Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[Sherwood Park]

As a Canadian, I have been doing a basic search of our missing persons sites, and so far I haven't seen any couple that fills the bill of these UIDs. They could be listed separately or together of course. The reference to the male of the couple possibly having a dad as a doctor in eastern Canada is interesting, and you would think make it easier to track him down by an investigator but who knows!

Since Canada is still in a pandemic and more people are online these days, I was wondering if maybe CBC and Global would be interested in running this UID story (again, if they did in the past). In French and English. And also some articles in Alumni emails/magazines?
With all of the pandemic precautions, there's less activities and hopefully more space in Alumni emails/magazines.

I'm wondering if there is a dental alumni FB page (in Canada) that we could share this story with. My French is terrible so this would also require someone with good French skills.

 

[Andreee]

Since Canada is still in a pandemic and more people are online these days, I was wondering if maybe CBC and Global would be interested in running this UID story (again, if they did in the past). In French and English. And also some articles in Alumni emails/magazines?
With all of the pandemic precautions, there's less activities and hopefully more space in Alumni emails/magazines.

I'm wondering if there is a dental alumni FB page (in Canada) that we could share this story with.


My French is terrible so this would also require someone with good French skills.

I don't know if they would and I don't know if there is a dental alumni page in Quebec. My French is practically non-existent lol. I'm out west. I think it would take someone in Quebec and/or speaks French to do that, being its a French-speaking province primarily.

 

[retrometro]

I've recently been thinking about counterfactuals in this case and am now starting to think that Jock and Jane may in fact be from the U.S. The evidence for them being Quebecois tenuous at best, based on one witness who didn't immediately come forward. Some of the physical evidence like the truck stop matches and Jane's southwestern-looking jewelry seem to suggest that they traveled significantly in the United States.

As for why no one seems to be looking for them, I have a few possible speculative ideas. I have seen cases in the past where postmortem reports ended up being significantly "off" about the victim's age. Initial reports estimated that Jock was 18-22 and Jane was 18-20, but NamUs estimates that they could have been older (Jock's age range is 18-30 and Jane's age range is 18-25). Let's assume for a moment that one or both of those is wrong -- suppose Jock was 31 or 32, and Jane was 26-27 and that they met while traveling and therefore weren't known to each other's families. I could imagine a situation where someone doing a cursory missing person search would gloss over a report of a murdered 18-22 year old couple because it doesn't seem like a fit if they're looking for a single man in his early 30s.

The other idea I have--which is admittedly more far-fetched--is that perhaps their killer was someone they knew and trusted. The lack of defensive wounds seems to suggest that they were killed very quickly and may not have even seen it coming. If the killer knew who they were, it possible that they could have perhaps used their identities for a while or maybe even given false information to their families. As a result, that could skew where investigators or the families looked. (ie, suppose the killer used one of their names or credit cards in another state week later. Investigators would then think "last seen in [state]" rather than South Carolina).

Just my speculative guess. I could be totally off on all of the above, but I have a feeling that if this case is ever solved, there are going to be factual details that will come as a surprise.

 

[ntt1]

Honestly, if/when this is solved, I'm sure that the actual details will be much more simple than the many theories that have arisen over the years.

 

[Tighthead]

Honestly, if/when this is solved, I'm sure that the actual details will be much more simple than the many theories that have arisen over the years.

I always leaned to the theory they were Argies. I assumed they came from far away since they were unknown, and the male sort of reminded me of Hugo Porta.

With more and more Doe solves, the stories are much simpler as you suggest. Rainbow Falls Doe was only 50 miles or so from home and it took DNA to solve. I think it’s most likely they will be American.

 

[ks-ch]

Honestly, if/when this is solved, I'm sure that the actual details will be much more simple than the many theories that have arisen over the years.

I agree, Occam’s razor.

 

[Sweetluv]

In my opinion, their faces are easily recognizable. I would be able to identify them if they were my family or friends.

 

[Andreee]

I've recently been thinking about counterfactuals in this case and am now starting to think that Jock and Jane may in fact be from the U.S. The evidence for them being Quebecois tenuous at best, based on one witness who didn't immediately come forward. Some of the physical evidence like the truck stop matches and Jane's southwestern-looking jewelry seem to suggest that they traveled significantly in the United States.

As for why no one seems to be looking for them, I have a few possible speculative ideas. I have seen cases in the past where postmortem reports ended up being significantly "off" about the victim's age. Initial reports estimated that Jock was 18-22 and Jane was 18-20, but NamUs estimates that they could have been older (Jock's age range is 18-30 and Jane's age range is 18-25). Let's assume for a moment that one or both of those is wrong -- suppose Jock was 31 or 32, and Jane was 26-27 and that they met while traveling and therefore weren't known to each other's families. I could imagine a situation where someone doing a cursory missing person search would gloss over a report of a murdered 18-22 year old couple because it doesn't seem like a fit if they're looking for a single man in his early 30s.

The other idea I have--which is admittedly more far-fetched--is that perhaps their killer was someone they knew and trusted. The lack of defensive wounds seems to suggest that they were killed very quickly and may not have even seen it coming. If the killer knew who they were, it possible that they could have perhaps used their identities for a while or maybe even given false information to their families. As a result, that could skew where investigators or the families looked. (ie, suppose the killer used one of their names or credit cards in another state week later. Investigators would then think "last seen in [state]" rather than South Carolina).

Just my speculative guess. I could be totally off on all of the above, but I have a feeling that if this case is ever solved, there are going to be factual details that will come as a surprise.

In reading back on these threads a bit, I see that one set of parents from a nearby town was shown photos and weren't sure if the female deceased was their missing daughter or not. I'm not sure if the female was completely eliminated as being their daughter or if she was still a possibility?

 

[retrometro]

In reading back on these threads a bit, I see that one set of parents from a nearby town was shown photos and weren't sure if the female deceased was their missing daughter or not. I'm not sure if the female was completely eliminated as being their daughter or if she was still a possibility?

I would certainly hope that LE looked into the possibility to make sure it was a rule-out, but I don't know for sure.

In my opinion, their faces are easily recognizable. I would be able to identify them if they were my family or friends.

Agreed. I think this is one of the things that makes the case so baffling. Either their families didn't look for them, or for some reason didn't think to look for them in South Carolina.

 

[Andreee]

I would certainly hope that LE looked into the possibility to make sure it was a rule-out, but I don't know for sure.



Agreed. I think this is one of the things that makes the case so baffling. Either their families didn't look for them, or for some reason didn't think to look for them in South Carolina.

Yes, I would think DNA would also eliminate certain people missing, such as the mother & stepfather who couldn't agree if it was their missing loved one. But being they were from a nearby town, I do wonder if that all got sorted out. How odd they both lacked undergarments, don't think it will help with answers though.

 

[Andreee]

In my opinion, their faces are easily recognizable. I would be able to identify them if they were my family or friends.

Yes, you would think so! From what I read, it was the mother vs. stepfather who had differing opinions.

 

[Panhypopit]

I make silver jewelry as a hobby so I looked up what they were wearing. The police termed it as costume jewelry but 2 pieces actually looks like really well made. The ring with the feather has a split shank and two stones, likely turquoise and coral and fits Navaho style type rings. The oval ring has a twisted wire around the bezel and the inlaid stone is done well.

The last ring is three light blue stones and the picture is poor so I can’t see if it is something like chalcedony or dyed shell ( like mother of pearl) and how the workmanship is on that on. They don’t show any marks for the jewelry to even note that there are ore are not any.

The gold ring is also hard to get a good read on as the star is off center. That may mean it is a genuine star sapphire but most I have seen are fake especially with that distinct of a star.

 

[Warwick1991]

I make silver jewelry as a hobby so I looked up what they were wearing. The police termed it as costume jewelry but 2 pieces actually looks like really well made. The ring with the feather has a split shank and two stones, likely turquoise and coral and fits Navaho style type rings. The oval ring has a twisted wire around the bezel and the inlaid stone is done well.

The last ring is three light blue stones and the picture is poor so I can’t see if it is something like chalcedony or dyed shell ( like mother of pearl) and how the workmanship is on that on. They don’t show any marks for the jewelry to even note that there are ore are not any.

The gold ring is also hard to get a good read on as the star is off center. That may mean it is a genuine star sapphire but most I have seen are fake especially with that distinct of a star.

There is a separate thread about the jewelry in this case that has additional information about the jewelry. The gold ring is a Linde Star - it is indicated as such on the NAMUS file on the male Doe.

 

[Chantal]

Since Canada is still in a pandemic and more people are online these days, I was wondering if maybe CBC and Global would be interested in running this UID story (again, if they did in the past). In French and English. And also some articles in Alumni emails/magazines?
With all of the pandemic precautions, there's less activities and hopefully more space in Alumni emails/magazines.

I'm wondering if there is a dental alumni FB page (in Canada) that we could share this story with. My French is terrible so this would also require someone with good French skills.

I can help, I'm from Quebec and speaks French!

 

[Canaille]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I came across this a couple months ago. Does anyone have any idea how to find out who the teacher was that was fired? The article is from July 1976. Since it's thought that Jock had been a teacher before he took this trip and the time of it lines up, in my opinion... What do you think the chances are that this could've been him who had been fired from this school?

https://archives.novascotia.ca/newspapers/archives/?ID=710&Page=200919715

 

[Ozoner]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I came across this a couple months ago. Does anyone have any idea how to find out who the teacher was that was fired? The article is from July 1976. Since it's thought that Jock had been a teacher before he took this trip and the time of it lines up, in my opinion... What do you think the chances are that this could've been him who had been fired from this school?

https://archives.novascotia.ca/newspapers/archives/?ID=710&Page=200919715

Great find! My theory is that Jane was one of Jock's former students. If he ran off with a female student, he probably would have been persona non grata in the community, so he would not have been reported missing. People would have assumed that the girl was voluntarily missing, too.

 

[Canaille]

Great find! My theory is that Jane was one of Jock's former students. If he ran off with a female student, he probably would have been persona non grata in the community, so he would not have been reported missing. People would have assumed that the girl was voluntarily missing, too.

Thanks! That's been my theory too after finding this. I have looked for yearbooks for the school from that year and couldn't find one.

 

[theory]

In reading back on these threads a bit, I see that one set of parents from a nearby town was shown photos and weren't sure if the female deceased was their missing daughter or not. I'm not sure if the female was completely eliminated as being their daughter or if she was still a possibility?

I have wondered about this for years. From what I remember reading the Step Dad thought Jane was their daughter but the Mom did not. Is there a record of their names or their missing daughter's name?

 

[T rex]

I have wondered about this for years. From what I remember reading the Step Dad thought Jane was their daughter but the Mom did not. Is there a record of their names or their missing daughter's name?

I've never found a name and I've looked. There are some good conversations here regarding this. I think it was Carbuff and another poster that made some good points several years ago. I don't have the links to that right now or what Verna Moore had to say. I may be able to get them later.
I don't think the family of this missing girl was from a nearby town but there was a man from a nearby town that led investigators to them. We don't have his name either. It's all kind of a mystery. I think he even accompanied them to Georgia to meet with them. This has led many to believe that they were from Georgia but I don't think that has ever been stated. Only that they met there. I really need to find the links.
I did a good bit of searching at one time trying to find their names but the best I could come up with is the possibility of it being Rebecca Ann Greene. She went missing from Jacksonville Florida in 1974. Her skeletal remains were found in 1977. I do have a link for that.

Unsolved: Three months, five missing girls and the tumultuous summer of 1974 | firstcoastnews.com

 

[ks-ch]

Are there any developments in the spreadsheet?