Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #20

[ncnative]

BTW, there are photos of the LE inspecting the X5 with all the doors open. Sorry I can't pull them up, but they are out there. I think they are on the Fox network's photos.

 

[raisincharlie]

Thanks RC, I missed that clip.

Since it was parked on the premises, sounds like the search of the X-5 was done under the house SW.


"The police had the authority to search the car under O'Brien. In O'Brien, the supreme court held that a warrant to search the premises of a rural duplex allowed the police to search a car parked 200 feet from the duplex, near an outbuilding on the property. Id. at 315-16. The court applied the "physical proximity" test, concluding that the search was authorized by the warrant because the car was close enough to the residence to have been a plausible repository for the objects named in the search warrant"

uh huh - and the BMW in the garage was not immune either.

Still don't know why they didn't haul them in though.

 

[ncnative]

I thought about what was inside the big paper bags too, Mom. I thought maybe a wet mop, carpet, bedding, clothing, shoes, something used to kill someone, and lots of other things. Maybe even the vacuum bag.

 

[momto3kids]

Assume he killed her at 1 am.....ditched her body at 4 am (HT rumor)
Rigor is not an issue.

Temperature is also one thing that determines the time it takes for rigor.

I agree 1 until 4 is not an issue.

 

[EntreNous]

Assume he killed her at 1 am.....ditched her body at 4 am (HT rumor)
Rigor is not an issue.

Seems to me we had a discussion about this on the Michelle Young case. I was surprised to learn that rigor doesn't start until a few hours past death (can't remember) and doesn't reach full rigor for about 12 hrs.

According to this website http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_index.htm Rigor Mortis starts as early as 30 minutes after death.

Here's exactly what they have to say...

Stiffening of the corpse occurs between just 30 minutes and 3 hours after death. The process is called rigor mortis and occurs as the muscles in the body begin to stiffen from a lack of blood and oxygen. Rigor mortis first becomes apparent in the eyelids and jaws of the victim and spreads throughout the whole body in approximately 6 to 12 hours, before receding again after another 6 to 12 hours. Occasionally, stiffening of the body may not even occur if the surrounding temperatures are very low, while the process occurs a lot quicker in muscles that were quite active before death. Like body temperature, the evidence provided by the level of muscle stiffening becomes of little use after a long period since death.

 

[momto3kids]

I thought about what was inside the big paper bags too, Mom. I thought maybe a wet mop, carpet, bedding, clothing, shoes, something used to kill someone, and lots of other things. Maybe even the vacuum bag.

The bag appeared to be long..looking at the guy carrying it out. Both ends are boxed or capped. Truely I think they could have rolled the trunk mat in plastic, and placed it in an open top box.

 

[raisincharlie]

RC, your took the words right out of my mouth...or rather the thoughts right out of my head. I could NOT understand why they hadn't impounded both vehicles and taken them somewhere they could do a proctology-level exam of every nook & cranny of each of those vehicles. I feel *some* evidence, no matter how miniscule, was left in the trunk of the car that was used to transport her body. It's just a feeling of intuition I have. I worry that they may have missed that miniscule something by not impounding his car(s). :frown:

SG I really think that there would have had to have been something significantly large for them to be suspicious since it was Nancy's car. For instance say they got a blacklight hit the size of a small drop on the dash for example - it may mean nothing. Say they got a hit and it was the size of a baseball in the rear portion of the X5 - it could indeed be significant.

All I can thnk is any presumptive tests that may have been done all yielded negative results. I am indeed puzzled by it however.

 

[Just the Fax]

According to this website http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_index.htm Rigor Mortis starts as early as 30 minutes after death.

Here's exactly what they have to say...

Stiffening of the corpse occurs between just 30 minutes and 3 hours after death. The process is called rigor mortis and occurs as the muscles in the body begin to stiffen from a lack of blood and oxygen. Rigor mortis first becomes apparent in the eyelids and jaws of the victim and spreads throughout the whole body in approximately 6 to 12 hours, before receding again after another 6 to 12 hours. Occasionally, stiffening of the body may not even occur if the surrounding temperatures are very low, while the process occurs a lot quicker in muscles that were quite active before death. Like body temperature, the evidence provided by the level of muscle stiffening becomes of little use after a long period since death.

It sounds like he transported the body at either 4 am or 6am.
Either time, rigor would not be so severe that her body would be 'stiff '

 

[ncnative]

As to rigor mortis, if it goes away after so many hours, then I have a question. It's probably a bit weird for some of you. When my dad was in his casket at his funeral, I had to remove something that we had put into his hand, before they buried him. I should have asked the funeral director, because it freaked me out. Dad's hand was like stone. I could barely pry the thing out of his hand that he was holding. I wish I hadn't done that. What caused that stone-like stiffness, if RM leaves the body? This was about 3 days after he'd died and he was enbalmed.

 

[lunarmodule]

Not sure I would rule out blunt force trauma - any number of weapons can be used while drawing very little blood. Suffocation, strangulation definitely more possible however.

Yes, as I recall the Cary Police called it a homicide fairly quickly...to me there would have to be clear evidence that didn't require the ME...ligatures marks, etc. Or a weapon at the site. I just think if it was a messy murder in that house, that the cars and house would have been off limits to BC for much longer than they were. And with suffocation or strangulation, there's practically an unlimited potential array of weapons, including bare hands. Sorry to be so graphic about it.

 

[Just the Fax]

As to rigor mortis, if it goes away after so many hours, then I have a question. It's probably a bit weird for some of you. When my dad was in his casket at his funeral, I had to remove something that we had put into his hand, before they buried him. I should have asked the funeral director, because it freaked me out. Dad's hand was like stone. I could barely pry the thing out of his hand that he was holding. I wish I hadn't done that. What caused that stone-like stiffness, if RM leaves the body? This was about 3 days after he'd died and he was enbalmed.

Embalming 'sets' the tissues ncnative.

 

[ncnative]

:waitasec: OK, Fax. I didn't know that about enbalming. Ugh.

 

[EntreNous]

As to rigor mortis, if it goes away after so many hours, then I have a question. It's probably a bit weird for some of you. When my dad was in his casket at his funeral, I had to remove something that we had put into his hand, before they buried him. I should have asked the funeral director, because it freaked me out. Dad's hand was like stone. I could barely pry the thing out of his hand that he was holding. I wish I hadn't done that. What caused that stone-like stiffness, if RM leaves the body? This was about 3 days after he'd died and he was enbalmed.

Oh, honey I'm sorry about your Dad. I've lost both of my parents and those experiences are terrible.

 

[raisincharlie]

Yes, as I recall the Cary Police called it a homicide fairly quickly...to me there would have to be clear evidence that didn't require the ME...ligatures marks, etc. Or a weapon at the site. I just think if it was a messy murder in that house, that the cars and house would have been off limits to BC for much longer than they were. And with suffocation or strangulation, there's practically an unlimited potential array of weapons, including bare hands. Sorry to be so graphic about it.

I agree but fists can also be weapons and draw little blood. Whatever the cause of death - it was fairly obvious I agree.

 

[ncnative]

Entre, thanks. It was a relief for Dad to pass on. His body had lived long enough and caused him much pain. Very sad, though, yes.

 

[SleuthyGal]

What caused that stone-like stiffness, if RM leaves the body? This was about 3 days after he'd died and he was enbalmed.

I think the embalming process is the reason for that. Those chemicals are preserving things from the inside out. It would not have been rigor at that point.

 

[momto3kids]

Did anyone get the opportunity to watch "the body farm?" It was on a few years ago and absolutely amazing to see how the studies were done. It is a program thru UT. The show actually showed the process in all possible scenario's of death and really was an eye opener.

 

[EntreNous]

Did anyone get the opportunity to watch "the body farm?" It was on a few years ago and absolutely amazing to see how the studies were done. It is a program thru UT. The show actually showed the process in all possible scenario's of death and really was an eye opener.

I did see it and have friends who've studied there. A fascinating place to be sure.

 

[jilly]

Thanks RC, I missed that clip.

Since it was parked on the premises, sounds like the search of the X-5 was done under the house SW.


"The police had the authority to search the car under O'Brien. In O'Brien, the supreme court held that a warrant to search the premises of a rural duplex allowed the police to search a car parked 200 feet from the duplex, near an outbuilding on the property. Id. at 315-16. The court applied the "physical proximity" test, concluding that the search was authorized by the warrant because the car was close enough to the residence to have been a plausible repository for the objects named in the search warrant"

Geez you and RC are good! :clap:I'm just kickin back to watch!opcorn::eat: Gotta be on your toes around here!

 

[Just the Fax]

Did anyone get the opportunity to watch "the body farm?" It was on a few years ago and absolutely amazing to see how the studies were done. It is a program thru UT. The show actually showed the process in all possible scenario's of death and really was an eye opener.

Here it is...I know it's odd, but I would love to pay a visit.


http://video.nationalgeographic.com...-human-body-sci/human-body/body-farm-sci.html