Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James P Freund #8

[PatLaurel]

Weird. Why would they be hesitant to give information that could help solve the case?

Because they have a POI, maybe? And releasing the info can compromise the investigation?!

MOO JMO

 

[landis]

Because they have a POI, maybe? And releasing the info can compromise the investigation?!

MOO JMO

Yes, that's what I was thinking too. Now that they know Pam and James's identities, they might have some promising new leads.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Because they have a POI, maybe? And releasing the info can compromise the investigation?!

MOO JMO

What I mean is that they want people to come forward if they think they might have seen them. If they'd give locations, that could help drastically.

 

[onceuponadecember]

I’m sorry if I seem disrespectful to your guys, but I really just have a great deal of questions here. Also, I’m not trying to destroy James’s reputation, I’m just trying to draw conclusions from facts that are present.

 

[Betty P]

The initials JPF on the ring would have been enough to produce major leads if James P. Freund was in NamUs, something I mentioned already. I will also point out that the following search term for newspapers.com "J????" and "P." and "F?????" and "presumed decedent" produced about 8000 hits. The question marks represent unknown search characters.

So "J????" as a search term covers "James" and "F?????" as a search term covers Freund. Including "presumed decedent" hits onto legal notices because that's a common phrase used in them (although there are many other similar search terms that may do that).

8000 hits is plenty to sift through but the legal notice for James P. Freund's death in absentia was in there. It takes at least seven years or something like that to be declared dead in absentia, I think, so maybe some of the hits could be winnowed out by identifying a target range.

The point is, we had the missing person's initials all along. If you ever come across a case where you only have initials again then the initials can be used in newspaper databases by using the question marks. It might seem tenuous but I don't think it is: it would just take patience and organization.

You would have to cover a target range of years and work with names of different lengths and that would make it hard. Honestly, I think using the question marks, studying terms that are included in legal notices involved dead-in-absentia topics, and a whole lot of organization and patience could have hit on James P. Freund's legal death notice with about 40 hours of work.

I wish I had that brainwave back in 2007 when I first read about this case. One hour a week and maybe it would have taken a year to find the lead. With a streamlined process then maybe it could take less time. Hope that makes sense.

Very good suggestions. I live in a family of IT database experts who probably have more suggestions. I'll ask.

Reading back in the news stories, it also probably didn't help that an early theory claimed they might be brother and sister because they looked alike. That factoid was mentioned in the clip someone posted upthread from the early Unsolved Mysteries episode. In spite of it all, it's a good learning experience.

 

[landis]

I’m sorry if I seem disrespectful to your guys, but I really just have a great deal of questions here. Also, I’m not trying to destroy James’s reputation, I’m just trying to draw conclusions from facts that are present.

You're good, no worries. Just try to always have in mind that family memebers of any victim could potentially read everything we say.

 

[onceuponadecember]

I've been mapping out possible routes of Pam and James. I found several possible meeting locations. (This is just a theory, I just connected missing locations via a 1976 highway map from the US). These locations include:

• Denver, CO
• St. Louis, MO
• Albuquerque, NM
• Fort Worth, TX
• Dallas, TX
• Hammond, LA
• Baton Rouge, LA

 

[PatLaurel]

What I mean is that they want people to come forward if they think they might have seen them. If they'd give locations, that could help drastically.

The specific question was "Where were they going?". So, no chance that someone "might have seen them", because they never got to the place they were headed to. But, that place (if there was in fact a place they were headed to), can hold the answers to all our questions! And, who knows, even ends in an arrest?

MOO JMO

 

[Daphne1972]

Yes, but we're not the investigators. I'm not trying to sound rude or be mean, but would you want anyone to speculate that your life was out of control when you're only known to them as a John Doe and a murder victim? It's a forum and a discussion, I get it, but you're starting to sound judgemental and James doesn't deserve it.[/QU
Yes and no. No sugarcoating and no unnecessary judgements.

 

[onceuponadecember]

The one thing that troubles me with this case is that Pam and James had not very much in common. It makes me wonder if they were even a couple. Maybe Pam and James were just together to stay safe while hitchhiking?
I also have another theory that I should probably not get into detail about. I'll just say that maybe they were a couple and the absence of underwear could've meant they had s** before they were killed?

 

[Daphne1972]

I've been mapping out possible routes of Pam and James. I found several possible meeting locations. (This is just a theory, I just connected missing locations via a 1976 highway map from the US). These locations include:

• Denver, CO
• St. Louis, MO
• Albuquerque, NM
• Fort Worth, TX
• Dallas, TX
• Hammond, LA
• Baton Rouge, LA

I'm leaning towards they knew each other long time before.

 

[Daphne1972]

I’m sorry if I seem disrespectful to your guys, but I really just have a great deal of questions here. Also, I’m not trying to destroy James’s reputation, I’m just trying to draw conclusions from facts that are present.

I understand. I'm the same.

 

[onceuponadecember]

Sorry for repeating this theory, but I have a possible theory of how the death might've played out:

On August 8, Pam and James went to get either fruit or ice cream sometime in the evening or night and were driving through SC. Around 10PM-1AM they had s** in the car, which would explain the absence of their underwear. Then, they were approached by the killer or killers, and they stepped out of their vehicle (leaving the underwear behind). The killer or killers pulled a gun on them, leaving them to run, which would explain the absence of James's shoes (possibly). The car was then stolen and they were left to die there in SC.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The specific question was "Where were they going?". So, no chance that someone "might have seen them", because they never got to the place they were headed to. But, that place (if there was in fact a place they were headed to), can hold the answers to all our questions! And, who knows, even end in an arrest?

MOO JMO

That’s part of what I found interesting. They both were reported missing in 1975, and were found murdered in 1976. And despite that gap in time, the police seem to know where they were headed.

I’m hoping Pamela and James kept in contact with some people in their lives after they were reported missing. (Friends not acquainted with their families, unaware they were reported missing.) And the police can now cross-reference information from both sides.

 

[landis]

If I remeber right, Pamela's DLC on NamUs was December 1st. It's quite interesting, because it makes me wonder: was it really December 1st, or did her family, when reporting her missing, couldn't remember exactly whether it really was December or maybe sometime earlier, maybe earlier and they just settled for December 1st? Or I'm just going too far and it just simply was December 1st.

 

[onceuponadecember]

If I remeber right, Pamela's DLC on NamUs was December 1st. It's quite interesting, because it makes me wonder: was it really December 1st, or did her family, when reporting her missing, couldn't remember exactly whether it really was December or maybe sometime earlier, maybe earlier and they just settled for December 1st? Or I'm just going too far and it just simply was December 1st.

It's an automatic thing on NamUs for when there's no exact date

 

[landis]

It's an automatic thing on NamUs for when there's no exact date

December 1st or just 1st day of the month?
Edit: I thought January 1st was automatic in case of no exact date.

 

[onceuponadecember]

December 1st. For example, say Doe went missing sometime in March of 1978. Since there is no specified date, it will be set as March 1st.

 

[onceuponadecember]

December 1st or just 1st day of the month?
Edit: I thought January 1st was automatic in case of no exact date.

If there is no exact date but a year, then yes, it will be set as January 1

 

[Triss]

Because they have a POI, maybe? And releasing the info can compromise the investigation?!

MOO JMO

When they said they had a POI it made me think it was someone else than the guy who was in possession of the murder weapon. Someone they haven't mentioned before. Am I the only one who understood it that way?