My Experience With Borderline Disorder: By Aprilshowers

[OneLostGrl]

the courage on this thread has really touched me!!!

Me too! It's such a relief to see people speaking out! You should all be proud of yourselves!

 

[Tori2]

I see it in the lying too but so many other illnesses have the lying too. And like I keep saying to my husband- I can't see Bipolar OR Borderline acting that way after killing their child. I could see maybe getting upset enough to kill but we'd not be able to live with ourself afterwords. We'd be dead soon afterwords, IMO.

Hey Lost Girl!

I knew someone had a really good thing on stigma and it's you!! BRAVO!

I guess the whole thing to remember here is that we have no idea what is wrong with Casey, but it's very clear something is! I think the thing that bothers me is the lack of affect regarding Caylee. Very strange.

You're right, many things include lying and we really don't know what is going on, but a personality disorder is probably right in there.

I can't remember if it was you or someone else - or both! - who said they thought Cindy was BPD and I guess I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm not sure about that one. I think there are a lot of problems- but don't we all have them. I wonder if anyone has a totally "functional" family!?!

Anyway, the best thing about this particular thread is that we've all found others to talk to if we need it. I think that is awesome.

T.

 

[Beagle1]

Ah yes ... splitting! I could stay away from family, friends, etc... for long periods of time, if they were on my 'black' list.

There is black & white ... no gray. All though NOW there is gray ... but before meds, there wasn't.

I can see Casey pushing her parents away, her brother ...etc., to 'get back' for something, or just having them on her 'black' list. I'm not sure what for ... but, that just might be.

For some reason though, I just don't see her killing Caylee. Don't know why ... and I may absolutely be wrong, but I don't know, it's just something that doesn't seem typical of a Borderline, if anything ... they would kill themselves first.

I keep seeing different so called psych experts on TV talking about Casey and her having BPD. I don't know if they are referring to her actions or whether they were implying that her BPD had something to do with the disappearance of Caylee. I was confused as I had come to believe what you said (bolded above). Thanks so much for confirming what I thought.
Thanks for sharing your experience. You have my admiration.

 

[aprilshowers]

Just wanted to post once more, before going to bed.

Sorry I can't respond to each one tonight ... I'm exhausted, but will tomorrow.

Thank you ALL for reading and writing ... it's good to know I'm not alone.

By the way ... my husband's family or mine are certainly NOT functional Tori! LOL .... far from it!

Thought I'd share a photo of our family reunion picnic from Saturday ... of my husband's very UN-FUNCTIONAL family.

Enjoy!

http://www.diana-elaine.com/show3.html

 

[impatientredhead]

Bringing my posts on the topic over from the other thread. I appreciate everyone sharing their experiences and want to say I have great respect for the women who have and do what they need to do to be better mothers. It is amazing how much damage can be done.


impatientredhead
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisg
aprilshowers, I read your story--thank you for being so open in sharing it. Do you mind me asking if your mom was relatively young when you were born? I have a few friends who have much less of an age gap between themselves and their parents than I do and I find that they have fewer boundaries in their relationships. There are some positive aspects to that but I also see negative ones as well (w/ some parallels to what you are describing) although I would not go as far as to categorize any of them as having BPD. Of course the parental dynamic you're describing can occurr regardless of age, but I wonder if it is more common w/ a closer age gap between parent and child than is the average.

Not April of course, but my mother was severly BPD (with a nice mix of booze and enough prescription meds to kill an elephant just to keep things interesting). She had me when she was 16, had her own horrific upbringing. She had no boundaries and my childhood was a nightmare. I stopped speaking to her in my 20's. Told her to call me when she went to rehab and therapy. She died last year without ever attempting to reach me.

From therapy and support groups for children raised by moms with BPD people range on the severity of the disorder, it is amazingly difficult to treat. And they do not know if it is genetic or environmentally or a combo of the two, but borderlines tend to raise borderlines, especially among the daughters. I think what rubs so many wrong about Cindy is she has some BPD traits. You know there is something off about her affect but you can't quite place it. I would guess she is a whole nother creature behind closed doors. You can see the temper start to flare every once in awhile. And then you have Casey....

impatientredhead
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by impatientredhead
<snip>Not April of course, but my mother was severly BPD ....


Yes, quoting myself. It just occured to me a similarity my BPD mother shares with Casey... she refused to identify my father, even to me. Not a clue who he is. She told me it was none of my business, which seems to be Casey's take on it as well.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I keep seeing different so called psych experts on TV talking about Casey and her having BPD. I don't know if they are referring to her actions or whether they were implying that her BPD had something to do with the disappearance of Caylee. I was confused as I had come to believe what you said (bolded above). Thanks so much for confirming what I thought.
Thanks for sharing your experience. You have my admiration.

I feel the same way.. the way she treats people (phone conversations home, dancing up on chicks at the club, stealing money/credit card, breaking into shed and stealing gas from parents, stealing money from friend, friends say she is a liar, etc) looks like borderline behavior.

However, like April said in her post, a person with BPD is more a danger to herself than anyone else. Murder, IMO is not borderline behavior.. esp. not murder of ones own child. typically a mom with BPD loves her children too much, depends on them to make her feel good and whole and loved.

That's the reason I'm having a hard time thinking it's BPD that Casey has.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Not April of course, but my mother was severly BPD (with a nice mix of booze and enough prescription meds to kill an elephant just to keep things interesting). She had me when she was 16, had her own horrific upbringing. She had no boundaries and my childhood was a nightmare. I stopped speaking to her in my 20's. Told her to call me when she went to rehab and therapy. She died last year without ever attempting to reach me.

From therapy and support groups for children raised by moms with BPD people range on the severity of the disorder, it is amazingly difficult to treat. And they do not know if it is genetic or environmentally or a combo of the two, but borderlines tend to raise borderlines, especially among the daughters. I think what rubs so many wrong about Cindy is she has some BPD traits. You know there is something off about her affect but you can't quite place it. I would guess she is a whole nother creature behind closed doors. You can see the temper start to flare every once in awhile. And then you have Casey....

impatientredhead
Registered User Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by impatientredhead
<snip>Not April of course, but my mother was severly BPD ....


Yes, quoting myself. It just occured to me a similarity my BPD mother shares with Casey... she refused to identify my father, even to me. Not a clue who he is. She told me it was none of my business, which seems to be Casey's take on it as well.

I'm sorry you never got a chance to know your mother without the direct involvment of her mental illness and all the instability it brought with it. Though I am not excusing her behavior or the damage she did, please know that what she had is no less real than Cancer or heart disease that she chose not to treat.

That really sucks that she took your fathers name to her grave with her! I'm sorry

 

[impatientredhead]

I feel the same way.. the way she treats people (phone conversations home, dancing up on chicks at the club, stealing money/credit card, breaking into shed and stealing gas from parents, stealing money from friend, friends say she is a liar, etc) looks like borderline behavior.

However, like April said in her post, a person with BPD is more a danger to herself than anyone else. Murder, IMO is not borderline behavior.. esp. not murder of ones own child. typically a mom with BPD loves her children too much, depends on them to make her feel good and whole and loved.

That's the reason I'm having a hard time thinking it's BPD that Casey has.

I on the other hand grew up with a violent, horrible tempered version. Told me since I was a small child that she hated being a mother, that I ruined her life, that abortion wasn't legal the year she got pregnant (and the pregnancy afterwards was terminated because I made her so miserable). So no siblings, no dad, just isolation with her and a string of loser men. When these men would leave it would be the end of the world as you knew it, stalking, suicide threats, violence against them, arrests... and then most would come back for round two (I think the healthier ones that just stumbled into her path were the ones that dissappeared on the first round). But based on the way she stalked these guys after her abandonment issues were triggered I never thought she would let me go anywhere. When she threw me out of her house during the "intervention" attempt I thought for sure I knew what was coming. I was STUNNED when she never attempted to contact me.

So I don't have that hard of a time think someone with BPD/combined with the wrong substances/circumstances/and maybe other issues killing their child.

This in no way implies that I think it is common for the disorder, just that I can picture my mother doing something in a fit of rage when I was a toddler and then taking no responsibility for it. Especially when you hear Casey in that first jail house call say "All you guys care about is getting Caylee back" in that horrid tone of voice.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I on the other hand grew up with a violent, horrible tempered version. Told me since I was a small child that she hated being a mother, that I ruined her life, that abortion wasn't legal the year she got pregnant (and the pregnancy afterwards was terminated because I made her so miserable). So no siblings, no dad, just isolation with her and a string of loser men. When these men would leave it would be the end of the world as you knew it, stalking, suicide threats, violence against them, arrests... and then most would come back for round two (I think the healthier ones that just stumbled into her path were the ones that dissappeared on the first round). But based on the way she stalked these guys after her abandonment issues were triggered I never thought she would let me go anywhere. When she threw me out of her house during the "intervention" attempt I thought for sure I knew what was coming. I was STUNNED when she never attempted to contact me.

So I don't have that hard of a time think someone with BPD/combined with the wrong substances/circumstances/and maybe other issues killing their child.

This in no way implies that I think it is common for the disorder, just that I can picture my mother doing something in a fit of rage when I was a toddler and then taking no responsibility for it. Especially when you hear Casey in that first jail house call say "All you guys care about is getting Caylee back" in that horrid tone of voice.

I lived with the stalking, rage filled, suicide attempting, smashing out windows, beating of new girlfriends, false rape allegation break-up's..

but never a "I wish you were never born", "shoulda gotten an abortion" type of BPD. It must have been horrible for you, I can't begin to imagine!

:blowkiss:

 

[softsoul]

While we discuss BPD and it's variations I think it is important to keep in mind that all of us, ALL of us are capable of violence regardless of whether or not we ever are given a diagnosis of any type. Of course, some people are more capable than others as their coping skills may not be as developed but we all have limits...thankfully, most of us never reach them in our lifetime. In reality the mentally ill are no more violent than the rest of the population.

I do not know if Casey would meet the criteria for BPD although what we do know about her indicates some type of PD. If you are familar with the DSM-IV then you recognize that PD's are in clusters based upon their characteristics. BPD is in Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic disorders) along with Antisocial (sociopaths), Histrionic and Narcisstic PDs. These share several common diagnostic criteria. It isn't uncommon for a person to be have a dual diagnosis. It is also rather common for them to be diagnosed with one PD and said to "have traits" of another, meaning they do not have enough of the characteristics for a "full" diagnosis yet do have several of the characteristics of that PD. Thus, Casey COULD POSSIBLY be BPD with ASPD traits, which would explain why she isn't reacting the way most BPDs might. We human tend not to fit nicely into categories which is why the DSM is set up the way it is...to attempt to explain the differences.

 

[SusieClue]

April, you are singing a familiar tune to me! My thots however, given my personal exp with bpd, are that it is Cindy who has the disorder. I felt this way from very early on as she reminds me of my mother who has bpd.

There are some narcicisstic traits that go along with the disorder and a preoccupation with getting ones needs met.

<snip>

this just reminded me of Cindy's myspace post to Casey talking about how Caylee gave her (Cindy) "unconditional love"....like that is what Cindy most needed from this child.

 

[wallflower67]

I experienced some BPD symptoms when I was a late teen and early 20s. It turned out I had bipolar and OCD, and with meds, I am very well controlled.

From what I understand, personality disorders are more difficult to treat because they do require a lot of therapy on top of medications.

I stayed with an abusive bf for years, even after he threatened to kill us both by driving off the road and chased me with a shot gun. I'm not sure what you call that...stupid personality disorder lol!

My mom has a lot of borderline symptoms. She is always playing helpless and God help the person who doesn't rescue her.

My husband's ex has BPD. Everytime she does something evil (like try to shove me down the stairs!) she will go tell other people that we did it to her, not the other way around!!. I mean, it's seriously scary because what am I supposed to say to people, "No, wait, she did it to me!" No one will believe me (excpet my family and close friends who know her ways."

She knows how to twist everything so by the end of the conversation, you don't know what hit you!

 

[wallflower67]

I, too, had a mother who constantly reminded me that she was going out of her way to be a mother. That I was ruining her life. Only once she told me she wished I'd never been born, but she always told me she felt like she was 'saddled to her kids" or if one of us was sick, "stuck home with a sick kid". At least she DID stay home with us. But it was almost not worth it because of the guilt trip.

When I had a severe postpartem depression after my daughter's birth, my mom assumed it was because I had "lost my freedom." That wasn't it at all! Despited the deep grief that goes with depression, I still loved caring for my daughter. It was the only thing that kept me from suicide!

 

[impatientredhead]

I, too, had a mother who constantly reminded me that she was going out of her way to be a mother. That I was ruining her life. Only once she told me she wished I'd never been born, but she always told me she felt like she was 'saddled to her kids" or if one of us was sick, "stuck home with a sick kid". At least she DID stay home with us. But it was almost not worth it because of the guilt trip.

When I had a severe postpartem depression after my daughter's birth, my mom assumed it was because I had "lost my freedom." That wasn't it at all! Despited the deep grief that goes with depression, I still loved caring for my daughter. It was the only thing that kept me from suicide!

There is a book by Christine Lawson called Understanding the Borderline Mother that I found very helpful. I of course showed up to therapy with a copy of "I hate you don't leave me" in hand and wanted to know if that was what was wrong with me. I thank gawd that the behaviors I could identify in myself were learned from being in that household and not an actual manifestation. My own therapy was enough work!

 

[wallflower67]

There is a book by Christine Lawson called Understanding the Borderline Mother that I found very helpful. I of course showed up to therapy with a copy of "I hate you don't leave me" in hand and wanted to know if that was what was wrong with me. I thank gawd that the behaviors I could identify in myself were learned from being in that household and not an actual manifestation. My own therapy was enough work!

I'll have to check out the Borderline Mother. I've read "I Hate you Don't leave me."

I think my behavior was learned too. Took years of therapy before I got better...and I had years of therapy before i had my daughter.

 

[impatientredhead]

I'll have to check out the Borderline Mother. I've read "I Hate you Don't leave me."

I think my behavior was learned too. Took years of therapy before I got better...and I had years of therapy before i had my daughter.

I have opted not to have kids. Spent tons of time debating whether I don't actually want one or if I still have her "being a mother is like being in prison" types playing in my head. It has been many years post therapy and since I still can't decide on an answer to that question I figure opting out is the more prudent option. Growing up with a mother that didn't want the job I couldn't risk doing that to someone else.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have opted not to have kids. Spent tons of time debating whether I don't actually want one or if I still have her "being a mother is like being in prison" types playing in my head. It has been many years post therapy and since I still can't decide on an answer to that question I figure opting out is the more prudent option. Growing up with a mother that didn't want the job I couldn't risk doing that to someone else.

You are very wise!

I get what you mean! My son was already born by the time I was finally diagnosed with Bipolar but after much emotional struggle, and an abortion I had my tubes tied because I was afraid I could end up harming my children if I continued to have them.

I knew what I was capable of, given my rage and Psychotic episodes so I took that possiblity out of the Equation.

BTW, my son is 14 and has never had a "spanking". My fear of my Bipolar and the possiblity of me losing control has colored how I disipline him.. I couldn't trust myself so I simply never hit him. I know if I had more kids and was more stressed day in and day out I would not have had the same amount of control over myself.

 

[impatientredhead]

You are very wise!

I get what you mean! My son was already born by the time I was finally diagnosed with Bipolar but after much emotional struggle, and an abortion I had my tubes tied because I was afraid I could end up harming my children if I continued to have them.

I knew what I was capable of, given my rage and Psychotic episodes so I took that possiblity out of the Equation.

BTW, my son is 14 and has never had a "spanking". My fear of my Bipolar and the possiblity of me losing control has colored how I disipline him.. I couldn't trust myself so I simply never hit him. I know if I had more kids and was more stressed day in and day out I would not have had the same amount of control over myself.

That is very brave and takes a lot of introspection to admit. Every once in awhile I still get myself wrapped up in the "she is still making decisions in my life and she isn't even here".... but I have finally come to the conclusion that whether it is my own feeling or her impact on me as a child, it is what it is. Have to accept it at some point and stop spending so much energy on staying mad and worrying about what might have been if things were different. They weren't.

 

[wallflower67]

You are very wise!

I get what you mean! My son was already born by the time I was finally diagnosed with Bipolar but after much emotional struggle, and an abortion I had my tubes tied because I was afraid I could end up harming my children if I continued to have them.

I knew what I was capable of, given my rage and Psychotic episodes so I took that possiblity out of the Equation.

BTW, my son is 14 and has never had a "spanking". My fear of my Bipolar and the possiblity of me losing control has colored how I disipline him.. I couldn't trust myself so I simply never hit him. I know if I had more kids and was more stressed day in and day out I would not have had the same amount of control over myself.

I never spanked for the same reason. I never trusted myself to be able to stop.

I would have liked to have more children, and my hubby and I have toyed with having one of our own, now that we are older and wiser (of course OLDER is a problem!), but I was afraid of my mental stability with the bipolar and my daughter's dad not a great help.

I do enjoy my step-kids. It's different, but fun, nonetheless.

 

[nursebeeme]

Hi fellow wsers. Several of you have kindly posted personal stories of sociopathy and patholocial lying in various places around the forum and I was wondering if we could start a thread discussing how such persons can really embelish on lies and how they do it... I was hoping this could be an attempt to understand the layers the POI has woven around her lies and being able to take those layers apart. TIA for anyone who can share any real world examples to help understand this condition and how a person with it truly operates.:blowkiss: