Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[dotr]

WOW huge mistake with the dates.

Noticed that, but thought maybe you might have been suggesting a familial connection, imo.

 

[Roxanne_9094]

Noticed that, but thought maybe you might have been suggesting a familial connection, imo.

Nope, just got too carried away with the birthmark similarities to notice the dates, my bad.

 

[dotr]

Nope, just got too carried away with the birthmark similarities to notice the dates, my bad.

By the way, welcome to Ws Roxanne_9094, good to have another set of eyes in the UID/ missing threads!

 

[Roxanne_9094]

By the way, welcome to Ws Roxanne_9094, good to have another set of eyes in the UID/ missing threads!

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 269000]

Just ran across this case. I haven’t had a chance to review the threads yet (quite intimidating), but is Wikipedia correct in stating that there was a ballistics match on a gun found in the vehicle of a drunk driver, but they let him go for lack of evidence? It cites an article which is no longer available. It seems preposterous LE would identify the murder weapon and fail to follow up.

 

[Laughing]

Just ran across this case. I haven’t had a chance to review the threads yet (quite intimidating), but is Wikipedia correct in stating that there was a ballistics match on a gun found in the vehicle of a drunk driver, but they let him go for lack of evidence? It cites an article which is no longer available. It seems preposterous LE would identify the murder weapon and fail to follow up.

oh, yeah, and BTW that drunk driver is a convicted felon -- a person who cannot legally possess a firearm in South Carolina (let alone possess a firearm with the serial number obliterated) and cannt explain how the firearm came into his possession....

JMHO YMMV LRR

 

[Deleted member 269000]

oh, yeah, and BTW that drunk driver is a convicted felon -- a person who cannot legally possess a firearm in South Carolina (let alone possess a firearm with the serial number obliterated) and cannt explain how the firearm came into his possession....

JMHO YMMV LRR

Oh Lord. Reminds me of Lilly Lopez. Has a fight with her boyfriend, and according to him stands on the edge of a ditch near his property to make a call. Disappears. One of her shoes is later found near the ditch and the other in the bed of his truck. He has “no idea” how it got there.

 

[Canaille]

Just ran across this case. I haven’t had a chance to review the threads yet (quite intimidating), but is Wikipedia correct in stating that there was a ballistics match on a gun found in the vehicle of a drunk driver, but they let him go for lack of evidence? It cites an article which is no longer available. It seems preposterous LE would identify the murder weapon and fail to follow up.

I'm relatively new to this case, too. Though I'm pretty sure I recall seeing it many years ago on Unsolved Mysteries and or other shows and around the internet. I also need to find some time to read over all the threads.

Those who have been following this case... do you remember if LE questioned KOA owners/employees after receiving a call from the guy who claimed to have played pool with Jock at the campground? I would like to think that they did... but surely, if they had, they would've been able to find out who these two were. I know I read that the coroner looked into it. But by then, the camp had closed. Any idea when the coroner did this?

My OCD is kicking in hard with this case. I keep going over the shots they received. The number of shots and where.... and how. How was it done?

Well, OCD... I was out shopping the second hand stores today. Talking to God in my head and asking all the whys. Why hasn't this young couple been identified yet? Then I picked up a wallet and found a small piece of paper tucked deep in it. It was from a fortune cookie... "Be patient, and it will happen."

 

[carbuff]

deleted--somebody else already posted the info

 

[Deleted member 269000]

We’re either of the victims sexually assaulted?

 

[Sweetluv]

No sexual assault documented

 

[retrometro]

Another idea that just occurred to me, as counterfactual to some of my earlier speculation: what if Jock and Jane were in fact not foreigers as commonly assumed, but from the United States? Does it make any difference? Given the social upheaval of the early 70s, it seems possible that one or both of them could have been alienated from their families, especially if Jock was slightly older. The families may have never searched for them in the first place and might might not have known that they had a companion.

I'm just thinking out loud here. Maybe it doesn't make any difference. But maybe there's a U.S. solution to this case that's been overlooked by assuming that Jock and Jane are foreigners.

 

[Triss]

We’re either of the victims sexually assaulted?

No, they weren't. They also weren't wearing underwear, either by choice or maybe it was taken from their bodies by the killer(s).

 

[Canaille]

Another idea that just occurred to me, as counterfactual to some of my earlier speculation: what if Jock and Jane were in fact not foreigers as commonly assumed, but from the United States? Does it make any difference? Given the social upheaval of the early 70s, it seems possible that one or both of them could have been alienated from their families, especially if Jock was slightly older. The families may have never searched for them in the first place and might might not have known that they had a companion.

I'm just thinking out loud here. Maybe it doesn't make any difference. But maybe there's a U.S. solution to this case that's been overlooked by assuming that Jock and Jane are foreigners.

After 44 years, it may be way overdue to start thinking outside the box. But, it just seems to me that if they were from the US, surely someone would've recognized them by now. I could better understand if the bodies had been decayed, making it hard to recognize them.

Some things that I've just started to attempt to look into...

Vehicle. I suppose they could've hitchhiked the trip, but if so, what would they have slept in? Could they have traveled in a vehicle that was desired by collectors? Whatever kind of vehicle they might have traveled in, I suspect he was the owner of it. So, if it was stolen, there would be no one to report the car stolen. I did a quick search yesterday for vehicles most stolen in 1976, but didn't have any luck.

Missing persons websites. I'm not finding it as easy to find a data base in other countries like we have in the US.

If he drove, then he would've had a driver's license. I'm guessing there is no way for LE to search records with the Department of Motor Vehicles that would show driver's licenses not renewed between 1976 and 1980 or so.

I have soooooo many thoughts and questions about this case.

 

[Deleted member 269000]

Certainly no easily identifiable motive. No sexual component to the crime. Not robbed of expensive jewelry (though perhaps a wallet or purse were taken). If they were hitchhiking, which seems to be a distinct possibility, there was no vehicle theft. Did Jacques tell his campground friend how we was getting around? Did the friend notice a vehicle?

The nature of the murders IMO almost reads more as a hit than a crime of opportunity or something personal. If the lack of identification on the bodies was intended to disguise their identities, the killer obviously didn’t know Jacques well enough to know he had his initials on the inside of his ring.

 

[Canaille]

Certainly no easily identifiable motive. No sexual component to the crime. Not robbed of expensive jewelry (though perhaps a wallet or purse were taken). If they were hitchhiking, which seems to be a distinct possibility, there was no vehicle theft. Did Jacques tell his campground friend how we was getting around? Did the friend notice a vehicle?

The nature of the murders IMO almost reads more as a hit than a crime of opportunity or something personal. If the lack of identification on the bodies was intended to disguise their identities, the killer obviously didn’t know Jacques well enough to know he had his initials on the inside of his ring.

I feel that it was a hit, too. I feel that they had been followed around. Does anyone know if the KOA had cabins?

I've also thought about the possibility that Jacques might have played pool for money and could've won quite a bit. Maybe the loser wasn't happy about the loss.

 

[Deleted member 269000]

Do we know the order of the gunshots? Given the victims had the exact same shot placement, I’m guessing one killer. Two victims means he would likely need to incapacitate them, so I’m assuming the chest or back wounds were first. The shots to the throat, which would be exceptionally difficult on a resisting or moving target, were likely to finish them off. I recall seeing a postmortem photo of the woman which showed quite a bit of blood spatter from the wound to throat, suggesting she was alive when she received the shot. This would support the theory.

 

[Canaille]

I could be seeing wrong, but in the pictures, to me it looks like one had a entry wound on one side of the neck while the other's entry wound appeared on the other side of the neck. Maybe not all of the shots were done at where they were found. I suppose they could've been shot elsewhere and then finished off on the dirt road. But, then if that were the case, I'd think there would've been drag marks on the ground?

It's been mentioned here and there about the possibility of the male doe being the son of Dr Ferron. There are a handful of men with the same name who look as though they could be related. If Jock Doe was closer to 30, I wonder if he could've been divorced and/or had a son. Also, wonder if he and a brother could've had the same first name, as in Jacques Paul and Jacques Phillip.

 

[jmbuff1]

Do we know the order of the gunshots? Given the victims had the exact same shot placement, I’m guessing one killer. Two victims means he would likely need to incapacitate them, so I’m assuming the chest or back wounds were first. The shots to the throat, which would be exceptionally difficult on a resisting or moving target, were likely to finish them off. I recall seeing a postmortem photo of the woman which showed quite a bit of blood spatter from the wound to throat, suggesting she was alive when she received the shot. This would support the theory.

I also notice the neck shots were more toward the right side of the body, unless I'm seeing it wrong, in which case the shooter was probably left handed. To me, Jane Doe's is clearly on the right, while Jock's is also on the right, maybe a little closer to the center, but still leaning right. Another clue that could maybe have helped at the time if they were paying attention. I wonder if LGH or any relation of his was a lefty...

The no underwear thing is strange indeed, but in the spirit of wild speculation (after 40+ years why not?), perhaps they were parked on the side of the road near the highway somewhere to spend the night, and given the time of night it all happened, maybe certain unmentionable activities were getting underway, at which point an interruption could have caused them to hurriedly dress leaving behind underwear and in Jock's case, even his shoes. I don't know, just wild ideas because hey, what else do we have at this point? It will all come down to the DNA in the end I think, and I can hardly wait. We really need some closure in this case..

 

[Sweetluv]

I think execution..
Three shots each is overkill..
No wounds to head and face suggests they wanted clear identification to whomever they were....sending a message to...
Drug running?