheetah]

You act like black oppression began and ended with slavery. That's not the case! For all intents and purposes, blacks civil rights were routinely disregarded until 1965.

So true....slavery is just a part of it, of course that is where it all began. Many people don't stop to think, it hasn't been that long since the Civil Rights Movement. Black oppression has been around alot longer. It's not over and everything is not okay....we still have a looooooong way to go.

 

[MREG2]

It appears to me that you are asking him to prove generalized statements, while making generalized statements of your own. And, while I'm here, I'm curious... did you interview those people, and ask them- or do you assume that because they were laughing and enjoying their meals that they haven't been touched by racism?

Again, IM, to ME it seemed she was stating it as fact.

Um, no. I did not need to interview them. If 80% of them were black and still there having a good time and eating there dinner then I think it is safe to say they were not being touched by racism. If they truly were would they all stay? Would they allow themselves to be treated that way?? I do NOT believe so. Why would ANYONE stay at a place to eat dinner if they were being mistreated??? Especially since that was NOT the only restaurant. And no, it was not a specialty restaurant so they didn't stay and put up with mistreatment because they wanted some hot and spicy food. It was an O'Charley's. A very generalized restaurant. But you know, next time, and I know there will be a next time, I'll be sure to question some of them. I have no problem with that....

 

[IrishMist]

So true....slavery is just a part of it, of course that is where it all began. Many people don't stop to think, it hasn't been that long since the Civil Rights Movement. Black oppression has been around alot longer. It's not over and everything is not okay....we still have a looooooong way to go.

True. Very true. Not to mention the impact of thought processes and behaviors passed from generation to generation. It's not like we can say "ok, you've got rights now" and POOF! it's all good. :doh:

 

[Nova]

You act like black oppression began and ended with slavery. That's not the case! For all intents and purposes, blacks civil rights were routinely disregarded until 1965.

I wish we could say all black people got full rights in 1965!

Blacks were denied the right to vote by the hundreds or even thousands in Florida in 2000.

Despite laws to the contrary, blacks are still routinely denied the right to rent or purchase a home. There are many ways of doing this without leaving proof that can be used in a court of law.

(I'm not disagreeing with IM here, but adding to her point, which was that full legal equality wasn't effected until a few decades ago. I'm merely adding that equality in the eyes of the law doesn't always mean equality in fact.)

 

[Nova]

So true....slavery is just a part of it, of course that is where it all began. Many people don't stop to think, it hasn't been that long since the Civil Rights Movement. Black oppression has been around alot longer. It's not over and everything is not okay....we still have a looooooong way to go.

Exactly. Formal and legal "slavery" is just the most dramatic symbol of all sorts of discrimination. It's a handy reference point, but not the only and certainly not the most current issue.

 

[Nova]

Again, IM, to ME it seemed she was stating it as fact.

Um, no. I did not need to interview them. If 80% of them were black and still there having a good time and eating there dinner then I think it is safe to say they were not being touched by racism. If they truly were would they all stay? Would they allow themselves to be treated that way?? I do NOT believe so. Why would ANYONE stay at a place to eat dinner if they were being mistreated??? Especially since that was NOT the only restaurant. And no, it was not a specialty restaurant so they didn't stay and put up with mistreatment because they wanted some hot and spicy food. It was an O'Charley's. A very generalized restaurant. But you know, next time, and I know there will be a next time, I'll be sure to question some of them. I have no problem with that....

Mreg, I believe you that some restaurants do not discriminate. And this is certainly better than the 1960s when blacks were banned entirely from many establishments.

Nonetheless, the discriminations I mentioned (which were only those that came immediately to the mind of this white person) are common and well known.

 

[IrishMist]

Again, IM, to ME it seemed she was stating it as fact.

Um, no. I did not need to interview them. If 80% of them were black and still there having a good time and eating there dinner then I think it is safe to say they were not being touched by racism. If they truly were would they all stay? Would they allow themselves to be treated that way?? I do NOT believe so. Why would ANYONE stay at a place to eat dinner if they were being mistreated??? Especially since that was NOT the only restaurant. And no, it was not a specialty restaurant so they didn't stay and put up with mistreatment because they wanted some hot and spicy food. It was an O'Charley's. A very generalized restaurant. But you know, next time, and I know there will be a next time, I'll be sure to question some of them. I have no problem with that....

It seems to me there may be a reading comprehension problem. I purposely stated HIM and HE so you would realize Nova was a male, not a female.

Did you truly take Nova's posts in such a way that led you to believe that black people are subject to racism every second of everyday?

While I'm assuming you are being sarcastic in your offer to question them, it would, IMO, behoove you to actually talk to them, and yes, ask some questions. I have a feeling you'd be very surprised by the answers.

 

[MREG2]

And this one experience disproves what are well known to be common occurrences?

Could we stop this, please? This thread is full of these arguments: "I saw a black person once who was rich and suffered no discrimination." They prove nothing. "Driving while black" has been documented in many areas. Slow or non-service of blacks in restaurants has also been documented; Denny's settled on suit on this issue, and that's just one chain.



The apology and suspension were enough for me, but Sharpton doesn't take orders from me. The Rutgers women WERE wrongly accused. Of being hos.



How did Sharpton "hurt" the Duke players? Seems to me they were injured by a wrongful accusation and a corrupt prosecutor. Sharpton relied on that prosecutor's claims, as we all do in all sorts of cases. Why does Sharpton have a special obligation to apologize?



:sigh:

Nova, it is one experience of many for me and my family. We live in a semi-black area of town (when compared to the area of town we just moved from). I didn't know that I needed to spout every experience we have been in. Where I live they are doing just fine.

In some cases yes there is documentation. But to say it happens everywhere everyday is absurd.

No, Sharpton only takes orders from himself. That's why he's on alot of people's nerves.

Ok. Hurt may not be the appropriate word. But Sharpton jumped in and when it was discovered that this woman he was trying to defend was wrong, he just left. Nevermind the things he was saying. He was wrong and he knows it. Yes, he relied on the prosecutor. That was his fault. Get your facts before you start bashing. And you can't deny that.... this whole website is based on gathering all the facts before bashing. So why can't it be that way for Sharpton?

 

[Alice253]

Just thought I would post this in case anyone is interested.

Poll: Wrong to Fire Imus

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/16/114554.shtml?s=icp

An Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that while Americans don’t have a favorable view of talk show host Don Imus, they overwhelmingly believe he should not have been fired.


The non-scientific poll of more than 110,000 people also shows that few believe Imus’ disparaging April 4 remarks about the Rutgers women’s basketball team were evidence of racism.

See poll results at link.

 

[MREG2]

Mreg, I believe you that some restaurants do not discriminate. And this is certainly better than the 1960s when blacks were banned entirely from many establishments.

Nonetheless, the discriminations I mentioned (which were only those that came immediately to the mind of this white person) are common and well known.

Then I swear I must live in some freak city.... Or my city does one heck of a job covering things up. Everywhere we go I do not see it... my black friends never say anything about being treated badly. Does it happen, no doubt. But every one regardless of race gets treated badly at some point.

 

[Cheetah]

Good post...

You're right. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

But why are the blacks the only ones whining and complaining about their ancestors? Heck, like a PP said, their ancestors are dead. The ones whining have no idea what it means to be a slave. I promise that if I ever treat ANYONE the way all of our ancestors were treated I'll be the first to admit wrong and make amends any way I can, but my goodness, they need to stop trying to get today's generation to pay for what our ancestors did.

And please enlighten me.... slavery occurred in other countries. Are they going through what we are going through?

As for our obligation to make this country equitable, it goes both ways. They can not have their cake and eat it too.

I have never, ever heard an African-American say..."my life is terrible because my ancestors were slaves". I have heard them say, I wasn' qualified for that job, My son is having a hard time getting into college, I really need help getting off of welfare, Why do people treat me different, I was wrongly accused, I was pulled over last night, Why do my neighbors in this nice neighborhood act like they don't want me here, My child uses decade old textbooks, My child was trying to feed us and got caught selling drugs, Why do some people think we need to get over it, when we're trying to live in peace, They would never survive a day in the ghetto, but yet they have all the answers, The police don't care about the crime around here, I made a mistake when I was younger and now I'm a convicted felon who can't find a job, We were discriminated against at the movies, the restaurant, the hotel,.....etc, etc, etc.

These are examples of things I have heard from the people living in the worst of situations....there are always exceptions, but unfortunately this is life for the majority of the people. Even if they do succeed and achieve success, I can tell you one thing...they will work twice as hard to prove themselves and they will still be under constant surveilance because of the color of their skin. That's a fact.........

 

[MREG2]

I don't believe the vast majority of black people are whining about anything, and certainly not about their ancestors. Moreover, other groups have and do protest historical injustices. And rightly so.



Formal reparations are an idea that some have floated, but I don't believe anyone believes it will ever happen.

But Imus made his remark last week, not in the 1840s.



Some yes, some no. Why would our doing what is right depend on what other countries are dong?



I agree equality is a universal obligation. But I have no idea who has cake.

But if the whites do then there is hell to pay. We'll hear that we should keep our mouths shut because of what "we" did to the blacks. Heck, there is white slavery happening now.

I don't believe reparations will happen either.

But he's being treated like he did. Bill O'Reilly made a horrible comment some time ago about Shawn Hornbeck. That j*ck*ss is still on the air.

I'm not saying what we should do depends on other countries. But it seems to me that it is only our country who still has people who won't let it go. And by that I mean, would rather sit there and whine and complain instead of working with others to make it better. It is NOT only up to the white people to fix it. And no matter what you say, I will not budge from that. They want it fixed then they need to step up and help.

 

[Cheetah]

Then I swear I must live in some freak city.... Or my city does one heck of a job covering things up. Everywhere we go I do not see it... my black friends never say anything about being treated badly. Does it happen, no doubt. But every one regardless of race gets treated badly at some point.

No...some cities are like that. I used to live in South Florida and never saw obvious discrimination...but I see it here in Central Florida, which is why I'm moving in a few weeks.

Sure...everyone gets treated badly at some point, but does that make it okay for one race to see it on a daily basis? I've been treated badly numerous times, but never because of the color of my skin....

 

[MREG2]

It seems to me there may be a reading comprehension problem. I purposely stated HIM and HE so you would realize Nova was a male, not a female.

Did you truly take Nova's posts in such a way that led you to believe that black people are subject to racism every second of everyday?

While I'm assuming you are being sarcastic in your offer to question them, it would, IMO, behoove you to actually talk to them, and yes, ask some questions. I have a feeling you'd be very surprised by the answers.

Gee, IM I stand corrected. Yes, I guess I'm more focused on the topic than you subtly trying to correct me on thinking that Nova was a woman. Please forgive me. I guess I do have a reading comprehension problem.

Nova, I hope I have not offended you by not catching on to IM's references and therefore kept calling you "she" and "her".

No, IM, just as I hope no one takes my statements and thinks that I believe that racism never, ever, ever occurs.

LOL! I have black friends and work with MANY black people. I do talk to them. I <gasp> socialize with them. I laugh with them. So I do not think I'll be too surprised by their answers like you think I will. But thank you for thinking I'm so freakin sheltered that I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[nanandjim]

Just thought I would post this in case anyone is interested.

Poll: Wrong to Fire Imus

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/16/114554.shtml?s=icp

An Internet poll sponsored by NewsMax.com reveals that while Americans don’t have a favorable view of talk show host Don Imus, they overwhelmingly believe he should not have been fired.


The non-scientific poll of more than 110,000 people also shows that few believe Imus’ disparaging April 4 remarks about the Rutgers women’s basketball team were evidence of racism.

See poll results at link.

I totally agree with the findings of this poll.

 

[MREG2]

I have never, ever heard an African-American say..."my life is terrible because my ancestors were slaves". I have heard them say, I wasn' qualified for that job, My son is having a hard time getting into college, I really need help getting off of welfare, Why do people treat me different, I was wrongly accused, I was pulled over last night, Why do my neighbors in this nice neighborhood act like they don't want me here, My child uses decade old textbooks, My child was trying to feed us and got caught selling drugs, Why do some people think we need to get over it, when we're trying to live in peace, They would never survive a day in the ghetto, but yet they have all the answers, The police don't care about the crime around here, I made a mistake when I was younger and now I'm a convicted felon who can't find a job, We were discriminated against at the movies, the restaurant, the hotel,.....etc, etc, etc.

These are examples of things I have heard from the people living in the worst of situations....there are always exceptions, but unfortunately this is life for the majority of the people. Even if they do succeed and achieve success, I can tell you one thing...they will work twice as hard to prove themselves and they will still be under constant surveilance because of the color of their skin. That's a fact.........

Ahhh... great post! But some (and granted not all) of what you have said I have heard too from white people.